FAFSA Frustration

<p>After having to fill out the FAFSA four times before, it looks like I blew it this year. I sold some bonds and took a tax free withdrawal from an IRA to pay medical bills. Now I find out that doing so all added to my income and my kid's Pell Grants are slashed by 30% of that amount (15% per child). After looking on the web for warnings about how to avoid this scenario, there does not seem to be anything out there.
So here is my advice, best taken before your student's junior year of highschool. A few caveats:
1. This is what I think is right from rumor and the school of hard knocks. Seek confirmation if you can. Perhaps others will clarify. Don't expect help from your financial aid office, they may not know what an IRA is.
2. Is it moral to juggle your financial situation to maximize your Pell grants and need-based aid? You must decide, but they made the rules, and I think that long as you answer the questions honestly, it is OK. I think I can spend money better than the government and until they decide to cut the size of government dramatically, I'd like to sop up all I can and direct it to what causes I think are best (publishing houses, local food, homeopaths).
3. This advice is from a family of eight with a household earned income of $60k and total net worth of $200k. If you have half the kids, twice the income, and twice the assets, following this advice might cost you more than it saves you. But at least the FAFSA will be less of a black box.</p>

<p>Kids should be broke:
Never save any money in your kid's name, don't get a 529, have them spend it all on cars, books, calculators, clothes, iron rations, or anything else that does not count as an asset on the FAFSA. Make them buy their own braces, car insurance, and gasoline -- you can always make it up to them later after they graduate. If they do save money, they lose 20% of it each year of college. That winds up depleting half of it in four years when you amortize it.</p>

<p>Kids should not work the year before they go to college:
Volunteer, study more, intern for free to find out what you want to do. This may increase merit scholarships (which often don't cover the EFC either). When I taught highschool, the kids closing the fast food joint were playing a losing game -- they spent it all on the car to get to work and their grades suffered. But the real reason for this rule is that student's income is even worse than savings. I don't even know how bad it is. The college may want it all.</p>

<p>The parents' home is their castle:
I live in a home most of you would consider unacceptable, and I have very little equity. Dumb, dumb, dumb. If my total net worth was invested in a mortgage free home, I would be golden. No EFC from that at all. As it is, my assets are costing each child 2.5% of their value per year in Pell grants. Maybe my kids don't deserve grants, but then neither do the children of someone who owns a $200k mansion free and clear and who drives cars that aren't rusted out (and they qualify for Pell bigtime). The solution -- sell assets and pay off your mortgage (if you are not in the zero percent tax bracket like me, this requires more thought, but you should save 4% in interest plus 2.5% for 4 years, so it ought to work for the 10% tax bracket as well). If you cannot sell the asset, borrow money against it to reduce its net worth. Even better than paying off your mortgage or buying a more expensive home is to pay off credit card, car, and other unsecured debt. That albatross does not help you on the FAFSA a bit.
But if the asset sale will show up as income on your tax return, like an EE bond, sell it two years before college starts or consider toughing it out.</p>

<p>Relax, get some margin:
Parents’ income is much worse than savings. With two kids in school, my Pell punishment means that my second job at night pays 30% less than take home. Why should I suffer that much for $10/hour? I should go home and garden, cook meals instead of eating out, fix my own house and car instead of using post-tax dollars, and live a healthier life-style instead of paying docs to fix me. Less trips to work means less gas to buy with post-tax dollars. I could read more and find out how to maximize Pell grants before the kids graduate. You get the idea. If you want to go back to school part-time or full-time, your kid's senior year in high school is the time to start. Lower that income!
If you own your own business, this is the time to make some capital expenditures, build up inventory, and live off borrowed money rather than paying yourself out of the business.</p>

<p>How to save:
Retirement savings don't hurt you on the FAFSA, and if you really need some money badly to help your kid through college, you can pull at least $10k out without penalty (but don't unless you can't borrow against an asset and try to wait until their senior year when it won't matter). Putting money in a traditional IRA during the kids' college years is not the best time -- they still figure 15% of it was available to pay for each student's tuition and hit you accordingly. Better to save more before they are in college, but don't save for college, save for your retirement instead. I am not clear about whether 403b's and 401k's will exempt that year's income from EFC consideration, but it appears that they might be exempt based on the questions on the FAFSA (things that go on 1040 lines 28 and 32 hurt your EFC). Paying off your house, making improvements, or buying a better house are always safe ways to save. Buying and paying off a business, or if you live on it, a farm, are also good.</p>

<p>I would love to hear advice on how to minimize EFC even more, and any corrections to my theories.</p>

<p>Owning a business or a farm are sure fire ways to increase your EFC. Those are viewed as assets.</p>

