Extracurriculars Confused

Colleges & Universities A-Z University of Florida
1

<p>Humor a guy who graduated from high school in 1967 and then
again with a BS in 1971, MA in 1972 and Ph.D. in 1974. No understand EC's?</p>

<p>On this forum and others I regularly see "chance me" posts where
the well intentioned poster puts up eh, average SAT's, as well as
eh, ok but not a great GPA. Ok but not superb academic scores.</p>

<p>Then, the "chance me" poster puts up extracurriculars on, and on, and
on, e.g., band, football, baseball, United Nations forum, blah, blah and
more blah. Service ad nausea plus more service. Ok superb.</p>

<p>It would seem that a serious high school student (ie., one wishing to
matriculate at UF) would balance EC's with obtaining a superb GPA plus
setting themselves up for superb SAT's. Wouldn't it be smart to cut
back on EC's if they were negatively impacting grades and the GPA?
Has high school become as much about EC's as academic preparation--
ie., GPA and SAT's. Wouldn't a professor prefer a well prepared
academic in the classroom rather than a student who majored in high
school in EC's.?? I can see EC's as oh, let's say 10% of the admit
equation but it seems like today EC's are on equal footing with GPA
and SAT's. </p>

<p>Please enlighten me re: EC's apparent dominant importance in being
admitted to UF etc.</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

<p>David ps: I went to school as a "recruitable athlete."</p>

2

<p>from a university’s perspective:</p>

<p>some of its because undergraduate degrees aren’t nearly as academic as post-bachelor degrees. the prevailing idea is that undergraduate degrees (in most fields) serve to teach students how to learn, interact, and behave in a particular way and setting–not to prepare them for highly analytical or academic work. the difference between getting a perfect score on the SAT or a 4.0 gpa versus a 3.5 or 1900 SAT means nothing to students who want to get an undergraduate degree/certification in management, nursing, environmental sciences, accounting, etc… the marginal difference between people at that level is almost meaningless. the difference between a 1280 and 1350 on the SAT can be a few hours of sleep missed before the exam. the only cases where distinctions between top performers matters is on a graduate level. once you can prove that you’re <em>capable</em> of behaving academically, or that you have some meaningful interest in learning and improving your skills, what difference does it make?</p>

<p>so as an admissions group becomes better equipt intellectually, and approaches a hard limit on measurement, academic factors become less important since you already have all of the ‘smart’ students you need (again, the difference between 4.0 and 3.6 is really not significant in real terms). if academic measurements become less significant, then secondary, non-academic factors gain in importance.</p>

<p>basically what i mean is, UF has reached a certain threshold where its decided that admitting more well rounded, ambitious, outgoing, and social students is more important than admitting students with higher academic stats. the threshold can be thought of as a certain level of proven ability by students to perform applying to the school. so because they have more academically qualified students applying than they can accept, they look for other factors.</p>

<p>i think another useful model is to think of it in terms of the normal distribution used for the SAT. assume there is a loose minimum score, and they’re equally likely to accept any students above it. since UF doesn’t occupy the highest extreme of the distribution, its in a more populated area right below it (think 1200-1400 range). then consider how many students exist in that range who apply to UF. certainly more than the university can admit. so, knowing the context of the observations (the significance of the SAT in predicting academic capability), the greater the number of qualified and capable students apply, the more significant non-academic factors become in distinguishing candidates. this is simplified, but i think its still a useful model.</p>

<p>from a students perspective:</p>

<p>this is a lot more cultural and preference oriented. a few things come to mind.</p>

<p>a) bad information. most students don’t realize that STEM jobs are the only way they’re going to be making money 40 years from now, and don’t plan for it. i think this is based off a paper linked below (i’m not 100% sure): theres a notion of why there is such a large and growing disparity between the rich and poor in the US. routine, non-analytical workers (read, most jobs that don’t require calc 2 and above), are more and more frequently being substituted with capital, such that anyone who doesn’t deal with significantly challenging, non-routine, creative analytic work will not be paid that much. this is the same thing that occurred from the 60s-80’s to manual labor (manufacturing), but not its happening (and has been happening) to mid level jobs as computers are capable of doing more and more. education is not keeping up with technology in a way that prepares students for a workforce that is heavily aided by computers.
<a href=“Research, Economic Research | San Francisco Fed”>Research, Economic Research | San Francisco Fed;

