FAFSA/EFC and how many kids you can claim in college in a divorce/remarriage/step kid situation

Paying for College
21

It is unfair to you, but lots of things are unfair. Singles get a lower asset protection allowance. Singles have a cut off of $80k for full AOTC while married people, whether both work or only one does, have a $160k limit (and then it gradually reduces). Fair for coworkers each earning $100k, one married, one single to have different tax credits on the same income, same college cost? Absolutely. Unfair that the limit is the same whether you have one child in college or 6? Absolutely.

What I don’t think you are figuring in is that at a certain point, it really doesn’t matter if the federal EFC is $15k or $40k or $60k. Once it is about $10k, you aren’t going to get any extra federal aid and the school may have its own forms or require CSS which WILL show the stepparent’s income and obligations for child support. For schools that give really good institutional aid (Williams, Ivies, Stanford) you will have a chance to plead your case on the CSS.

Run those NPCs with 2 students in school and with 1. Are you really getting need based aid that makes up that difference between and EFC of $32k and $64k, or even the difference between $20k and $10k? If you list a few schools he is considering, many on here can tell you how specific schools handle FA. There are definitely schools in the ‘donut hole’ for middle class families and no matter what you do or how many kids you have in college, you just can’t get enough aid for those schools.

I don’t think it is a failed system. Going to college is a privilege, and going to a particular college even more so. The government gives needy students a small amount of money in a Pell grant and allow students to borrow at a low rate. Usually that is enough to go to a public school in the student’s state, but maybe not the flagship. Private schools or out of state public schools charge what they want, give money to whom they want. It they want you, they’ll give you money or set out the terms of how you can get more aid - National Merit, great scores and gpa, athlete, Nobel prize winner. How can you fix that, require all private schools to meet the full need based on FAFSA? Require all schools to cost the same and have the amount set for each student to be the EFC only?

Having said that, I wouldn’t just drop a school before looking into it more. My daughter picked out a school with a COA of $50k+, and wasn’t going to get need based aid. We almost walked away without even asking about finances. The school had merit aid, a few grants, some state grants, and finally an athletic scholarship. All those little amounts made it work without need based aid. I pay a lot more for her sister at a state school, also with no need based aid.

What you are really going to find unfair is if your children have a bio father who will be expected to contribute even if he won’t. That may knock more schools off your list than not getting to count the stepsister.

22

Keep in mind that if any of the schools your son is looking at schools that give really good institutional aid (the Ivies, Williams, Amherst, Stanford, etc) and require the CSS profile/Non-custodial profile or their own non-custodial parent forms, the income of your household (you and current husband) along with the income and assets of ex-husband (and spouse if he has remarried) will be used to determine institutional aid. Like @twoinanddone states, you are really going upset when they require your ex who won’t contribute to contribute to these costs.

Again, as @twoinanddone states, if all of your schools are FAFSA only schools and you have a 32k EFC, you are not going to be eligible for any 'Free money" in the form of federal/state aid. Most FAFSA only schools do not meet 100% demonstrated need so claiming your step-D, is probably a non-factor.

If your husband claims your Step-d on taxes and you meet the income threshold, is your family claiming the AOTC credit her?

If you have a high stats kid who is a viable candidate to be admitted into some schools that give really good aid, then you should be looking at schools where he stands a good chance of getting merit money. Have the money talk with your kid now and cast a wide net.

23

Agree that the issue is going to be the ex-husband’s income and not the step D. I know it’s time consuming, but for illustrative purposes, take a look at how the generous schools (Amherst, Stanford, etc) allocate need based aid- both with Step D as part of your household and then without. I think you will a very startling conclusion- unless your ex is in prison and has zero income and has had no contact with his kids in ten years (and I’m assuming from your references that he is in the picture, just not financially) it’s the absence of HIS contributions, and not the domicile of your Step D that’s denying your son full choices.

You are aggravated at the unfairness of your husband’s ex’s situation. The unfair situation here is YOUR ex.

Has he completely washed his hands of any responsibility for college? Does he have a substantial income and has he contributed at all to the education/upbringing of his children? This is how your kids are getting screwed- not by their step-sister.

24

“He has a younger brother following him so when he is a junior, I will have two in college that I can “officially” claim. I expect her to go to grad school. In that scenario, if she did 1) go to grad school or 2) not graduate in 4 years and IF we were able to claim her as a student in school then I would only run into issues for the last few years of the youngest at a higher tuition school…”

A child in grad school does not “count” for FAFSA purposes. It only takes into account kids who are in college. So you’d have an issue in your S1’s sophomore year as well.

