Extra Time on SAT

Parents Forum
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Why not just give erveryone the time he needs to do his best on the test? My kids had extra time on their early IEPs. My daughter’s therapist even put it into her report going into second grade, even though she had never taken a test, because she said once it is in there they just carry it forward every year. Well, daughter never used it in grade school but sure could have used it for the math section of the ACT. Other diught was always given plenty of time by every teacher in k-12, but also could have used it for any reading on the ACT. Both my kids had IEPs and they worked, so they grew out of them and we moved so they didn’t get renewed. No extra time.

Just give everyone the time they need to give the right picture on the tests.

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I proctored the state tests at my elementary school for years. I always had the group with extended time on the tests.

Gotta say…my group was always the first group finished. The kids didn’t use the extra time at that level in my experience.

To get extra time on the state tests…one had to demonstrate that they needed extra time for other assessments given throughout the year.

To get extended time on the SAT, one needs to document that extended time was neede by the student fro HS assessments…and not just the standardized ones.

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Please try and understand the concept of a level playing field.

The disparity between low income and high income rates for accommodations does not mean the high income kids shouldn’t have gotten them. It means the low income kids need more advocacy.

It is difficult to get accommodations for standardized testing, as others have said. It is certainly hard to “game” the system.

I usually stay out of discussions that result from such a mean-spirited post, but decided to just say a few things. One question is, why do you care so much? I think that along with examining your attitudes about the very real challenges some kids face (and be grateful if your kids don’t), you might examine your attitudes toward the college admissions race. You may be caught up in the competitiveness of it all and taking a step back might make it less stressful.

College accommodations do address disabilities but not at all to the standard of public high school. The disablilities office provides letters for the student to give to the professor, that state they have registered but usually do not state what the disability is. The student and professor work it out. Often a dean or doctor will also get involved as needed.

Most kids with disabilities abhor accommodations and have to be convinced to use them when needed.

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@compmom A very well written post! “Most kids with disabilities abhor accommodations and have to be convinced to use them when needed.” That is so true! If you have never dealt with a child who needs accommodations for a learning or health disability, you should just be thankful.

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The vast majority of kids with accomodations need them. If your kid doesn’t, add that to the list of things you can be grateful for.

There are, however, a small group of people who abuse the system. It’s wrong and unfair, but to tinker with the program at the expense of those who really need it is unproductive and impossible.

Stay focused on what you can control and be thankful for your blessings.

As for the real world, a young friend was just let go from a job for not being able to complete the work without overtime (as colleagues could ). I don’t see it as "comeuppance " but likely another challenge most of us are lucky enough to not know.

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Generally to get accommodations from the College Board you need to not only provide documentation but also show that the student has a history of receiving the same accommodation on school tests. https://www.collegeboard.org/students-with-disabilities/eligibility. So while I’m sure there are cases of abuse, it’s not as simple as asking a doctor to “give” an ADHD diagnosis. If the student wasn’t getting and using extra time on tests on a regular basis through an IEP or 504, then I’m very doubtful the College Board would grant the accommodation. Also as others have pointed out, having extra time doesn’t help if you don’t know the material in the first place. My ADHD kid needs extra time on virtually every test, and several times a week I pick her up an hour or more after school ends because she is finishing up a test or quiz. That’s not fun for her, not fun for her teachers and not fun for me. And @overtheline yes I worry about how she’ll fare in the “real world” so I can do without the schadenfreude anticipation that she’ll fail. I agree with @doinresearch that kids with disabilities often have strengths in other areas and can thrive and excel in the right career.

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Oops, accidentally posted as the kindle was running out of power. If the neighbor student got extended time to show what he could do, his score may exceed that of your student and be admitted when competition is tight. Would you want your student not admitted because another received extra time for no specific reason. Like sports, timing is an important element in performance. Some sports handicap, but not academically testing because time is a critical element. Students with disabilities under the ADAAA and section 504 are required to their need for extended time as a means of compensating for specific aspects of disability. Research indicates that there is a clear discrepancy between a score taken with versus without extended time. In contrast, students without disabilities may pick up a few extra points but rarely make substantial gains in score. As indicated in the first example a minimal change in score may be enough in the context of all variables to alter decisions in tight admissions.
For students without disabilities improved score of more than a few points is really rare. Look at a normal curve. From about the 16%ile to the 84%ile captured 2/3 of students who fall in the broadly average range. Obviously, students closer to 84 earned more points than those near 15. Students in the broad average range are really scrunched together. A few points one way or the other are unlikely to make much change in the the percentile ranking. On CD, students lament that scores may drop on retake. The score on a standardized test fluctuate by a few points. While fluctuation within a range is expected, students who calculate how many points to move from one percentile to another or from your one score to another or from 28 to 32 on the ACT can be pretty difficult. Scores on the earliest testing are not the base that will increase by subsequent testing. Using a different version of the test can change the total score by a few points. Students are concerned that the recent scores do not exceed and may are be allow the earlier test score. Students are frustrated when he he subtest scores vary by content area but yield the same composite. So which set to submit for applications.

