Experienced negotiating financial aid? I need help

Paying for College
1

<p>The wooing has begun. Because of my D's "profile", she is very attractive to most schools. Her short list consists mainly of schools which offer no merit aid and they (Ivys) are beginning to woo her. There are a few highly rated LACs which she visited (and is sure she does not want to attend) who are wooing her with EXCELLENT packages.</p>

<p>My dilemma is this. I will somehow make our FAFSA EFC happen. I don't know how, but I trust we will find a way. If I can improve on that and leave D debt free at graduation, it would be a good thing. My natural inclination is to shoot for D's top list and hope they want her bad enough to offer better than our EFC. The negotiator in me is inclined to work some other deals, and use them as leverage to sweeten the deal.</p>

<p>So do we pursue offers at schools where D has no real interest in going? Would a full ride offer (and in one case, 3 years of grad school) from top-rated LACs really have any effect on my negotiations with Ivys? </p>

<p>I'm not much of a "player". I believe intentions based in honesty and integrity usually are fulfilled. And those based on deceit and greed usually don't. (Yes, I am proudly from California). If I can get my heart into working this financial aid thing, I know I can succeed. I just don't know how hard I should work it.</p>

<p>Any expert advice is welcome.</p>

2

<p>so she has a short list of schools which meet 100% of need but no merit aid- and another list of schools that offer merit - but which she isn't interested?
My thoughts are - if you can pay the EFC- pay it.
It is enough to have an offer from a hyper competitive school that she wants to attend- to then also expect them to offer more than EFC- IMO is unrealistic.
However since their aid package will probably be made up of loans grants and workstudy- you could ask for more grants instead of more loans.But I don't think they give more than the EFC( if not merit)</p>

3

<p>The ivies will are based on need will most likely not negotiate a merit package . Think about it, most students accepted to the ivies probably could get merit money at a school with merit aid. </p>

<p>Brown stands firm on the fact that they do not negotiate packages.
Wesleyan stands firm that they do not negotiate aid (they are very straight forward in telling you that if money is an issue, then you need to go with the $)</p>

<p>I know when we went to info sessions at Amherst their FA people stated that they do not negotiate because they meet 100% of your demonstrated need.</p>

<p>When negotiating aid or requesting a financial review, most schools will want a documented reason as to why you need a financial review. </p>

<p>Some schools will give a financial review upon presentation of another schools package and the reason for a review (school "a" gave us more money is not going to fly). I knew off the bat, that I wasn't negotiating a bunch of schools because that would have been disingenuious, so we did request a financial review between daughters top 2 choices: Ivy vs. top lac (neither school gave the "overall best" aid package of the 7 schools she was admitted to).</p>

<p>The 2 schools were very similar and in the end the first choice school did meet the package of the second choice school. She would have been equally happy at either school and had the school not met the package I probably would have bit the bullet to make it work. Unless you are low income, I don't think you should look at your child going to an ivy with the mind set of graduating debt free (as this concept is very unlikely).</p>

4

<p>We had full rides and other big packages from places like Rice and Mt Holyoke. They had no effect on the Ivies. That said, there was a fair amount of variation in the Ivy offers. I emailed a note to our Harvard FA contact and included a few of the better offer letters from other schools. I told him I fully understood that H didn't match offers, but I wondered if they might have missed something in reviewing our case. He was very gracious and offered to take it back to committee. They came back a few thousand better and as good as the best of the other (need based) offers (within a thousand). If you really want to come out debt free and don't make under $40K, look at your other schools and forget the Ivies. MHC was particularly agressive with their offer, as was Rice.</p>

5

<p>I would echo the previous advice. The prestige of the Ivies is likely to cost quite a lot. They reject many great candidates and have no reason to alter their no-merit policies. There are a lot of school in the top 25 which offer merit awards for exceptional students.</p>

<p>Don't expect to be able to "negotiate", but there is almost always some reason to ask for re-consideration due to special circumstances.</p>

