<p>The AI was originally designed within the ivy league to insure that member colleges were not accepting athletes (for the sake of the team) who fell below a certain league agreed upon minimum score. That is it's only use to my knowledge, except Michele Hernandez made a big deal out of it and she was at Dartmouth.</p>
<p>The inner workings of adcoms vary from college to college and are certainly not open knowledge, but the AI is so simple that it can't be useful. It only has three inputs, the SAT I scores, the SAT II scores and the class rank. If the SAT I scores are "higher" than the SAT II scores, then the SAT II scores are ignored and the SAT I are double weighted. The class rank is handled using a table lookup and assigned a score. The larger the class, the higher the possible score and so applicants from smaller classes are disadvantaged. </p>
<p>I would love to have the SAT distribution data from Harvard, but they aren't going to give it to me. I'm sure somebody at Harvard looks at it very closely. In Toor's "Admissions Confidential", she was an adcom at Duke, and the adcoms went over the statistical reports on a regular basis to make sure they were on track to meet their SAT and URM goals.</p>
<p>I don't mean to make you feel paranoid by singling you out, but you are one of those people who post that they got into Harvard with a 1460 and no hook. First off, congratuations on the SAT score. That is an excellent score. In previous posts, you stated that you had a 780 on the SAT I Math, 790 on the SAT II Math 2, 780 on the SAT II Physics, and 750 on the SAT II Chemistry. If you applied to Harvard in engineering, then you had excellent scores in spite of the relatively lower SAT I CR score. Rachel Toors wrote "Admissions Confidential" after being an adcom at Duke. She said that the adcoms at Duke did very little more than shuffle papers for the engineering applicants and that the engineering faculty made all of the decisions. Take it from me, engineering faculty do not care about SAT I CR scores. Your SAT Math and SAT II Math2 scores are extremely impressive.</p>
<p>I hope you understand what I am saying about posts from people that encourage the idea that "good" EC's can generally get an unhooked applicant into an elite school even with relatively low SAT scores.</p>
<p>"She said that the adcoms at Duke did very little more than shuffle papers for the engineering applicants and that the engineering faculty made all of the decisions."</p>
<p>First of all, that doesn't happen at Harvard.</p>
<p>Second of all, for all the people that did get over a 1580, that wasn't the only thing they had going for them. Most of them are really intelligent and have won national competitions in science, math, writing, etc. Most of them have done amazing research. A 1600 is only a part of what makes them so brilliant.</p>
<p>Harvard doesn't actually care that much about SATs. Sure, you can't have a 1200 or lower, but just because you have a 1350 doesn't mean you'll automatically be rejected.</p>
<p>First, how do you know how they do it at Harvard?</p>
<p>Also, I wasn't saying anything in my post about how the decisions are made, but just that at Duke according to a former adcom, the decision process for the School of Engineering was vastly different than the School of Arts and Sciences and that the decision to admit/deny was made by engineering professors instead of adcoms. I also said that the process for engineering majors heavily emphasized SAT I Math and SAT II Math IIC scores.</p>
<p>If a person applied to the School of Engineering with a 800 Math and a 600 Verbal along with a 800 on the SAT II Math IIC, I got the impression that they might have a real shot. Of course all of the standard personality stuff in the app would still be a factor, particularly any research work that the applicant had done. In addition, engineering departments are still aware of affirmative action and legacies.</p>
<p>The high Math and medium Verbal scores might help to explain some of the characteristics of the SAT distribution.</p>
<p>As a side note, I didn't apply as an engineering major.</p>
<p>And I thought the topic was on SAT I scores, and how 55%-65% of people that get in have 1500+'s on their SAT I's, and that so much of the remaining 35%-45% of the applicants are URMs or athletes, and that little to no room is left for anyone with an SAT I score that is, and I hate to say it, "mediocre" by Harvard's standards. If this whole topic is about SAT's with subject tests included, then I understand what you're saying. I'm not saying that I had crappy SAT II scores or SAT I scores, but I want people to know that going on collegeboard and seeing a 2100 or a 2150 is not the end of the world for a potential Harvard applicant.</p>
<p>I'm not bragging that I am "one of those people that got into Harvard with a 1460 and no hook." The acceptance letter was one of the most surprising and exciting things that has ever happened to me. I took the risk of applying to Harvard as my early school, but every time I looked at the 1500+'s on the stats thread I felt discouraged. I think that many people do look at SAT I's as the universal tool of comparison for college admissions, and get intimidated by the scores of other applicants. I want people to know that it's possible, not that I'm the kid with no hook.</p>
[quote]
The high Math and medium Verbal scores might help to explain some of the characteristics of the SAT distribution.
[/quote]
I said the above after the post that I directed to you.</p>
<p>Yale (but not Harvard) does publish figures showing the percentage of accepted applicants having Math scores broken down by 500-600-700-800 and the percentage having Verbal scores broken down that way. I checked that today at lunch in the Barron's guide, but I don't have it with me. You had a 680V and 780M. That puts you in the bottom 20% for verbal, and the top 10% for math. That is why I supposed a possible engineering/physics major. I wouldn't exactly call it a hook, but it is harder to predict adcom decisions for unusual applicants. I don't know why your are encouraging people to think that HYPSM accepts unhooked applicants with relatively low SAT scores. I don't try to discourage people from applying, after all it is past the application deadline, but I think it is better for people to be realistic. If you are going to encourage people, at least don't just say 1460 with no other explanation.</p>
<p>I figured it was implied that the 1460 is not the best part of my application. I'm more emphasizing that you don't need to be perfect in everything. I said that it is possible to get in with a low SAT score, not that it is likely. Maybe it is partially my fault because I didn't tell the rest of my story.</p>
<p>The thread is about SAT scores, and the original post more or less says that most accepted applicants are either hooked, URM, or 1500+ SAT I scorers. I'm just trying to show the other side of the argument.</p>
<p>I just keep thinking back to November when I had posted one of those chances threads, and almost every reply said something along the lines of "that verbal score might keep you out" or "raise that CR to above 700 and you'll have a much better chance."</p>
<p>I'm not full-out encouraging people with low SATs and no hooks to apply, I'm just trying to make a thread like this seem a bit less intimdating.</p>
<p>EDIT: I'm going out...I'll be back on around midnight if you want to continue the discussion or PM me.</p>
<p>terra:
Actually being on this thread has made me realize that a lot of those lower (less that 1550+) SAT scores could be just high Verbal and low Math, or high Math and low Verbal. That would take some of the pressure off of trying to explain them in terms of a whole lotta URM's and legacies.</p>
<p>There are a lot of people who deserve to be accepted and weren't, but there isn't anybody who was accepted and didn't deserve to be. Your SAT I Math and SAT II scores mean that you are brilliant. Enjoy yourself.</p>