My son is a high school junior, and a US citizen. We moved to India when he was a freshman in high school. He studied the IGCSE curriculum and earned all A and A* in the final board exams. As per the Cambridge website that’s a 4.0 GPA. He is doing IB curriculum now for 11th and 12th, with Math, Physics and Economics HL (equivalent to AP I am told). SAT score 1540. He does not have much EC’s other than some Math Olympiad medals, closely working with an orphanage and cancer hospice for the poor, raising funds. No leadership positions in school, other than the newspaper editor. He is planning to work with a renowned Physicist during the winter break, who has agreed to mentor him. What would be some good schools for him to apply. He wants to pursue Physics in college and likes UC Berkeley and Cornell, but not sure about the chances. Please suggest some reach, target and safety schools with good Physics programs. How can he increase his chances to get into a good school? Any suggestions on what he can do this summer?
What can you afford to pay? Have you run any of the Net Price Calculators for the places on the current list?
Do you own property in the US in a state where that would qualify him for in-state residence? A few states do have that policy?
Do students from his current school often end up in the US for college? If so, what advice has the college placement team there given you?
Your son is being educated outside the US, and his application will be evaluated with that in mind. There is no need to try to make him look like someone who was educated here. The ECs he has are fine.
Thank you for both responses. @happymomof1; no, we do not own any property in US anymore, so instate is out of question. We can probably afford $30k to $40k per year, so he would need to get some scholarships. He goes to an international school, so yes about 50 to 60% students go to US and another 30 to 40% go to UK/Singapore/Hong Kong etc for undergrad.The counselor has told him to do an internship, but internships for high school students are very rare here. Yes, if he can do some valuable work with the Physicist that might help, but we are not sure. Would doing a summer science program in US be worth it? They seem to be really expensive. He really loves Physics, but I do not see any similar programs for high school students in this part of the world.Does he have a chance to get into UCB or Cornell? What other schools can he look at?
There are dozens of strong physics programs so do not fixate on UCB or Cornell and do not obsess about him getting an internship. Your biggest problem is affordability so start there and don’t fall in love with a college you just cannot afford. Given that you don’t have an instate option (which is the typical safety school for a kid with a profile like yours) the idea of reach/match/safety is a bit of a time waster. Can your son get into University of Illinois (UIUC)? Most likely. Strong physics school. Can you afford it? I don’t know, I haven’t run your numbers, I don’t know if you are prepared to have your son go off to college and only come home during the summer (travel costs will quickly destroy any budget you have prepared), or NOT come home so he can work in the US.
Figure out what you all want- a US degree? And what you can afford- the absolute max. There are plenty of opportunities to study physics in the US. And he does not need to work with a renowned physicist as a HS kid to get into a strong university in the US.
$30k to $40k per year with no state residency in any state will limit the options at the more selective state universities, since they will be too expensive without top-level merit scholarships (which will be reach-level for any applicant). Stony Brook and Minnesota may barely be doable at around $40k, but these are among the less expensive state universities for non-resident students. Arizona, which is not that selective at the baseline, may have large merit scholarships.
Have you run the net price calculators on various universities of interest to see if need-based financial aid will be enough? Some of the more selective private universities like Cornell have only need-based financial aid but not merit scholarships.
There are scads of summer science programs, but doing one of them is not going to get him into any place that wouldn’t otherwise admit him. If he wants a summer back in the US, and thinks it would be fun to do some science here, then a summer program makes sense. I would recommend that he avoid anything that offers college credit because that will just be one more college transcript he has to track down every time he’s asked for all of his transcripts.
What put UCB and Cornell on his list so far? When you run their NPCs, does it look like either of those can be brought into your price range? Take a look at the automatic scholarship thrad at the top of the Financial Aid forum for ideas on places where your son’s stats would guarantee significant merit-based aid. Some of those places have good science programs. You also can run any of the college-matching search engines (I like College Navigator at nces.ed.gov)to find places that offer his major and are likely to fit your budget. Look for places where out-of-state tuition and fees are no more than $20,000 to leave a margin for housing, meals, books, transportation, etc.
Check each place’s policy about credit and/or advanced placement for IB scores. At some places, students who enroll after completing a full IB diploma start out in sophomore status and can finish easily in three years.
If he wants a big state school, a few are affordable. My favorite right now is Utah. They give first years big scholarships and then have a path to become state residents and get instate tuition. Arizona and ASU also have good scholarship money. There are tech schools, like Illinois Institute of Tech that give big scholarships (if you don’t mind living on the south side of Chicago).
However, at some schools, the physics major prerequisite sequence is long, so that can limit how many semesters early one can graduate. IB physics SL or HL is non-calculus based, so it will not give any advanced placement in physics for physics majors. In addition, the sophomore standing from IB diploma credit may not necessarily fulfill that many subject requirements (for general education as well as major).
In other words, do not rely on IB (or AP) credit enabling early graduation unless you have investigated how the credit may apply to both credit unit requirements and subject requirements for the student’s major and general education.