6

<p>I also want to throw a bit of reality check- wooing doesn't mean a diamond ring
My niece was "wooed" by Ivies- lots of material and invitations sent her way- didn't result in an admittance</p>

7

<p>I agree with Sybbie that Ivies are less likely to negotiate, though some negotiate among themselves. </p>

<p>Still, it may wise to ask for a second look by Ivies such as Brown, even if they don't negotiate. I heard from Brown that they would not match offers, but when I questioned why their offer was considerably lower, it turned out they hadn't taken into account our medical expenses. When I sent them the necessary documentation, it made a significant difference. If I had never asked the question, we would have had to take the first offer or go elsewhere.</p>

8

<p>What is your daughter thinks? How she wants to handle finance issues?
My belief is that by trying to shield our children from making decisions based on full picture we do not help them to become better adults.
I have been having great fun watching how my D is growing though this application process. She has received some merit offers and has been admitted to several colleges that she really likes. She is well aware of our financial possibilites and knows that decision will be hers to make, including evaluating financial aid and deciding how much debt she is willing to take.
I feel your angst to make best possible decision.
Congratulations- it sounds like you raised very smart and intelligent kid!</p>

9

<p>Some schools will provide 100% of need (you still pay your EFC) and sweeten the deal by making the "student self-help" portion all grants - instead of loans and work-study. (Usually, students are still expected to chip in a summer work contribution.) I think Bowdoin does this for NMF. Does your daughter already have an written offer of admittance and financial aid in hand from the LAC's - or is this a verbal offer?</p>

10

<p>isn't gambling nor is buying a car. However each party can have a winning hand if they know something about the other party and understand their own strengths and weakness's</p>

<p>For instance:
A male applying to LAC could have a better chance of admittance and possibly aid than a female.
A female applying to a technical school has the advantage.
An URM would an big advantage over male/female.
Having good scores, recs, GPAs, have greater weight at a less than a top tier school than a top tier.
Region of your home compared to the school's location.
Athletics or some other hook.
Your hand strengthens considerably when you have an acceptance and $ offer from a similar tiered school.</p>

<p>Your D is also "negotiating" in being accepted. Expand this concept into $. You will have two opportunities: 1. Initial application and FAFSA. 2. Acceptance/award. As the Knight guarding the grail says, "chose wisely."</p>

11

<p>Thanks to all for your advice. What I've learned from this thread is to not expect better than our EFC, but to definitely ask for review if we have disparate offers. After discussing with D, we will not lead on any schools she's not interested in, but will carefully consider and compare the offers when they come in. To clarify D's "profile", she is a high-achieving leader, low income, first gen, and URM. A pretty picture, we've been told. Now if we can just get the apps submitted!</p>

12

<p>yomama
your daughter may already know about this but
<a href="http://www.gmsp.org/(hlgotx4501vyxef0xjilbryu)/default.aspx%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.gmsp.org/(hlgotx4501vyxef0xjilbryu)/default.aspx&lt;/a>

[quote]
The Gates Millennium Scholars (GMS), funded by a grant from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, was established in 1999 to provide outstanding low income African American, American Indian/Alaska Natives, Asian Pacific Islander American*, and Hispanic American students with an opportunity to complete an undergraduate college education in any discipline area of interest. Continuing GMS Scholars may request funding for a graduate degree program in one of the following discipline areas: education, engineering, library science, mathematics, public health or science. The goal of GMS is to promote academic excellence by providing thousands of outstanding students, who have significant financial need, the opportunity to reach their full potential.

