<p>That all depends. Was this student applying to be a Navy Seal? In that case, swimming is essential and the requirement shouldn’t have been changed.</p>
<p>The difference between those cases is you are picking disabilities that affect non-essential skills. Do you also agree that a blind person should be able to get qualified as a airline pilot? Should a quadrapeglic be allowed to train as an astronaut? Of course not, because those are essential skills.</p>
<p>If a person cannot do math, should he still allowed to study engineering? No, because math is the basis of engineering.</p>
<p>A political science graduate focuses extensively on world issues and understanding language is very important to working with many cultures and many different people. The school decided that language was essential and wasn’t willing to waive it, and I don’t disagree with that decision.</p>
<p>I don’t agree Arabrab that Twisted got what she deserved. Not at all. But I think this thread - expectations of a college disabilities office for Aspergers - is saying that the inconsistencies and spectrum nature of Aspergers makes it difficult to assess what those accommodations should be considering that accommodations of any kind are intended to level the playing field, not tilt it. So… despite a failed class and a hit to the GPA, would it be wiser for Twisted to take foreign language classes throughout summer when there are no other academic conflicts? Would that arrangement benefit her more so than a scribe or some other tutoring (which would, in my opinion, only compound the sensory issues often inherent in kids with Aspergers)? And if that’s the case - that summer school might yield success - does that mean that accommodations are warranted just because the schedule in general might be pushing the limit of what is reasonable for a student. </p>
<p>I think it is likely to take a kid with Asperger’s longer to graduate than it might for a kid without academic/social struggles. Does that make it unfair and we should be guaranteeing the speed at which one gets something done? Is expecting or requiring less become the answer? But as far as this thread’s title goes, I think it’s important to not turn this into a debate of whether some kids are more or less worthy than other kids. Comparing a blind student in an art appreciation class to a kid with a very unspecific condition in a language class is not apples to apples.</p>
<p>What I think has been the most interesting point brought up so far is the idea that we require kids who are very bad at advocating for themselves (as part and parcel of the condition) to advocate for themselves. Seems to me that a good place to start would be having ad litem advocates for these students that does not include the parent per say. Someone that counsels the student on exactly how to navigate and facilitates that navigation. Frankly, from all I’ve known and learned about Aspergers suggests that this would be an excellent move to create, if nothing else, a far better understanding of a disorder that is seemingly invisible.</p>
<p>To Missy’s point: There is a mountain. If you can’t bulldoze through it (the shortest option) or go over the top (the next shortest option) than you may have to go around it and yes, that will take longer. But if it is deemed essential that you conquer that mountain, it just may take you twice as long as someone else, but you can still conquer it. An obese swimmer, a blind artist (not impossible by any stretch, I remind all) or a blind pilot (also not an impossibility as several 20/20s and 60 minutes have shown) is not really the same thing as a specific requirement that qualifies you for a specific major in college. But IMO, a mountain can be gotten around, one way or another, and a dragon can be slayed; it really just comes down to approach.</p>
<p>Um, well, given as how the student was so obese that he could barely walk, no he wasn’t applying to be a Navy Seal. He was trying to get a degree from an LAC.</p>
<p>I just wanted to give those of you without Aspies in your lives an idea of just one of the issues regarding foreign language instruction. Aspies are very literal. A friend was driving her kids around and it was chilly. She threw a sweatshirt to her Aspie son in the back seat and said, “Put this over your head.” She looked back there and he was holding the sweatshirt over his head.</p>
<p>Think of the different way of saying things in a foreign language- if potato in French is literally “apples of the earth” and baked potato is something like “apples of the earth baked in their dressing gowns” what is a very literal thinker to make of that? What is a person like Temple Grandin who thinks in pictures to make of that?</p>
<p>It’s pretty fascinating. I always think that people on the spectrum could absorb a foreign language if they moved to a foreign country, but it’s the part about being taught it that’s the problem.</p>
<p>Modadunn-- I think you bring up a really excellent point in your last post…</p>
<p>perhaps one of the accomodations for some with aspergers might actually be that they get an advocate to assist them in negotiating all of the terrain ahead of them? It might be just such a great idea, really.</p>
<p>The one thing my own D had as a strength with her dysgraphia was just that she understood what she needed so well and why she needed it that every teacher, once they’d spoken with her, was always willing to give her her accomodations. On the rare occaisons when she ran into trouble, we always knew it wasn’t “about her,” if you know what I mean.</p>
<p>But, those occaisons were so brutal that she did choose a lesser ranked school with a reputation for ease of access just because she was sick of the argument. This is not always an option.</p>
<p>For a kid whose main issue has to do with advocation? Maybe that should BE an accomodation. Good thought.</p>