<p>From FAFSA.ed.gov current year application:</p>

<p>"Business value does not include the value of a small business that you or your parents own and control more than 50 percent and that has 100 or fewer full-time or full-time equivalent employees.</p>

<p>Investment farm value does not include the value of a family farm that you or your parents live on and operate."</p>

<p>It takes quite a business to have 99 employees. You can custom hire all your machine work and still “operate” a farm.</p>

<p>Have you asked about a special circumstances adjustment for the medical expenses? Medical bills are one of the things a school can make an adjustment for.</p>

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<p>I would not call this “losing money”. I would call it “paying your own bills” and also “not mooching off taxpayers and full/higher pay students at their college”. Just saying.</p>

<p>Re: Special Circumstances
They say if you itemize medical bills as a tax deduction it is double dipping, but they can’t tell me what, if anything would result on the Pell if I amend the tax return to take off the medical bills and pay more in taxes. I haven’t decided whether to gamble on that one.</p>

<p>Re: Mooching off the taxpayers.
You have a point, and I recognize this in my point 2 in the original post.
Our government has many disincentives for hard work and paying your own way. You can view almost every cost externalization and malinvestment it causes as leading to someone mooching off the taxpayer, whether it is the CEO of a defense firm or the shack-up honey with a kid, a nephew, and $12k in income getting a $9k tax refund. We all have to make a call on which teat we sidle up to, but none of succeed in avoiding them all.</p>

<p>All good advice, but I agree with intparent. If you take this advice to the extreme, it would make sense to stop working altogether (or at least do what many low income families do around here - figure out the income level that gets you the most tax credits, and best government benefits, and stop working when you reach that each year).</p>

<p>That family that owns a $200,000 house outright do not often qualify for Pell grants - they had to earn the income used to pay for that house over time. And at least in our neighborhood, a $200,000 house is no mansion. More like a starter home, needing some work.</p>

<p>If you think your second job hurts you, try it with a higher base income. For every $10 I earn, $4 pays taxes (federal income tax, state income tax, social security, medicare…), and half of the remaining $6 adds to our EFC - so I take home $3, and get to pay any work related expenses from that. </p>

<p>You’re saying not to have your kid work - your kid can work and earn up to $6000, before it gets dinged toward EFC. Perhaps your kid should work a bit, rather than you getting an extra job. Yes, it can take time away from stidying, but good students seem able to find a way to study more efficiently, and can benefit from learning better time management.</p>

<p>The financial aid system was designed to help people, not give handouts. If you don’t qualify for Pell grants, celebrate the fact that you are in a better financial position than those who do. Celebrate that you’re not wondering how you’re going to decide between paying to heat your home or feed your kids next week. Rants about how you don’t get as much “free” money as last year is a real turn-off to those of us expected to come up with $25,000 per year for our kids to attend a local state school, because that free money doesn’t grow on trees - it comes out of our paychecks.</p>

<p>Although good intentioned and generally some useful info, I think the OP’s advice leaves out so many details and caveats that it winds up being a bit misleading (I know not by choice). </p>

<p>The “don’t work between junior and senior year” idea - what? $6k allowance AND even if they earn more than that they have more money for college, FAFSA counting or not. Now, ALSO volunteering and studying for SAT/ACT IS useful advice and can save $$$ on college.</p>

<p>“Don’t use 529’s” - ??? What about the parent’s asset/investment allowance (based on oldest parent’s age)? $40-$50k or so is not considered by FAFSA- 529 or otherwise.</p>

<p>“Don’t save in IRA the year before college”. Sorry, that money you earned counts on FAFSA either way - whether you get a tax break for the IRA/401K deduction or not. Not a smart move to stop saving for retirement!</p>

<p>Some other good advice and a good discussion though.</p>

<p>Wow, I guess it’s kinda handy to have all the old wives’ tales in one place . . .</p>

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<p>Not true, 529’s are assessed as a parent asset, not as a student asset. Resulting assessment = 5.64%, not 20%.</p>

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<p>Both of the above comments apply only if the student limits his or her applications to FAFSA-only schools, which sounds like what this family did. I’m guessing that the students who are already in college have been covering their costs with student loans. With low income and multiple siblings, the younger kids in this family might do better to look at Profile schools, which tend to be much more generous with financial aid. If they qualify for admission, they might be able to fund their education at some of the more competitive Profile schools with nothing but grants, summer earnings, and work study, rather than relying on student loans . . . and they’ll end up paying less for their education than if they attend FAFSA-only schools.</p>

