External vs Intrinsic Motivation

<p>This is just a thought I have in regards to all the recent threads about districts/schools offering cash incentives or requiring kids to do well in academics whether that's standardized testing, applying to college, or getting good grades. </p>

<p>This kind of bribing flies in the face of the psychology of motivation. If one is externally rewarded for doing some action, then one's interest in doing said action when there is no external incentive decreases. If one is internally motivated(interest), then that's a different story. </p>

<p>I run with a group of teens that are basically the high achievers. We're all high scorers on standardized testing. None of us in our upbringing have ever been given 'incentives' to do what we did. Looking back, bribing me would've undone me. Many of the rest of my friends agree. We all score high on, for example, reading because we all read a lot--not just fiction books, but in topics we're interested in. I'm drawn to health and science naturally, and make it a habit to read the health&science section of newspapers and newsmagazines daily. I have another friend who is drawn to math. He's sort of obsessed. He reads books on math. In my younger childhood, I would check out stacks of books at the library at the beg. of the summer, read them through, return, then get more. We was never rewarded for any of it---we read to glean information. This has given us a high reading speed and increased reading comprehension--we didn't have to take any prep classes or do any prep for the verbal sections of the SAT I or the SAT II Lit---because we had been unintentionally prepping for more than a decade. </p>

<p>My mother didn't specifically praise me for it or tell me that it was good that I was doing it or give me any money. Neither did any of the parents of the high achievers I know. Doing these things was never portrayed as something that one would normally not want to do unless given money. If my parents had tried to bribe me to read, then I'm pretty sure that I would've stopped reading when the incentive stopped. </p>

<p>In my opinion, which you might diagree with, the best way to increase academic performance in kids later in life is to try to instill an interest in learning and READING really early in life. Don't tell a kid "good job" for reading that chapter book---help him find another one with a story he'll also find amusing. Don't give a kid a sticker for reading or an ice cream cone. Make reading itself the reward. Make reading a vehicle through which to learn about topics the child is interested in. Does the child like horses? Provide all the literature on horses. Does the child like aeroplanes? Stories related to flying and being a pilot it is. Move up, challenge the kid, make it interesting. Don't bore them with books on topics they're not interested in---learning on those topics can come later. There's such a strong push for children to always be reading fiction, but perhaps there should be an equal push to nonfiction on topics that interest them. Back to the horse story---maybe a few fiction books about horses(fiction), but then a book about how horses work(anatomy, Science!), or the history of horses(history). Learn about the different breeds--and perhaps some of the numerical differences between them(size, weight, numbers!--and still science with classification.) It's research skills in disguise!</p>

<p>In regards to standardized testing, it'd be better to address why kids aren't scoring high---they aren't taking the test seriously or they aren't prepared? How does a 4th grader "study" for a standardized test anyway? One area that I obviously think needs addressing is reading. All the subjects (except math at the lower levels) require reading skills---to read that textbook or do well on that test (being able to read the questions on a standardized test rapidly does wonders to your score!---I know a lot of kids who run out of time taking tests simply because of the time it takes them to read the question and think a bit). Many teens I know hate reading because they're slow at it and that's frustrating to them---sure, laziness, but laziness in face of difficulty. How can one expect them to do well in school and eventually college if they hate and avoid reading? One of my parents is a foreigner and even though said parent is intelligent and was a very good scholar in said parent's original country, hasn't been able to help me with school for several years because the english has become too advanced---and the problem I see at school is that many of my classmates aren't much better at English than she is. Yet we wonder why they don't do well...</p>

<p>Feel free to disagree, this was just a thought.</p>

<p>I don't think there's much to disagree with here. Internal motivation is preferable to external. My mother's sole bribe: she'd buy pretty much any book I wanted to read, provided I would really read it. But I always did. I think your point about seeing what kids want to read about and providing, rather than providing books that you think he/she should read is a fantastic one. I know that's how I got into reading, and I was an avid reader young.</p>

<p>One thing, though, I've noticed I am motivated by competition -- an external factor. And I remember always being so.</p>

<p>I guess the ultimate question is what happens when all internal motivation appears to fail. Do you try bribing or putting them in more competitive environments? I would always argue bribing is not a good thing myself. But I bet it's tough to try to figure out how to motivate a kid who has no internal motivation.</p>

<p>Question: what is internal motivation? Scholastic success is linked to social pressure and, I agree with Bedhead, to competition. Most, if not all young children want positive parental feedback. Is there any basic difference between a proud smile and a sticker? As for reading, my opinion is based on personal experience rather than published statistics, but I am convinced that children without learning disabilities who have difficulties reading come from families who don't read. How do you convince a child that reading is essential when his role model(s) is/are glued to a screen?</p>