<p>As Missypie noted a couple of messages above, Aspies are literal minded, and generally do better with concrete rather than generalized or abstract advice. So, if the above advice was directed toward Twisted or another person with Asperger’s, it might better be phrased:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This observation also applies to Mildred’s well-meaning comment to Twisted that Twisted ought to think of her future. I doubt Twisted could figure out how to apply that advice to her current predicament. As someone a bit spectrumy myself, I know I couldn’t figure out how thinking about her future was relevant to Twisted’s situation.</p>
<p>That is the best advice I have heard on this thread or the other one that Twisted started. I don’t write as eloquently but that is exactly my feelings.</p>
<p>CF-- you (and Missy) are correct in that if you are very literally minded, using a lot of metaphors like I do might not necessarily work. My daughter is really really bad at math. So much so that she has to take two remedial math classes before she can take the one class she needs to actually pass the requirement. She is taking it over the summer primarily because she will benefit from a singular focus and because it is so mentally taxing for her, it will probably feel like she is taking multiple classes and so to load this class into a full semester is not a good use of her mental facilities to really “get” the material to progress. </p>
<p>The more I think about it, the more I like the advocacy role, just like those with Dysgraphia (my brother is one) might have a scribe (although he got through college with no accommodations and was telling me a little about what that was like and how it’s affected him but that’s a whole other story). Point: I think what becomes difficult to assess for disability offices is the discrepancy between some classes and others. How is it that a kid can be a wiz at computer programming but cant get through freshman English? I think the offices do get the imbalance but not in a practical or applicable way. They want to have a clear list: scribe, books on tape etc to apply to each and every class, but I just don’t think Aspie’s present this way. So its a constant tweaking whereas I think these offices prefer a one and done (one visit, accommodations done) approach.</p>
<p>I can appreciate however how far these offices have come in the past several years because frankly, it used to be you could barely get preferential seating for a kid with ADHD and they were mostly better able to help a kid with dyslexia etc. There is a learning curve and a discrepancy in what they can reasonably do and what they know to do. And that things are never so cut and dry with a kid with either ADHD or Aspergers, I have faith that if they would be willing to work with parents (or other advocates - which is what I would prefer to see happen), they would learn so much and increase so many student’s success. I have confidence that they will catch up, but what is most frustrating (and disappointing) is the idea that it won’t be soon enough for today’s students to not have to struggle through. But just today I looked at my daughter’s first college website on behalf of another parent to see how things have changed and frankly, I was amazed at the process and procedures in place now that were non-existent and unheard of in 2003. How well they’re implemented I have no idea, but the fact that they didn’t even exist tells you something.</p>
<p>PS… my mountain analogy was more directed to a school’s choice to make foreign language proficiency required for a major or maybe it’s “cell hell” for a bio major or some really hard math class for an econ kid. They are a mountain you have to conquer one way or another. So not really directed at anyone in particular.</p>
<p>As Missypie has lately been discovering, colleges really, really are not set up to deal with advocates for Aspies. Not only do they not provide advocates, but they won’t even talk to advocates. They expect the Asperger’s students to just-- well, to not have Asperger’s.</p>
<p>In a similar perversity, students with ADD or Asperger’s are often granted the accommodation of extended time, use of a keyboard and/or a separate, quiet room for tests. But at a lot of colleges, the student has to arrange for this for every class, for every separate test, a week ahead of the scheduled test. In other words, a person who struggles with executive function and organization has to be more organized than a neurotypical (NT) student. The NT student just has to study for the exam, walk in and take it, but the disorganized ADD or Asperger’s student has to remember to go to the disabilities office to get the form, then go to the professor’s office hours to deliver it, for every single exam. If that seems like a simple matter to you, you don’t have executive function deficits.</p>
<p>I have to wonder about colleges that have psychology departments that employ experts doing research into autism and asperger’s, especially those with professors who have published on the topic. If a student were to find an advocate who is one of these professors, could they ask the advocate to meet with them and the disabilities office to work out a plan? Anyone with this type of experience?</p>
<p>I agree, CF. But as I understand it, there aren’t advocates currently within the system, held accountable to the student and the university. You either hire an outside tutor/coach, the parents steps in or the student meets with the one and done type of office. However, even in 2003, once D had accomodations for extended time or quiet time, she did not have to establish something for each exam, so that seems pretty school specific as well. Some schools are just more accommodating than others and it would behoove anyone with processing deficits to really ask some hard questions before accepting admission. So, in light that the shoe is just about to go on the other foot for the current seniors, knowing what you do now, what would you have asked a year ago based on your experience to date? Perhaps by pulling together a concrete list there will be less surprises for next year’s freshman. I do think it is imperative for parents who have been advocating and helping their child, use a very honest and direct approach to reveal what roles they’ve been playing in their kid’s life so they can honestly review where that space will be empty next year.</p>
