<p>Does anyone have experience with the L&S Computer Science program or know someone who has been in it?</p>
<p>To preface this, I've already read a lot of threads and official information from Berkeley's website about the difference between EECS and L&S CS. I've already heard people saying it is a water-downed program, that it is inferior to EECS, and that it isn't accredited. I even went to the presentation for L&S CS done by Barbara Hightower yesterday during Cal Day, and I remember two of the questions were, "Why did the professor who lectured during the previous presentation imply that L&S CS is an inferior program?" and "Is it possible to transfer out of L&S CS?" </p>
<p>Now with all this negative information about the program, I've also read about how the CS portion of the program is nearly identical to that of EECS, the opportunities for research, internships, grad school, and jobs are the same if you plan to do something CS related, and that it is easier to double major doing the L&S program. </p>
<p>But all of this just seems to me like hypotheticals that don't really tell what the program is really like. I would find it really helpful if a former or current L&S CS student could come forward and share some of his or her experiences. Have you ever felt like an inferior? Are people condescending towards you, especially EECS people and professors? Do you have a double major? </p>
<p>I’m neither a CS nor an EECS major, so I’m just throwing this out there… But why would L&S CS majors feel like inferiors? Especially when they have the highest average starting salary? If there is any attitude towards CS majors, it would most likely be envy or jealousy, not disapproval.</p>
<p>Not to be rude, but I have seen those statistics before. And it has been brought up before by sakky I believe that those stats were conducted before the major was removed from impacted status, therefore the people whose salaries those statistics represent are the people who were already at the top of the pool of aspiring Computer Science majors applying for the major during Sophomore or Junior year in the College of Letters and Science. The mediocre or lower end GPA folks were simply weeded out. </p>
<p>In contrast, EECS people were admitted directly to the major and are stuck there unless they transfer out. The so called “engineering trap” applies to this because, if the person ends up doing badly in EECS and wants to transfer out, they can’t because no one wants to take them due to their low GPAs. So the low end of the EECS pool are represented in those statistics, therefore deflating the average salary.</p>
<p>Also, CS jobs are very well-paying right out the door. There are several CS internships that pay well per month (more than a few companies offer > $5K/mo. not to mention perks). I haven’t looked at EE salaries as much, but I have heard that it is harder for an EE grad to get a job than it is for a CS grad, partly because a BS in EE is not enough in some cases.</p>
<p>While I guess that employers may give slight preference to EECS over CS because of the extra physics, math, and EE courses that help nurture one’s way of thinking about problem solving, they would be very happy to hire CS students who have performed well because most of the the job is going to be about software engineering and knowing how computer systems work.</p>
<p>One benefit of being L&S CS is that it is easier to double major in Math because the L&S breadth reqs are going to be satisfied anyway. I think a CS+Math major would make for a strong job candidate. I don’t think this is necessary at all, though. A strong track record and enthusiasm for CS is what companies appreciate.</p>
<p>To be honest, there is no latent rivalry or anything between the two majors. Some of the worst programmers I’ve ever met were EECS and some of the most genius programmers I’ve ever met were CS. The people you pal around with in Soda and Cory don’t give two cr*ps about the difference. There is no EECS clique, there is no CS clique. Partnerships in project classes are mixed because people realize that your ability and your major or two separate events.</p>
<p>And, in all honesty, L&S CS does force you to take more theoretical classes. The whole watered down mumbojumbo is mostly bull. If you wanted to take EE courses, you can, and it’ll count towards your graduation. On the other side of the coin, EECS majors can fully avoid some of the more theory heavy classes (CS70, CS170), and still graduate without anyone knowing the difference. </p>
<p>Of course, L&S CS does give you a LOT more flexibility. I highly suggest double majoring in something else anyway like stats or math to really bring out the fact that an L&S CS degree is more of a theoretical degree than a practical one (even though it is a pretty damn practical degree).</p>
<p>And when you’re looking for a job, any company worth its salt should know that L&S CS is an actual GOOD program. The degree really just gets you in the door- knowing your stuff is vastly more important in a job interview, and if you do L&S CS, you WILL know your stuff.</p>
<p>AS you can see, CS students make on average higher grades in the same courses (Of course, the statistics are bit disingenuous because they don’t take into account outside courseload etc).</p>
<p>Thank you so much, mofmog. That was one of the most enlightening posts about the true L&S experience compared to the countless posts I’ve found in my dozens of Google and CC thread searches. I really appreciate it. </p>
<p>The flexibility is one of the biggest things that are keeping me on the fence between just staying in L&S CS and taking EECS courses in hopes of applying for the slim chance of transfer to CoE. Even though I am interested in the hardware aspect of computers, I am not too keen on the hyper competitive nature of that route and I am even more worried about doing well enough at Berkeley during my first few semesters to even be considered for transfer. </p>
<p>The thing is, I kind of want to stay in L&S because of how flexible it is. I really want to study abroad, and with EECS, I don’t think there is a very good possibility of that working out unless I did a lot of summer classes, that is of course going on the presumptuous assumption that I apply to it and get accepted. Also, double majoring in a foreign language is something I might be interested in doing, so that would also work out well with L&S CS. I am not too big on math, so even if it is a good complement to CS, I don’t think I would be able to do it. </p>
<p>@bsd, yeah internships have been a concern of mine. That is part of why I opted for Berkeley, because of its proximity to Silicon Valley and good internship opportunities for CS folks. With CS, the money seems to always been pretty decent so I am not overly worried about the comparison of salaries. I guess status and opportunity have been my main concerns.</p>
<p>Oh yeah, did anyone go to the Cal Day session from 3 PM to 4 PM in Bechtel Hall where EECS and L&S CS people talked about their experiences and answered questions?</p>
<p>I wanted to go to that but I wasn’t able to make it. Can anyone give a quick summary of what they talked about?</p>
(Of course, the statistics are bit disingenuous because they don’t take into account outside courseload etc).</p>