<p>my point again being: kids don’t think of these things. they want to play sports because they love playing sports and don’t like to study. the study because their parents tell them they need to in order to make money “some day when you get older”, or because they’re competitive and don’t want anyone to think they’re dumb. most high school students don’t have any notion of the true marginal ‘benefit’ to focusing on studying.</p>

<p>b) they want to gain experience. this is highly underrated, really. i remember i wasn’t even sure i wanted to go to college at one point because i thought i had another career that i would have preferred, even after knowing the difference in earnings. in light of this, i honestly think its stupid to focus on academics more or less exclusively–college is not for everyone, and students shouldn’t assume that they have to go to college, or you go and become a miserable failure, all of that time you wasted in high school getting straight A’s was a complete waste. it would have been much better if they were doing MORE EC’s rather than less.</p>

<p>some other stuff here. tldr, i don’t think EC’s are overemphasized. i do think most HS EC’s are complete ******** though. thats more of a problem with implementation though.</p>

3

<p>aforautumn-- Thanks for the detailed response. I appreciate many of
your points. I guess as an academic myself, I continue with a couple concerns.</p>

<p>First, for a young person to really benefit from the environment of a major
research university it would seem that the university (in this case UF and a
member of the AAU) would want 4.0’s as opposed to 3.6’s to consistently
matriculate. The 4.0 would seem to be the academically motivated young
scholar while the 3.6, not so much so. It has been my experience that the
top notch AAU schools are pushing a research agenda even at the undergrad
level. Correct, a minor percentage of undergrads benefit from this thrust but
why not accept more of those students who will benefit from this agenda?–
ie., the 4.0’s and those with superb SAT’s. </p>

<p>2ndly, it seems to me that a huge percentage of the “chance me” posts
lay out EC listings that are padded. I mean ad nausea! Just who on the
admit committee checks the accuracy of these EC listings? I submit that many
applicants actually make up some of their EC’s and Service listings. And, if
so, this is not good-- certainly a bad habit-- potentially leading to trouble
down the way either in the academic world or in the workplace. The SAT and
GPA are what they are, what about the EC’s? Huh? And, then they are given
equal footing with objective academic scores. This concerns me. If the EC’s
are going to used for the purposes you state (and, I understand your perspective)
then it would seem that EC’s are being used to unfairly diminish objective
academic accomplishment – Superb GPA and Superb SAT. </p>

<p>I’m beginning to get the feeling that the high school scholar with superb SAT’s
and a 4.0 GPA (or close to it) is being diminished be/c they aren’t on the Cheerleading
Squad or on the track team or in the band. I do not believe this is as it should
be in a major academic institution.</p>

<p>.02 David</p>

4

<p>Bn1299-
Excellent post but your statement included a flaw;</p>

<p>–“First, for a young person to really benefit from the environment of a major
research university it would seem that the university (in this case UF and a
member of the AAU) would want 4.0’s as opposed to 3.6’s to consistently
matriculate. The 4.0 would seem to be the academically motivated young
scholar while the 3.6, not so much so.”–</p>

<p>At the private preparatory school I attend, a GPA of 4.0 is not practical
and in turn the admissions committee at UF will not take into consideration
the quality of the high school nor the curriculum the prospective candidate
submits for freshman admissions. Although a candidate such as myself will
submit an SAT score of 2210, my chances of admissions at UF are hindered
since my GPA is only 3.7 with minimal EC’s. For example, two seniors from my school last year were denied admissions to UF due to ( low ) GPA but were admitted to MIT on a full, 100 % ride.
The moral of my rambling is the following;
A prospective freshman candidate should attend public high school,
take basic core classes and score A’s. Then inflate their grade with several easy AP classes and fill out their application with a zillion EC’s, no matter how fraudulent they may be. It’s quite humiliating that a candidate such as myself will probably not gain admissions into UF solely because I never attended a public school and never
had the opportunity to take AP classes in order to inflate my GPA, although
all the basic classes I took far exceed all the AP classes offered in the public
school system. I guess that I will be stuck at UM or Chicago next year.
Also toss in the minority card and the financial hardship clause.
Thanks for the web therapy, Joe Miami</p>