<p>Modadunn, you’re right that some schools make exam accommodations easy, while others do not. But the system I outlined is, sadly, by no means rare. That’s definitely something this year’s seniors should investigate before picking a school, if they envision needing that kind of accommodation.</p>
<p>I suggest that parents of seniors with Aspergers take a good hard look at their kids before making the family decision of where the student should go to college. Ignore the people saying your kid is an adult now and shouldn’t need your help. Don’t suppress your intuition, when it tells you your kid is different and can’t do X or Y without help. Don’t compare your child to neurotypicals. If you have been functioning as your child’s executive function while he/she is in high school, it’s wishful thinking to believe that your child will suddenly be able, in college, to do what s/he couldn’t do in high school.</p>
<p>Don’t ignore social and life skills. Are you confident that your kid will be able to keep up his/her hygiene without your nagging? Will s/he remember to take medication? To get refills?</p>
<p>This is off the top of my head. We really need a thread: Advice for Parents of Aspergers '10s from Parents of Aspergers '09s.</p>
<p>Cardinal Fang- I think what you have said can be applied to any issue your child had in HS. My son has severe LD and ADD which make reading, writing and memorization extremely difficult. He would not have survived college spanish. He got lucky that while his college has a 2 yr foreign language requirement his major is exempt. He is entitled to extra time on exams, a quiet room to take them and a notetaker and extra and priority sessions in the tutoring center. He has rarely made use of the services. He has terrible executive functioning and to use any of the accommodations he has to ask for them. Like someone else mentioned the test in a quiet room requires a request form to be filled out and turned into the disabilities office one week before the exams. Not happening for a kid with ADD on his own. This semester he has a professor who saw that my son was eligible for accommodations and gives them without my son having to ask. 99% of the professors are not going to come and ask you if you need extra time. My son has had lots of ups and downs. He is lucky his major is small and the professors willing to overlook his weaknesses and celebrate his strengths. All throughout his elementary, middle and HS he had me and a learning skills coach to make sure everything got done. I thought my son wasn’t ready for college and I was right. He lost his merit aid due to an impulsive decision that has cost him a lot of money. It is 2nd semester of his jr year and he is finally getting it. He still has poor time management but it is better. He still loses his keys. He still can’t write a decent paper. But he is making progress at his own pace. He still doesn’t brush his teeth or do his laundry. He still doesn’t remember to take his med. His standard line is “my Bad” and he feels bad and promises to do it differently next time. This thread reminds me that sometimes I expect things of him that he is never going to be able to deliver. The person who ends up frustrated is me.
On the same note if your child has suffered from depression and even if it is under control going far from home can be a disaster. Even if you kid is a 4.O all AP honors student maybe going away is not the best.</p>
<p>This is excellent advice. As a parent of a neurotypical kid, college is an adjustment on every level. Lots of kids who never had social or academic concerns in high school get bogged down with an issue or two, especially that first semester. Just knowing where to be and when to be there was hugely stressful for my kid because he really had no idea where anything was or how long it would take him to get there. And this is a small LAC! It really reminded me of the switch from lower school to middle when they changed classes and used a locker. Slightly similar thing happened in 9th grade early on as well - new building change. So I should have recognized the pattern and appreciated how racked he would get trying to put together a life for himself. Again, he is very neurotypical (whatever “typical” generally means), but had I thought more about how he was in transition etc, I would have perhaps reminded him of how it might be for him. There is no doubt that even a successful first semester can be a rocky one as well.</p>
<p>Frankly, you should probably all get together and write a book of advice and if someone is an EdD, you ought to start to consider how to make the disability services work for kids with aspergers. They are really set up mostly to deal with dyslexics, and so it sounds to me as if you are getting the same kind of accomodations as a kid who has entirely other things in the way…fwiw.</p>
<p>just one example: dyslexics, dysgraphics, etc…by the time they are college age are able to advocate for themselves, no problem. The disability offices are there to give accomodations and to deal with the rare prof who doesn’t ‘get’ it…this is very rare these days. But, if the main problem is self advocacy? Then that requires an entirely other set of accomodations, imho.</p>
My daughter is really really bad at math. So much so that she has to take two remedial math classes before she can take the one class she needs to actually pass the requirement. She is taking it over the summer primarily because she will benefit from a singular focus and because it is so mentally taxing for her, it will probably feel like she is taking multiple classes and so to load this class into a full semester is not a good use of her mental facilities to really “get” the material to progress. </p>