<p>Seems like an awful lot of work for a maximum $5500 dollar a year Pell grant. See, I would rather make more money, even when it results in a higher EFC. Why? If, let’s say, 30% of my extra money gets added back into my EFC and another 40% goes to taxes, I’m still left with 30% MORE MONEY. I figure I come out ahead. I mean, it’s MY kid. Why shouldn’t I be the one paying for her to go to school?</p>

<p>My dad started a fitness business this year and the amount of money he invested in the business lowered our EFC by 2000 dollars</p>

<p>I do not believe it is “immoral” to set yourself up for optimal financial aid from college. It’s called smart planning. Done all the time to get Grandma eligible for Medicaid, and that needs 5 years of planning before hand as too many people were doing it to avoid depleting her assets for her care when there federal government will step in when there are no assets.</p>

<p>But do be aware that the situation can truly depend on the choices a student has. Even more important, college is not the be all and end all. To live ones life fixated on maximizing college financial aid is not the way I would recommend anyone to go.</p>

<p>First of all, if you know your children are not going to be going to those schools that guarantee to met full need, that they are going to be in the market for FAFSA only schools, gearing some things to the FAFSA makes some sense. But be aware that if a student is looking at the PROFILE schools, things like home equity being shielded go away. As a general rule, the more assets a parent has socked away, not in the kids’s name but in the parents’, the more choices the kid is going to have. Parents have an asset protection amount, and the hit on assets over than amount is 5.6% rather than the hefty 20% on the students’ assets. </p>

<p>Before going much further with this, I want to point out that FAFSA schools do not tend to meet 100% of need anyways, so even having that zero EFC is not necessarily going to make a huge difference in many students’ lives and to go through contortions to achieve that goose egg is not worth it. You get a maximum of $5600 of PELL money with a rock bottom zero EFC. It’s an auto zero if you can file a short form for taxes and have an AGI (I believe or other income figure, do check as you should check every thing before going onit) of $23K for parental income. That’s the ONLY federal guarantee that a zero EFC will give you if the cost of college supports it.</p>

<p>Then you have the Stafford Loans which are available for all students that meet FAFSA requirements (citizen, no major drug conviction, etc) which are maxed out at $5500 for freshman year and go up a bit each subsequent year. Some of those loans can be subsidized if your student demonstrated need with the EFC and Cost of Attendance (COA) of his college that is unmet elsewhere. </p>

<p>And, that is all, a zero EFC student is entitled to get, and the loan is gettable regardless of EFC most of the time. The rest is like buying lottery tickets Now some states do have additional programs for low income families or maybe all families, and if that is the case, there is more guaranteed money, but usually not enough for a kid to go off to sleep away college for “free”. Even in my state where there is TAP (NY state money) and low state tuition costs, a zero EFC kid is going to have to come up with about $5K minimum to go away to a state SUNY. None of our state school guarantee to meet need and the rarely do meet 100% of it. </p>

<p>Parental income is the primary target for determining cost. What you make the years under scrutiny for FAFSA and other financial aid calculators is hit very, very hard as it indicates not only what your current financial situation is, but assumes that you have saved in a way someone making that amount today would have, and also figures what you can afford to borrow in the future. Not accurate, as who knows what any individual made in the past and will make in the future, but averages is the way this works, and “them’s the rules”. So EFC is made up of your income as reported on your tax return with any 401K like contributions you may have made and deducted from your taxable income added back in. All that comes right off of your tax form. Better to make a deal with medical and other bills owed to pay back what you owe little by little over the college years than pulling the money out of the 401K or IRA because, yes, absolutely you do have to include that amount as income for that year, just as you do have to do so for taxes. If you can show a college what you paid in medical bills with that withdrawal, some professional judgement might be made for that, by the way, and is someting you might consider, but it had better be clear proof as to what happened. I’ve actually seen situations, where yes, medical bills were sky high for a given year, and yes money was withdrawn from the accounts, but the bills did not get paid. Or the bills did not get paid but families want consideration for the fact that they were incurred. Nope. Gotta be paid. But, yes, it is a big hit to withdraw form sheltered assets in terms of EFC.</p>

<p>The other thing that a parent needs to consider is remarrying. Doesn’t matter if there is a legal prenup or what the agreement is about the step’s contribution is for college support. His/her income and assets are included. So maybe a ceremony and wait for the actual marriage certificate is in order if a lot of money is on the line. There was an article I read about a set of twins who were on a nice fin aid ride as mom did not make much and NCP,the dad’s, financials were not included on FAFSA. Mom remarried, and the step quashed the finanical aid awards simply because he made some money and had some assets. Too bad that he did not want to pay for his step sons’, whom he barely met, college bills. Them’s the rules.</p>