I am not saying that scores are unreliable. Instead, scores vary within a tiny range and all else is equal including additional test prep. Wee change part of the arithmetic used to generate normal curves. Scores are probably more likely to increase dramatically because of personal factors that cab be modified. We do not have a list of scores of standardized tests engraved on the inside of skulls.

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If extra time is unlikely to change scores that much, why not just give everyone more time? That would keep the gaming out of it. Those who truly need extra time would have it and so would those who are just trying to game the process. The tests would show the true comparison of studentson an equal testing field.

My kids should have had more time but didn’t (and don’t ) need it for most sections or most types of tests. They had therapies early in their lives (and very rough starts to life), and IEPs, but they also had teachers who could work with them without a formal IEP so we let them expire because of changing schools and districts. That was my mistake. They didn’t need it in 8th grade but it would have helped on AP or ACT testing. One had brain bleeds as a baby, the other is a really slow reader because English wasn’t her first language. Oh well.

But you know what? They are in college, they could have received more in scholarships if their ACTs were higher, but I’m over it. I do think there are abuses to the system as I know at least one high school junior who was diagnosed with ADHA, put on medication and given extra time. No history of needing extra time but a parent who knew the system and how to get what she wanted.

I disagree that it is difficult to get an IEP or 504 or the accommodations you want. If they don’t cost the school much, they are usually willing to allow them. Want to sit in the front row? Okay. Want something different for math? Fine. My sister teaches 4th grade and last year 16 kids out of 27 had IEPs. They all wanted to sit in the front row so then there is no front row, they sit in circles or squares. No one seems to care as long as no other kid is getting something their kid isn’t getting. Extra time for tests? Sure, that’s fine. She’s happy if they show up and aren’t being arrested. Yes, that’s a concern as if a 9 year old 4th grader hits someone, he is sent to the principal, but if a 10 year old 4th grader does it the police are called. Assault.

The schools here get more money for students who are in special ed. Why would they turn that down if all they have to do is allow more time on tests and let them sit in the front row?

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Accommodations are heavily concentrated in affluent suburbs. Some, such as Greenwich, CT, are infamous for an over-representation of accomodated students.

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The problem is with the intrinsic design of SAT’s & ACT’s. The tests are designed and validated with the intent that average students are not going to have time to finish all sections. The multiple choice design also includes answer options that are intentionally designed to mislead (distractors) – so students who rush through in order to finish the exam are also more likely to make errors and select those appealing, but wrong, answers.

So if everyone was given more time, the tests would have to be recalibrated. @zannah might be correct about overall levels of discrepency – that is, that on average the scores wouldn’t go up all that much – if a given student’s scores increase by 30 points it isn’t all that significant (and well within the margin of error for the test). But if almost all students who take the test have an average 30 point increase in an extended-time environment… then that does break the scoring system.

Even though the testing agencies don’t report which students have accommodations to colleges, they do know internally, and are probably able to exclude those scores from whatever internal checks they are conducting to assure test validity. And the overall number of students who both qualify for accommodations and aiming for competitive college admissions – with scores in the upper ranges-- is probably too small of a fraction to impact the overall test scaling process in any event. Despite the angst expressed on CC over top level test scores, it’s likely that the vast majority of students who legitimately qualify for and need the accommodations are more likely to also have mid-range (~50th percentile) scores when given the accomodations they need.

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@Corinthian. Ask yourself this: Does China give any students extra time or special accommodations on its National College Entrance Exam? Does Korea give any students extra time or special accommodations on its College Scholarship Ability Test? Does Singapore give any students extra time or special accommodations on its National Examinations? Do India or Japan give students extra time or special accommodations on their national college examinations. The answer is no.