<p>not everyone has internal motivation, especially for scholastic things. if there is no internal motivation, then external motivation is necessary. any motivation trumps none at all.</p>

<p>I never had the $20 bucks for an A or anything, but I did get rewards for reading over the summer though elementry school. I think it was more to keep me out of my parent's hair, and to keep challenging myself(I had to read x number of books, and they had to be at a fairly high reading level and length).</p>

<p>But skill in reading is possibly the most valuable skill you can have as a student or even in business. So, anything that encourages reading should be viewed as a positive.</p>

<p>Our library had little awards for reading. This motivated my son after kindergarten and maybe 1st grade. Then he grew out of it. He did just love to read. I remember when he was little asking him if he could read the book, "Hop on Pop". He read it backwards because forwards was too easy. I did build reading into his day as something positive. He loved having a bottle so I paired it with reading and called it "bottle-book". It became his great comfort and when he had ear infections, reading was his best pain relief. We dropped out the bottle at some point and reading still is better than anything. Not sure this would work with every kid.</p>

<p>^^My youngest child certainly was motivated by the free pizza slice coupons they give out at the library.
However, my oldest child was interested in reading because she saw that I read all the time. I never read to my kid, my husband did, I know I would fall straight to sleep while reading to her. However, I made up for my laziness by checking out lots of books for her from the library and let her choose what she like read( aka a la Montessori).
External or internal? I don't care as long as my kids end up reading which is the main objective I think.</p>

<p>Internal vs external motivation? It is a fine distinction at best if not a totally false dichotomy. Is getting in to a competitive college an internal motivation? How do you know that you aren't just internalizing social or cultural influences?</p>

<p>Subtle social and cultural influences may be much more effective than cash. But we aren't talking about cc type kids here.</p>

<p>A lot of them have no -- zero -- nada social support for academic acheivement. Or even worse, negative peer support.</p>

<p>Money works pretty well to influence behavior in the adult world. Not to mention the innumerable threads about the relative payoffs of investment banking, the dollar impact of elite colleges, etc.</p>

<p>The more I think about this, the more absurd it sounds.</p>

<p>Lets see. College Presidents are now making enormous salaries, but they love learning and the money is just some minor acknowledgment of this?</p>

<p>Nobel prize winners get a few hundred thousand, but a ghetto kid will be corrupted by being offered a laptop?</p>

<p>Our entire high tech sector claims that stock options are essential for continued innovation and should be given special treatment?</p>

<p>Schools and teachers are both heavily rewarded and punished financially by test scores (including loss of their jobs), but the students simply need to develop a love of learning?</p>

<p>I would suggest that the only problem with extrinsic motivations (if I believed that this was a useful distinction), applied to student achievment in seriously underperforming schools is that the students aren't being externally motivated.</p>

<p>There seem to be studies where kids are given trivial prizes or cash for reading books, etc.</p>

<p>Why not eliminate all economic incentives for the schools, school administrators, and teachers and offer the kids meaningful amounts of money for measurable achievement.</p>

<p>Meaningful like in the hundreds or thousands of dollars.</p>

<p>Then, among other things, you would see students and parents demanding performance from their schools, administrators, and teachers.</p>

<p>There would be as much pressure to fire a bad teacher as a bad football coach.</p>

<p>Note that the cost of education per pupil in very low achieving cities like Washington DC is well over $10k/year, if not approaching the cost of private schools.</p>

<p>The elite private schools already are getting paid for performance. If they don't get their kids into the right colleges, they disappear.</p>

<p>Why is there such concern for endowments and professors' salaries and so on and so forth on College Confidential if all it takes is love of learning and financial considerations are inherently corrupting?</p>

<p>"Schools and teachers are both heavily rewarded and punished financially by test scores (including loss of their jobs), but the students simply need to develop a love of learning?"</p>

<p>They shouldn't be punished for test scores, imo.</p>

<p>I'm trying to say more, except right now I feel seriously ill(unrelated) so I'll be back to post more later I suppose.</p>

<p>I do not disagree with OP's statements. When you love to read it makes a lot of sense. None of my 3 children are avid readers though both my husband and I are; I read to the kids all the time when they were small; they grew up surrounded by books yet they are not enamoured of them and yes their critical reading skills are disappointing. They are good at Maths and their SAT scores reflect this. I did nothing to bring Maths into their lives and yet because its natural for them they excel at it. They can't understand why others struggle with it just as OP can't understand why people don't enjoy reading. Motivation, when it comes from the child is great but when it doesn't, one sometimes has to resort to alternative motivators.</p>

