"Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" movie

<p>For those of you who have seen this documentary or understand its basic premise, what do you think? Do you feel that our pursuit of scientific knowledge and understanding is being suppressed? Are we (high school students) being coaxed into something that may or may not be true? Did you like the Berlin Wall analogy and was it effective? Any other thoughts our comments to get an intelligent conversation going...</p>

<p>Not really, because at least at my school (and I go to a public school), students were allowed to present alternative theories of things such as evolution. Plus, we were never told "this is fact", we were allowed to openly criticize and defend it.</p>

<p>Disclaimer: I haven't seen the movie, I'm only going off of what I know about it.</p>

<p>Intelligent design the newest and least offensive euphumism for Creationism and Christianist dogma. It is as integral a part of biology as astrology is to astronomy. And it deserves to be taught exactly like we teach astrology; not at all. It is the battle between reason and the fallacy of ignorance, namely that all an established theory fails to explain must fit into my own theory. Ben Stein, a man I held in quite high regard intellectually, has fallen dramatically in my estimation.</p>

<p>Zarathustra pretty much nailed it right there. Intelligent design is not science, and it should not be taught in science courses. If we did that, we might as well start offering up for scientific analysis the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin.</p>

<p>So instead, all we should be taught is something that we don't even know is fact?</p>

<p>I say, give us all the theories and let us decide for ourselves what exactly is fact.</p>

<p>Grace, it's IMPOSSIBLE to present all theories. We have literally 10s of thousands if not more creation theories in the world. It would take an entire class to present them all.</p>

<p>I'm all for AP Creation, :D. It would be just like AP Comparative Government...except not.</p>

<p>So maybe don't present all of them specifically, but present them in groups? </p>

<p>ie....Evolution, Creationism (this would encompass Christian theory, Native American creationism, etc...basically any Divine Creation theory)...those are the biggest two, aren't they?</p>

<p>I agree with you that it would be difficult...but since there's no theory that we KNOW is fact, I don't think it's right for them to say "this is what we think is closest, so we're just going to teach that."</p>

<p>^absolute garbage. You completely destroy the meaning of "science" if you teach creationism, which is just another substitute for "you gotta have faith!"</p>

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I agree with you that it would be difficult...but since there's no theory that we KNOW is fact, I don't think it's right for them to say "this is what we think is closest, so we're just going to teach that."

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<p>We should also stop teaching general relativity as fact in university! Recent estimates say that there's only a 99.5% chance that it's correct! I think that .5% gives some room for intelligent relativity!</p>

<p>Intelligent design does not give an "alternative theory" to evolution, precisely because it has no practical arguments against evolution. Christians are just sad that they're not right, so they take the fact that we don't KNOW (hey, it's just a THEORY; and if that doesn't work, WERE YOU THERE?) to make room so they can work their own ideology into science. You might as well change your religion to incorporate science, honey, because science isn't going to make way for religion.</p>

<p>On a side note, I was actually going to support the movie idea until I saw that it was a promotion for intelligent design. Public schools (and private alike) hinder the minds of students. I know many incredibly intelligent people who dropped out or went to homeschooling because public/private schools did not meet their intellectual needs.</p>

<p>Nobel</a> Prize Winners Hate School (Learn in Freedom!)</p>

<p>No, they pick the one that's generally accepted. Many things can't be proven that are taught everyday, such as many psychology concepts. We just have to take what is most commonly accepted and teach that. And teaching based on religion is for a different class, not biology.</p>

<p>Boy, phuriku, piccolo....you've really cut Christians to the quick...we're just mad because we're not right.</p>

<p>Let me ask you a question...if we didn't think it was right, why would we believe it in the first place?</p>

<p>I don't want to turn this into a religious debate, except to remind you that you need to at least form your argument in a respectful manner. Otherwise, I'll have to report you. Just a forewarning.</p>

<p>romanigypsyeyes-a very good point, and thank you for wording it so considerately. :) I personally don't have a problem with them just teaching evolution...in fact, that's what I was taught. The problem for me comes in when the teacher demands that it's fact and that there's no wiggle room at all.</p>

<p>"Theory" in science doesn't mean it's just an idea some guy thought up. Theories have to be tested over and over to be accepted by the scientific community.</p>

<p>Besides which, gravity is a theory too. Do fundamentalist Christians not believe in gravity? And if they do, why can't they concede that evolution may be the best explanation?</p>

<p>You can't teach Intelligent Design because there's no way you can ever prove the existence of an intelligent being, and therefore it's not science.</p>

<p>Creationism belongs in religion class, evolution in science class. </p>

<p>Besides, 999/1000 "creationism" classes are based on the Christian, Bible-based version of the story. I don't think there's any classes that are telling their students that the world was carried on the back of a turtle, now, are there?</p>

<p>^Zamzam, it's called Intelligent Falling. </p>

<p>A friend saw the movie and basically derided it for contradicting itself - saying that Intelligent Design isn't creationism 2.0 in the first half of the movie while making the claim that God had to have been the source of life during the second half. </p>

<p>Also, he made mention of how the movie criticized the court battles in which creationism also loses; the movie makes the plea to have the evidence make the decision. The ironic thing is that the movie doesn't present any.</p>

<p>Okay, I'm really not trying to be facetious, but this has always bothered me about Evolution...if you don't believe in Creationism, where did Evolution start?</p>

<p>Or, for that matter, how did the Big Bang happen? From my perspective, it just makes sense that something has to be infinite. Otherwise, you just have to keep explaining where the last link in the chain came from.</p>

<p>Oh, and PS:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/27/science/27expelled.html?_r=1&ref=science&oref=slogin%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/27/science/27expelled.html?_r=1&ref=science&oref=slogin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>But then if you believe in Intelligent Design, who designed the original "intelligent" being? Just that it always existed can be used for evolution too.</p>

<p>Personally, I'm not denying that God exists; I don't think I can know either way. There's a significant possibility, I think, that some sort of "bigger thing" that started the Big Bang, something that came before. </p>

<p>However, that's something I want to explore in a spiritual setting. I recognize that what belongs in a science classroom are things that can be tested, proved, and disproved. There are thousands upon thousands of science who believe in God and evolution at the same time, without any conflict. </p>

<p>I think Ralph Waldo Emerson really says this well. "The religion that is afraid of science dishonors god and commits suicide.” Religious beliefs should be changed to fit the truth, rather than the other way around (which is what I think this movie is trying to do).</p>

<p>I didn't actually see the movie, but I agree with you to some extent. I think abortion and gay marriage should be legal, even though they both fly in the face of my religion. Know why? Because we're not a theocracy. :) I am taking a Bible As Literature course as my senior English elective in my Public HS, but it's not taught from a religious perspective and I'm actually rather enjoying viewing the Bible from a secular standpoint.</p>