[/quote]
</p>

13

<p>Yomama,</p>

<p>I believe that your daughter is going to get some wonderful offers. Before the offers come in (or you send out the applications), you need to have a realistic conversation about how much you can afford to pay, how much debt you are willing to take on, and your expectations of your daughter in being an active participant in the financing of her education. Doesn't make sense for her to have her heart set on a school and when the offer comes, you find that you cannot afford it.</p>

<p>Go into the process with the mind set that no one is going to negotiate and if someone does, it's gravy.</p>

<p>Keep in mind the basics of financial aid :</p>

<p>Cost of attendance - EFC (which includes parents contrib.+ student contrib) = demonstrated need </p>

<p>The EFC increases each year: the parents EFC increases in prortion to thier increase of income and assets and the student's EFC increases each year because the college beleives they have the potential to earn more (and the school does expect them to be active participants in the financing of their education).</p>

<p>Schools calculated demonstrated need in a variety of ways:
assuming your daughter gets into a school that meets 100% demonstrated need (remember that not all schools do):</p>

<p>there will be the self help component which consists of :</p>

<p>Loans and work-study<a href="keep%20in%20mind%20that%20these%20amounts%20increase%20each%20year">i</a>* ssholarship/grant aid- which does not have to be repaid</p>

<p>Your daughter would most likely be eligible for subsidized stafford loans (the gov't pays the interest while D is in college).</p>

<p>Stafford Loans allow dependent undergraduates to borrow up to
$2,625 their freshman year
$3,500 their sophomore year
$5,500 for each remaining year </p>

<p>Perkins Loan , which is awarded to undergraduate and graduate students with exceptional financial need. This is a campus-based loan program, with the school acting as the lender using a limited pool of funds provided by the federal government.</p>

<p>Work study- She'll use this money for incidental expenses.</p>

<p>the grant gift aid portion would consist of </p>

<p>Pell grants (if eligible)
SEOG (if eligible and available at your school)
school scholarships/grants</p>

<p>Even if your daughter should get a "free ride" in terms of an academic scholarship it is important to know up front the terms of the scholarship.</p>

<p>Some merit money lets the students "ease" into their requirements in stages (first year 2.7 gpa, second year 3.0, etc) while other schools may give scholarships that are really onerous for first year students to maintain (3.5/3.7). </p>

<p>College is not high school so even the most stellar student is not going to have a walk in the park maintaining the GPA they had in high school freshman year. </p>

<p>You want to know what happens if she doesn't meet the academic requirement (some kids have hard times adjusting, students get sick and miss class, some courses at some schools are weed out courses where the curve can be brutal). Some schools give students a "probationary period and don't lose the scholarship immediately and others do not".</p>

<p>JMHO, but I don't beleive that there is anything such as a 4 year guaranteed scholarship because they all come with conditions. Unless the condition is that you just have to pass all of your courses, you need to know up front what happens if the conditions are not met.</p>

<p>If possible you should look at financial aid section of the common data set of each school your daughter is applying to as you will find out the average amount of debt each student graduates with.</p>

<p>A word to the wise: while wooing is nice (and who does not like to be wooed, like EK mentioned every woo does not result in a ring). It is one thing to be shown the world through rose colored glasses and another thing to see the world inthe cold light of day.</p>

<p>In negotiating any package, you want to know how you if some sembalance of it is going to hold up over the entire 4 years your D will be in school. Yes, some schools will meet your offer to get you in the door but you may not get the same type of package in years 2, 3 and 4.</p>

<p>A question about packages came up a while ago so I am providing a link in hopes it will give you some insight. (sorry that this was so long)</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=110122&highlight=barnard%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=110122&highlight=barnard&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

14

<p>Our next door neighbor used to be in the business of helping kids apply to schools. He gave us some advice which turned out to be very accurate - he said to go in person, explain your situation with competing offers, and why this school (the one you are visiting) is really your first choice (assuming it is). This definitely happened for us (As nice as our neighbor is, I thought the trip was going to be a complete waste of time - as it turned out it completely changed the situation with a substantial increase from school A when they saw the very, very compelling offer from competing school B - both schools, by the way, are in the "elite" category by any one's standards - don't assume anything!).</p>