5

<p>cnmpsyd— Amazing! Now, I’m really confused. Good luck
with the UF application.</p>

<p>David</p>

6

<p>Stop whining @cnmpsyd</p>

<p>I personally know of three kids that attended one of the hardest private schools in Miami and West Palm
Their GPAs were low… 3.4-3.7. So-so ECS… but they had ECs.
They all gained admission to UF. I personally have met people recently who work in admissions and all they say is it comes down if you are well-rounded.</p>

<p>Good GPA?
Some ECs?
Good Essay?
and lastly
What can they bring to make UF unique?</p>

<p>Sorry to interrupt, but felt that the Private school argument is flawed and may not always be the case.
** In my case, yes, I went to public school but did not ever take a single AP class. I completed Dual Enrollment Courses.</p>

7

<p>By the way, they are of ethnic background. THough only one of them faces financial hardship.</p>

8

<p>What does ethnic background have to do with admission in your
example?</p>

<p>David</p>

9

<p>cnmpsyd… I’ve said it before and i’ll say it again, I hope to god you don’t get into UF, so I’ll never have the misfortune of meeting you.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Maybe the reason you won’t get in is because you have a false sense of entitlement?</p>

<p>

Keep thinking that</p>

<p>

After taking the test 5 times and spending ~$1000 for a prep course</p>

<p>

bn12gg, I’d disregard cnmpsyd’s posts, his bottom is a little sore</p>

<p>

More than the admission’s office would care to admit. URMs (Under represented minorities) have much less trouble getting accepted into university.</p>

<p>Last year, out of the many people who applied to Ivies (~10) the three that were accepted, were all URMs (accepted to multiple ivies actually).</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Spot on. From what I’ve seen, this is exactly what’s happening.</p>

10

<p>cnmpsyd…</p>

<p>Dang you think you are the greatest thing since sliced bread huh? Well guess what, you aren’t. I assure you my test scores are much much higher than yours- I’m talking top .1% in the country. And trust me, I had plenty of time to join ECs, I was involved in about 7 of them. Dang I bet you are jealous now! Its ok man don’t worry, have fun at UCF dude I’m sure its great there! Hey maybe if you get a 4.0 at UCF you can come to UF grad school!! Oh wait, with a 3.7 I doubt you’ll even get into community colleges, dang dude I feel bad for you…</p>

<p>Lesson of this post: Get over yourself.</p>

11

<p>ZapadniyRus
que tonto- </p>

<p>Quote:
Although a candidate such as myself will
submit an SAT score of 2210
After taking the test 5 times and spending ~$1000 for a prep course
REPLY-----
Took the SAT three times and the ACT twice to achieve the listed score
and the tutoring ran close to $ 4000 which was money well spent !</p>

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<p>I can see now that you are INDEED a spoiled brat</p>

13

<p>

</p>

<p>You know something really sad cnmpsyd? I spent $0 on tutoring. I used the books at the library and scored just about the same as you did.</p>

<p>You seem really proud of the fact that you spent $4000 for a SAT/ACT tutor… Spending that much money really makes me wonder how low your score was to begin with.</p>

14

<p>I know I don’t know your situation or anything cnmpsyd, but if your starting score was soo low you had to spend $4000 on tutoring, and GPA is often correlated with SAT/ACT score, then maybe it’s the private schools that have inflated GPA’s.</p>

<p>but besides that point, it has always been my understanding that how easy or hard a school is depends more on the area the school it is in rather than if it is public or private. I know this was at least true in my part of Florida. If a school was in an affluent neighborhood, the parents and students pushed the school to the point of offering challenging courses that looked good to colleges, and there was so much competition that the school had to make getting a good GPA difficult just so they didn’t have a senior class of entirely 4.0’s. On the other hand, schools with a poverty stricken populace really push to help those kids graduate, and as such most classes are relatively easy.</p>

<p>Now this could be entirely wrong, but it is just how the situation seems from my personal experiences and the experiences of friends and family.</p>