<p>Just as a disclaimer, I tend to be someone who never really has my mind set about any topic. I acknowledge that I don't really know all there is to know---but if I'm interested in a topic, I like to hear others' opinions. One way to elicit responses is to take a firm side so that others will respond, which is what I've done. I find all of your opinions fascinating and interesting, although some of the harsh words perhaps unnecesary. =) What have many of you done with your children?</p>

<p>JB, you've somehow developed a natural curiosity that might be the goal of many educators. I'm guessing you might have had parents who showed a certain amount of inquisitiveness, and some of this rubbed off? I see parents saying 'because I said so' to a child's questions far to often. What does the child learn? To not question. </p>

<p>The mechanics of reading are hard for some to pick up, in the absence of learning disabilities. Some of the focus on rewards for emerging readers, is to keep them motivated during that period where the mechanics are troublesome. After reading becomes second nature, it can then become more intrinsically rewarding. </p>

<p>My son struggled a bit, despite loving being read to. I thought he'd learn to love books in time, as he'd certainly enjoyed them as a preschooler. But when his grandparents proudly bought him a Gameboy in 3rd grade or so(without consulting me first), I knew it would be a far greater battle, as of course the Gameboy occupied all spare time, and reading was not yet entrenched. He reads voraciously now, but game screen activities occupied far more of his time and energy for years. Unfortunately. Opportunities lost....</p>

<p>
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What have many of you done with your children?

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</p>

<p>My kids are HUGE readers. Both of them were reading at age 3 and preferred reading to most anything else. We are lucky that way! I have friends who had to bribe their kids to read anything at all. My kids are also competitive with grades, not so much with their peers, but with themselves and each other. So I don't have to "pay" them when they get A's. The motivation is definitely internal. Again, I think we're really lucky. It might be that my reading to them a lot as babies helped, who knows. Or it might just be that they take after their mom, since I was the same way ;)</p>

<p>Intrinsic motivation is the ideal, but what do you do when a kid doesn't have it?</p>

<p>We all want our kids to get adequate education so that they can get good jobs as adults, but intrinsic motivation alone won't allow many of them to complete that education.</p>

<p>Consider the avid reader who hates math. Intrinsic motivation may carry this student through his literature classes, but some sort of external motivation -- grades, money, fear of public humiliation, whatever -- will be needed to get him through algebra and geometry. </p>

<p>What bugs me, though, is that today's educational system doesn't exploit intrinsic motivation even when it's there. Many kids do indeed have enthusiasm for some school subjects -- or for learning in general in the early grades -- but the cut-and-dried everybody-does-the-same-worksheet-at-the-same-time curriculum seems designed to kill it rather than nurture it.</p>

<p>For my son, his motivation to do well in math and science came from wanting to get into a great college. So I guess it was a mixture of intrinsic and extrinsic. If he had any doubts about what would be needed, the 20 info sessions he attended before senior year convinced him to keep up the rigor in the less favorite subjects and it did seem to pay off.</p>

<p>I do agree, Marion, that a lot of enthusiasm gets killed by dull and/or poorly paced approaches to subject matter. Italian education methods seem to do much better with this than we do in US. Kids are naturally geared to love learning, I think, if we let them follow their passions.</p>

<p>I wish I could post a copy of the graduation speech given by a parent to our last graduating class. He is a professor at Harvard. I have sat through many speeches by politicians and this was the best, from the heart with a focus on what it takes to accomplish your dreams. His whole focus was that we all have them, dreams, our intrinsic motivators, what we truly love! Some people are more aware of them than others. This professor was born into the poorest of circumstances in a third world country plagued by war. He knew he always wanted to be a professor at Harvard from his teenage years and he figured out slowly, slowly how to do it. It is not an uncommon story. This man put up with the most boring educational practices and institutions that you can imagine. If you have a dream, a love, anything is possible.</p>

<p>Some of the approach to an individuals' motivation is fostered by peer group. Over the years, it has been interesting to watch the classes at our local HS develop an individual character. Some are very academically competitive and motivated, others more creative, others into substance abuse. There are always a few who will shine, regardless, and some who fall behind. </p>

<p>The son mentioned above, who was not much of a reader for years, became more academically oriented over time, I think as a result of his peer group tending that way. School was easy for him, so he never needed to work hard in the early years, which I think set up some less than functional patterns. And now, his love for learning seems far more intrinsic, though has taken years, and college to foster it more fully.</p>