25

If you have any schools on your list that “meet need” then they will likely will require your ex-H’s income even if he won’t pay. Parents are first in line to pay for college.

It may not seem fair, but if done otherwise, then all parents would say, “I won’t pay,” and then suddenly schools could not help those who truly do not have parents with any money.

When your StepD goes to grad school, she’ll be independent.

Is your child a senior? Did he apply anywhere that would give him large merit scholarships? If your son is a junior, then have him include at least 3 schools that he likes that will give him HUGE merit scholarships. If he refuses to pick any, then use the “Parent Pick” option, pick out a few good ones, and INSIST that he apply to those.

<<<
since unlike the ex, I can’t use just my income.


[QUOTE=""]

[/QUOTE]

I’m scratching my head wondering why this upsets you so much. Your Step kids ended up with lower EFCs that way, and likely got more aid. That meant that YOUR H likely had to pay LESS than he would have if his income had been included. Sounds like the kids would have gotten NO AID, and then your H would have had to pay MORE. Is that what you would have wanted? Would you have wanted your H to have to have paid MORE?

The exW is living without a husband, so no husband’s income to include. If you wanted, you could be single as well and then you wouldn’t have to count your H’s income. I’m being silly, I know, but that’s the way it works.

Be single, live alone, pay for all household expenses by yourself, if you don’t want to include your H’s income. Done!

26

When the step D graduates then your husband will be done with paying his 50% for her college expenses. Then that extra money can be spent on your son.

Students who qualify for full federal and state aid often have to commute to a local school because max aid and loans only add up to about $15k and even state schools with room and board costs are often more than $20k, they don’t have many choices even with a low EFC.

But a high stats student might be able to attend a selective private school that meets full need or get high merit to be able to afford a public school.

27

Did you run the NPCs for the schools and poke around at what their history of merit awards is (if they give merit-based aid)? You might be surprised. Federal aid is about Pell grants (which it doesn’t sound like you qualify for) and loans. That’s it. Very little to do with specific colleges’ institutional aid. You could also ask for an early estimate. Many private colleges will do that for you. You shouldn’t just take schools off your son’s list unless you’ve done all of your due diligence.

28

I understand it’s upsetting that colleges won’t give you additional aid because part of your husband’s salary is going to pay for his share of the costs of his children’s education. But helping to pay for your children’s education is their father’s responsibility, not the college’s. They aren’t interested in subsidizing his lifestyle. Your children won’t get additional scholarships if their father refuses to pay, but your husband’s children won’t get extra grants if he refuses to pay either. It doesn’t sound like they’re treating you differently.

If your son takes a gap year, all your husband’s children will be out of college. You’ll have 3 years with 2 children in college and both children will have 1 year when they’re the only student. Will your husband cover more of the household bills so you can cover the higher college expenses those 2 years? Or are you expected to continue to pay whatever household expenses you’re covering now and fund your children’s education out of the balance of your income? If you have to pay out of your income, you need to look for merit aid or choose less expensive schools.

29

I appreciate all responses and yes, I do realize this is a first world problem. I needed to know the answer to my question and appreciate all who helped clarify. I have moved on.

@twoinanddone
Yes, I realize that under any circumstance we would not qualify for federal aid. However, for smaller LAC’s with high tuition, in many cases the potential would exist to qualify for a grant for some or all the differential for those that meet 100% need. I have run the numbers and done due diligence.

As for the bio father, that amuses me to no end. Beyond the fact that my husband has not had to provide any information that shows an expectation of any support for his two and he can pay (and does), even if my kids bio father was expected somehow by a school to provide support there is none to give. I would be more upset I suppose if there was money there that wasn’t being given that could be, legally he is obligated but all that means is tens of thousands in arrears, the reality is there is none to get. If there is no money to go after, there is none and I don’t see how that will impact my bill at all.

We will certainly go after all scholarships and merit aid that we can. S17 is not a high stats kid; we are not looking at ivies.

@sybbie719
We do not meet the threshold for AOTC and the 32K would only be in a two in college scenario which again might have given some opportunity at a high tuition LAC, clearly not as federal aid. However that number is no longer 32 so it’s irrelevant. Had it been, it would not have made an iota of difference at FAFSA only schools or ones that do not meet 100% need, I am aware of that. He is not a high stats kid; merit will be limited. He has some choices that will work for him thanks to WUE, that could have been expanded with a few LAC’s that had the potential for 100% need… He is well aware of the constraints financially and that even with WUE, one or two of the choices are borderline financially.