Somehow, someway, in the United States, we have removed the common sense recognition that individuals have different abilities and skill sets. If Johnny or Sally is not as smart or studious as some of his/her peers, we now need to give them special accommodations because of a “learning disability”–regardless of the impact on the rest of the class, or society as a whole.

This, then, bleeds over into other aspects of our kids’ day-to-day lives. Everyone should a get a participation trophy, rather than MVP trophies. Either a significant portion of a graduating class should be valedictorian or there should be no valedictorians.

But, when they get to the real world, there will be separation based on abilities. And, quite frankly, for many, failure in one area leads to successes in another areas. Not everyone belongs at a top university. or , for that matter, any university Quite frankly, in the United States, we need many more craftsman than college-educated students. And no amount of extra time, or special accommodations, will change this reality. China, South Korea, Singapore, India, Japan and many, many other countries recognize the basic and undeniable facts,

@Corinthian: I do not fault you for trying to help your Johnny or Sally. But do not ask me to agree that giving all the Johnnys and Sallys extra time on their college entrance exam is fair to the rest of the students, who do not get extra time or special accommodations. It is not fair.

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College applications contain a 4 year portfolio of data, and many colleges are test optional, so standardized test scores are mostly used for selective colleges. Assuming a student has all of the ECs, great grades and high level courses, their intellectual ability has been already demonstrated. Extra time on a standardized (fill in the bubbles) test will not give a bump to a student without high intellect and good HS preparation. Let’s be realistic about the legitimacy of the ACT/SAT in the first place. If the student does not have the intellectual ability, time is not the answer.

One experience with accommodations (time and typing) for ADD and a writing disability since 6th grade allows for intellectual depth and achievement beyond any expectations. By age 15, the student realized that they might not be able to produce the fastest solution, but in the end they often created the best solution. Real life is not a timed test and only fields such as an ER physician have a ticking clock.

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re Post #30
Fortunately, this country is not China, South Korea, Singapore, India and Japan. We recognize civil right law.

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re Post #30
Everyone always brings up the participation trophies, but never mentions who is giving them out.

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Guarantee that the mean-spirited parents complaining here are disappointed in their kid’s scores. One of my kids has a documented disability and the other does not: they both received similar scores.

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I hope posters like @Overtheline (who I previously replied to in post #12) never have a child or grandchild who has learning disabilities but I do hope that they learn some empathy. As I said earlier I have nothing but disgust for those who try to game the system for extra time. But as a mom of a child who grew up with learning disabilities I firmly believe that accommodations are in place to make things fair for those who need some extra time to show what they know on timed exams. Accommodations exist to try and level the paying field for kids with learning disabilities – to make things as fair as possible.

The suggestion that students with learning disabilities be sent to trade schools rather than have them work on their issues, get accommodations when necessary, and achieve their full potential is sickening. To me that is the equivalent of not giving a child the medicine he/she needs for a physical aliment which would allow the person to be as healthy as possible. (And FWIW I’m all for trade schools and when it is the right fit for a person’s interests and abilities.). Keep in mind that if a person doesn’t not have the intellect or ability to score well on an exam then no amount of extra time will help him/her to achieve at a high level.

And as to the question of fair…well life isn’t fair. It isn’t "fair’ that some kids have learning issues, that some kids are ill…and on and on. As parents what we need to do is to work toward allowing our children to reach their potential and lead a happy, productive,(and hopefully compassionate) life.

And if you prefer the system in Asia, feel free to pursue higher education there.

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“The suggestion that students with learning disabilities be sent to trade schools rather than have them work on their issues, get accommodations when necessary, and achieve their full potential is sickening. To me that is the equivalent of not giving a child the medicine he/she needs for a physical aliment which would allow the person to be as healthy as possible. (And FWIW I’m all for trade schools and when it is the right fit for a person’s interests and abilities.). Keep in mind that if a person doesn’t not have the intellect or ability to score well on an exam then no amount of extra time will help him/her to achieve at a high level.”

Absolutely agree. One of the most mean-spirited posts on cc, maybe anywhere, no empathy or compassion, and all that vitriol directed to people who had nothing to do with a disability they were born with.

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Considering that the poster you referred to has a child with medical issues, you would think there would be some compassion. I understand what you’re going through and I’m sure you’re a great parent.

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MODERATOR’S NOTE: Closing thread because I don’t think there is anything to add.