Thank you for all the advice. I am running the price calculators now. UIUC seems like a really good option, thank you for the suggestion. I will also check out the other schools mentioned. He only likes Berkeley and Cornell because we have lived in those places, and they are excellent schools with excellent Physics programs. We just started out so will explore more. CC and NCES are both very helpful, I am exploring both. Thank you again for the suggestions.
completing a full IB diploma start out in sophomore status and can finish easily in three years.<<<<<<<<
That Is very major dependant. Sure you can ditch some fluff but solid classes, not so much. My local 4 yr gives 30 credits off the bat for the iBD. That doesn’t help all majors especially ones where taking credit for physics/chem/calc would be foolhardy.
Berkeley and any of the major UC campuses are probably not affordable – for an out of state student the costs are well over $50,000 per year, and there is little to no financial aid. A better bet would be focusing on private universities and publics that are less popular (and less expensive) for out of state students.
40k will cover international tuition, room and board in the UK and they will only look at his test scores for the most part. Cambridge and St. Andrews are the highest ranked undergraduate physics programs.
Everything is fine, but your budget will be his major hurdle.
He cannot attend a UC for undergrad - if he wants Berkeley, he’ll need to go there for graduate school. (It’s over 60K a year with no financial aid for OOS applicants). Anyway it’s much better for grad school
Run the NPC on Cornell but it’s well-known in India so he’ll be competing with tens of thousands of IB-educated Indian kids with similar profiles. He’ll have an edge since he’s actually a US citizen but he should consider it a reach even if his stats make him competitive.
Canada and the UK will recruit him solely on stats - UWaterloo, UBC, UToronto, McGill, Cambridge, St Andrews, Edimburgh, Durham, Imperial all seem like no-brainers for him.
If he wants a more purposefully residential, “whole student” experience, he can also focus on residential universities in the US and that’s where you’ll need to be mindful of cost restrictions.
UIUC is a good suggestion, as are UMN Twin Cities and ASU Barrett.
Utah is a good safety, as would be Lawrence (very good for Physics).
Look into LACs, where top undergrads get to do research (including their own research) and have access to labs since there are no grad students. Top-notch undergrad teaching. In particular, Harvey Mudd, Reed, Grinnell, Carleton, Swarthmore, Williams.
Also look into Rice and Case Western Reserve.
Get a Fiske Guide and/or a Princeton Review’s best colleges, and start reading!
Not sure why UIUC would be a good suggestion; its financial aid is bad for Illinois residents and presumably worse (or none) for non-residents, and it is not known for large merit scholarships.
Yes, but it’d be within budget for 40K a year* and is very good in the sciences; relatively to its prestige, physics is very strong yet not as oversubscribed as CS or Engineering.
*Current COA, including books, travel, and insurance, is about 47K, so let’s assume 48K next year. That’s 40K from parents, 5.5K loans, and 2.5K in work savings/work study.
If budget is closer to 30K then UIUC becomes unaffordable.
It might be worth looking at Michigan State also if he wants that big uni atmosphere. They are well regarded in some area of physics and depending on his grades/GPA there may be merit based $$.
To be a newspaper editor is a highly regarded leadership position (EC). My younger daughter was an expat at an American International school when she was going through the college application process. She was the editor at her school paper, IB student (not all HL), and didn’t have 1540 SAT, but was the SAL for her class. She got into Cornell ED. I don’t do chance, but I think your kid could get into both Cornell and Berkeley based on his stats. I think the main concern is if you could afford it without FA.
Here is my personal view…if you are paying full fare, I would choose a private school over public because many public schools are facing budget cut. If you live in CA and could get in-state tuition I would pick Berkeley over Cornell, otherwise Cornell would be a better deal when it comes to facilities and course selections.
@Smithfamily, I would agree that your son can’t begin making a list until you’ve clarified your financial position. Many private colleges and universities guarantee to meet full demonstrated need, which means they determine how much you should be able to contribute (your estimated family contribution or EFC) then make up the rest in grants, loans and part-time work opportunities. The net price calculators (NPCs) will give you a good idea of your EFC. They’re not perfect and there can be extenuating circumstances, but the NPC will give you a starting point so that you can know if a school like Cornell is within the realm of possibility financially.
If you try a few NPCs and the EFCs that you get are workable, then, great, your son can put together a reach/match/safety list of schools that offer need-based aid.
However, if your EFC means you will not get enough need-based aid to attend a need-only school then you need to look at schools that offer merit aid. As a general statement, most big-name selective schools, like Cornell and the rest of the Ivy League, do not offer merit aid, period.
There’s a lot of information on this board about merit aid opportunities. Many of the schools may not have high name recognition in Asia, but they may still provide a good to excellent education and a stepping stone to graduate studies. So keep an open mind.
State universities are a case by case situation. Some provide need based and/or merit aid to out of state students, some do not. You have to research them one by one.
We are also Americans living abroad. Again as a general statement I would say that colleges like American expats. They can bring diversity of experience to the campus community without language and visa issues. In essence, your son can use his life experience in India as an EC in itself and enlarge on the perspective in his essays, recommendations and resume. (As a newspaper editor he should be good at spotlighting the lede!)