@blossom

No the ex is not in prison but he is not in the picture in any way. I have my children 24/7 with all legal rights. He is ordered to pay child support and is in significant arrears. He has a medical condition that has left him unable to work due to seizures but somehow cannot seem to qualify for SSDI which I am sure is entirely related to drug and alcohol abuse. There is no money to get, he’s literally living off of his mother and has been for at least a decade, she now has her own issues so he “takes care of her” allegedly. The state is already empowered to get what they can and at best it seems to be about $12 a month, for 3 months in a row until he loses that job and then if I am lucky, a year or two later, $12 magically shows up again thanks to garnishment. It amuses me to think of him being considered in the picture financially. TMI I am quite sure but I can’t see how it would be a factor in any scenario other than the pain of documenting the situation.

@suzy100
That is good to know about grad school, I was unaware. Much appreciated.

@mom2collegekids
There are zero schools I can see giving my son HUGE merit scholarships. That’s a lovely concept and we will go after what we can but HUGE is not an outcome I foresee for him. He is a junior with average stats, decent rigor and nice EC’s but nothing earth shattering. Good enough for some options in school choice from an admissions standpoint but not strong enough to expect much in the way of merit. For the kinds of schools I can afford given his stats (in-state and some WUE) that information is readily available in terms of what he might qualify for, or not, at least through the schools themselves.

The steps only received aid one year and only for the older child as he was at a smaller 100% need LAC during the one year he and his sister overlapped. My stepdaughter is not at a 100% need school, but rather an OOS school and receives zero aid. For my husband, that year of overlap helped him plan for her higher 4 year costs over time. So yes, it helped him.

@mommdc
No. That is not how this works. He will not be paying 50% for my children once his are done. And, given that it is likely my stepdaughter will continue on, he will still be paying while mine are in school for the majority of the time anyway. As it is, he will be making up the difference in retirement due to my inability to save what I’d have liked over the years of being a single mom, the lack of financial support from the bio dad and college expenses. People can agree or disagree whether that is a “fair” arrangement but our deal has always been you pay for yours, I pay for mine. He just gets the benefit of splitting that bill with someone else which means a vastly expanded list of schools that were considered for those children. It is the constraining of the list that bothered me but the list in my head was based on a false assumption and I’ve moved on. At the end of the day, schools will be chosen that are the best fit for my two, within financial reason. I did not say I could not afford a public in-state school.

S17 is not a high stats kid, but we will go after everything we can for him. S19 may have more options due to better stats but we will see how that shakes out when his time comes. I expect that to be the case.

@zoosermom
Yes, I have run the numbers, reviewed common data sets, etc. It changes the picture at the school in question which does meet 100% need. Need being relative of course. It seems cruel to me to consider a school that you know you cannot afford, that while a reach has always been a dream school for the child, and I won’t put my child through that. The chance of him finding an outside scholarship to make up the significant difference at that school (or multiple scholarships) is such a long shot that unless my son absolutely insists, it is off the list. Even if he does, it may be off the list. Program wise I am not convinced it is the best fit at all and frankly, will focus on that.

30

@zoosermom

The net price calculators will likely not be accurate for this student whose parent are both divorced,mand remarried…and have kids in both households. It would be a VERY loose estimate of the net costs at a school.

In addition, if any of these parents or step parents own a business, or are self employed, the calculators are not particularly accurate.

To the OP…there are 3000 colleges in this country. No one is required to attend a $64,000 a year college. If your kiddos are competitive applicants,mthey could apply where significant merit aid will come their way…guaranteed. This would reduce your out of pocket costs with no consideration of household size, income or the like. Lots of excellent choices out there…excellent.

As noted, Profile schools often ask for financials from everyone in these cases, so both parents AND both step parents.

The one college that uses the FAFSA only for consideration of need based aid is University of Chicago…but even they use a short school based form.

FAFSA only schools do not guarantee to meet full need…so if your EFC is $34,000, that would be the MINIMUM you would be exoected to pay at a FAFSA only school.

31

It might be more useful to you if you create a thread listing your son stats, major and what you can pay. That way people can give you ideas for schools he might get some merit at. You might be surprise. They may come up with options you never thought of.

32

@thumper1 thank you. As neither of the steps went to Profile schools this is not something I had run into and good to know. As my ex has no income to contribute I can’t see how that changes things but it is good to know. The steps mom is retired and frankly the though of having to ask her to share financials might be enough to disqualify a profile school right there lol. The question was not related to FAFSA only schools, I am aware they do not guarantee to meet full need.

I agree that no one is required to attend a 64,000 a year college, nor do I intend to. S17 will manage without the profile schools on his list, and for S19 I will have to address as it gets closer and we see what his merit chances are.

It is good information for me to have, it just means the lists are more constrained then possibly originally thought.

33

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1678964-links-to-popular-threads-on-scholarships-and-lower-cost-colleges.html#latest

Lots of good info in the links in the above thread.

Good luck!!

34

For ** your children** profile schools will need income assets for you, your current husband and ex-spouse through either the non-custodial profile or their own forms. They will not require anything from the mother of your stepchildren

35

It also doesn’t matter to the schools if ex husband can’t pay. He will have to fill out his part of the aid forms (non custodial parent profile) anyway, if he doesn’t, sons might not get aid.

36

@sybbie719 and @mommdc that seems irrelevant at this point. While S17 could theoretically benefit at a profile school for his years 3&4 and S19 for his years 1&2 while they overlap I would be unable to make up the difference in the “off” years. S19 may be able to get merit aid that does accomplish that but it is far too early to tell.

Ex cannot/will not be found so there is no one to fill out a form. If that negates any potential aid, then there is no aid.

37

<<<
There are zero schools I can see giving my son HUGE merit scholarships. That’s a lovely concept and we will go after what we can but HUGE is not an outcome I foresee for him. He is a junior with average stats, decent rigor and nice EC’s but nothing earth shattering.


[QUOTE=""]

[/QUOTE]

Well if your son has average stats, then likely the schools that “meet need” and require NCP info are either not on the list or wont likely accept your son…so the NCP issue may not apply in the end.

Merit is nearly always based on test scores and GPA. ECs arent usually a consideration except for down-selection for competitive merit.

What are your son’s stats? How much do you want your net costs to be?

What is his likely major?

THERE ARE schools that have lowish OOS costs, and schools that give merit for rather ok stats.

If I remember correctly, USouthDakota has a low cost OOS rate. There are a couple of UMaine schools that have low OOS costs…AND…give some merit for modest stats.

If your son is insisting on going OOS, then look at those schools…and look at the list of low cost schools.

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1651944-very-low-cost-oos-coa-universities-less-than-25k-coa-for-everything-p1.html

38

It doesn’t sound like your son is interested in an LAC or private school anyway, but his father’s situation could help, especially if it is well documented through social services or even you former MIL that ex is not available to fill out non custodial parent formsand will not pay. Waivers for NPC forms are sometimes easier to get than at other times, and your situation seems pretty documented that your can not locate him.

If your older stepchild went to an LAC that met full need, it is really likely your husband did fill out financial aid documents that year. Maybe you weren’t married then and he doesn’t remember. There just aren’t that many colleges handing out need based aid without the CSS Profile or at least school specific documents for both parents(and stepparents).

But your son will have lots of choices with instate and WUE schools. I really don’t think cutting your federal EFC in half would (will when both your sons are in school) get you enough needed based aid at any FAFSA only school as you are not Pell eligible, but if you still feel it is unfair you can vent away. It is what it is. Fill out the NPC as if you were still single, with just your salary and assets, and see if it would change things drastically. I think you’d still not have qualified for a lot of aid if you are not AOTC-eligible. I’m single, I have two in school at the same time, and no fafsa only school gave any need based aid. Sure, our EFC was cut from $40k to $20k/each the first year. Made no difference in aid at all except for one child’s loans would have been subsidized (for the other, not). It wasn’t a case of my saying ‘oh, a $20k EFC, I only have to pay half of the $40k I would have had to pay with only one in school.’ Nope, I still would have had to pay the full COA of $50k plus at that school. $20k or $40k EFC made no difference to my bottom line, I was full pay.

There are benefits to being married, but sometimes taxes and FAFSA are not areas where you do benefit. I understand the agreement to keep finances separate with your new spouse, but schools and the IRS don’t. You have to live with that too.

39

<<<
It might be more useful to you if you create a thread listing your son stats, major and what you can pay. That way people can give you ideas for schools he might get some merit at. You might be surprise. They may come up with options you never thought of.
<<<

Exactly. And please include home state and how much you want to pay. We probably could come up with some great suggestions.

I also suggest that he practice for both the SAT and ACT and retest a couple more times EACH test. TAKE BOTH TESTS. An increase can mean thousands and thousands of dollars!

Please copy/paste and answer, and we can do what we do best. lol

home state
intended major and career goal
SAT (include breakdown)
ACT
GPA both weighted and UW

What you need the net cost to be (not including student loans)

40

@twoinanddone and @mom2collegekids I actually do have a thread already on the topic, unfortunately I am a bit unclear in this forum how to link urls (I am sure I will figure it out but at the moment have yet to do so) and it did generate some ideas as well as confirm the list we were working on already and provide feedback on some of those schools. He is rather picky geographically, size/feel/culture and climate so that is a fairly large constraint to work with. Solid B+ kid, Medium rigor curriculum wise, disastrous test taker. EC’s are heavy in theater (tech), music and community service/environmental activities. Nothing earth shattering but he does have options.

Home state: WA

Intended major and career goal: Sustainable energy, the design of and the policies around it are the area of passion.

Majors under consideration are:

Sustainable Energy Engineering / Energy Engineering
Environmental Engineering - Energy focused (if offered) or with a minor in energy
Environmental Science - A few areas of interest
Environmental Studies - Primarily in areas of policy. He is also interested in environmental law but not really wanting to be a lawyer or go to law school.

He is much less of a soils and water kid than he is an energy one so we are avoiding Civil programs that have a small focus in Environmental or Environmental Engineering programs that were very broad (and as a result, very soil/water focused).

Ideal school would have a mix of the above should he change direction/focus or allow for electives in the other areas, dual major or minor.

SAT (include breakdown)

Has not taken, likely will not. Diagnostically the ACT was a better fit and convincing him to take the SAT in addition,even in its revised form, is not high on his list of things to do, he would rather work towards improving his ACT score

ACT: 24 testing again in June, current superscore is a 25, practice tests have been as high as 28. 28 is likely a long shot, pushing it but will make a difference if he can get it there for WUE at 3 of the schools on his list now. He should get some academic merit as it stands at those 3 at a lower tier but it could go up. Some of them superscore for WUE merit.

GPA UW 3.4. Is on track to potentially bring that up to a 3.5
Our school only reports unweighted, however were it to be weighted by the school he is currently at a 3.6 Assuming grades don’t fall off senior year which I don’t expect,the weighted could also go up as he will have 3 AP’s

Additional constraints

Wants: Rain, trees, northwest or west, liberal/moderate, strong theater and music program if possible, mountains a plus. Smaller school but with a decent “town”.

Does not want: Seattle, religious affiliated school, sun, desert, “beach” in the southern California sense, ultra conservative, “big” school with strong greek system/football presences, feeder school for big campus, community college, to live at home/commuter school.

Net cost is ideally in the 25 range, we are looking as high as 36 but that is a stretch at present.

Current college list that fit within his parameters, my cost targets and his current stats. 5 are affordable and 2 are pushing it. All have pro’s and cons.

Colorado State
Montana State
Western Washington University
Humboldt State
University of Wyoming
Oregon Institute of Technology
Evergreen State

Ones that have elements that would work (and some that don’t, mostly cost) and have been suggested at times, that he will not currently consider are:

Northern Arizona
University of Reno Nevada
Western Colorado State
Central Washington
Washington State University
Montana Tech
U of WA (and that is a stretch from an admissions standpoint)
Cal Poly
UC Santa Barbara, UC Santa Cruz or Cal State Monterey
Prescott
Portland State

At this point, with the focus on engineering and/or an ENVS dual major and the ability to have options should he change his mind, as well as net cost, all of the LAC’s originally under consideration have fallen off the list. There are some lovely LAC’s and a few that he really likes but between cost and a 3-2 option (should engineering be the path) which I don’t think is a good idea, it is probably just as well that cost will force them off. Some of those were reach schools academically as well. Which is ok but if we can’t afford them, kind of silly to waste time on it. It is a livable list but I would love any additional ideas.

We will be touring a few over spring break (Colorado State and U of Wyoming) and at that point, the direction of the major may become more clear as he will get to see programs in all of his areas of interest. Some of the schools have scholarships he could qualify to apply for, others have less. We will look both at school offered ones as well as outside sources.

Truly I think my emotional reaction was more tied to his younger brother who has very different aspirations and likely to be much much higher in his stats. But we have time to prepare and research and at the end of the day, he will be happy at UDub if that is what it comes down to.