<p>Students can work and make up to $6K a year, I believe without having earning affect the EFC. After that it’s 50% of earnings. And every dollar a student has as a reportable asset is hit up 20 cents on the EFC. Every student who is looking for financial aid should open an account with the parents’ name and SSN primary on it, and put any money in there that are not financial aid/scholarship proceeds. Then it is under the parent’s asset protection or 5.6% hit if it so exceeds. Those funds should be designated as student contributions and reimbursements for costs </p>

<p>So a student should not eschew work or savings. There is some benefit of doing so and saving for college even if you do get hit with the “student penalties”. It;s not 100% of what is netted, though if the expenses of working or having the funds leads to spending more., that can happen. But, kids who salt away a nice bit for college do have more options as a rule than those who do not. </p>

<p>A lot of the problems with paying for college these days comes from the fact that there is not a lot of savings for it. When I was kid, there were the savings bonds that seemed to be standard gifts and awards. Also, in my family, the kids, I and my brothers, saved for college. We worked during the year, babysitting and doing other odd jobs and getting paid, and put about half of what we earned into savings as well as tithing any allowance for the same. We also worked summers. So even though my dad, the sole bread winner of our family did not make much money, we all had college savings and so did he. With 529s , there can be some nice state tax breaks in saving as well, and 529s are included as parental assets so are only hit up the 5.6%. </p>

<p>The cost of college is the sum of past, current and future income of both student and parents. Any financial aid the colleges give, any scholarships earned, can lower that cost as can choosing lower cost schools. Your savings are the past income, current is what you make now and can cut back on, and future is what you can afford to borrow. If you are in an income bracket where you can’t write that check for the full amount and send your kids to a 4 year slumber party, the kid is going to have to work those years s/he is in school on weekends, maybe a few hours during the week and during the summer. You are going to have to tighten the belt to pay what your share of the college costs are. You’ll get some savings with one less mouth to feed at home, if the kid is away, and the utilities bills are likely to go down too. Maybe your car insurance can be lowered. But it means tightening the budget belt even tighter. If you take out parent loans, it’s smart to start paying on them right away as you can then feel the impact and know when you are getting in too deep. It is highly unlikely that you are going to have more money than you have saved in the past and are scrimping on right now in the present, in th future where everyone likes to push things. </p>

<p>Yes, owning a house can help in terms of “hiding” assets since home equity is not included as such for the primary home on FAFSA. But only if it works out. My home has no equity, and many are in that situation, so that it’s rather a moot point. And homes can need all kinds of things which mine does. It’s not a guaranteed panacea. Also any PROFILE schools will use home equity, though they do cap it. But yes, if you owe on a home and can open a low interest home equity loan line, it might be a good idea to take the money out of your account and pay off your mortgage so you don’t get hit the 5.6% of parental assets that the EFC uses over the parental asset allowance. Just realize that the money might not be as easily accessible when you do that and if the value of your home goes down it gives you less time to recoup that money if you need it. </p>

<p>My SiL’s niece and nephew are currently at state schools, and one did not get a red cent despite a very low EFC. Two in college, low income, house paid off (given to them by parents long ago), limited assets but PSU gave the one nothing other than some PELL, the Staffords, maybe a bit more in some low income grant, not even $1K, some work study. Not only that, he was required to attend the summer term for an additional cost. That the Stafford and work study were included in the package meant that the loans could not be used to pay the EFC, and the hours for the kid to work were also locked into the package and could not be used toward EFC either, along with the summer when he had to come to school. Drexel did not meet need either, though he could possibly commute there bringing the cost actually close to PSU that first year with the requred summer term costs. There was no embarrassment of riches in store for this family, I assure you, to pay the college costs. And with just OK test scores not much in the way of scholarships. Another cousin with higher test scores got some options which I described in an old thread I wrote as to how one family is doing it. <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1367319-how-families-sometimes-do.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1367319-how-families-sometimes-do.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Just to make it clear about IRAs and 401 Ks: ANY withdrawals from them are considered income less the taxes you have to pay on the withdrawal , as you do subtract out the federal tax you pay that year from the AGI reported. If you are contributing to these plans, you have to add back in those contributions to an IRA and 401 K to your AGI for that given year which the 1040 allows you to subtract out. You can borrow from the 401k and that is not reportable income, and that is restricted and regulated by the rules for your 401K. Some permit borrowing, some don’t and there are variations as to what the terms and limits are on such a loan. What it comes down to is that though you can subtract out your 401K type contributions from your taxable income for tax purposes each year, that subtraction is not recognized by FAFSA, so you have to add that amount back in. What you already contributed in previous years, remains sheltered.</p>

<p>Financial aid is set up so that everyone can attend a local state college. It’s not to pay for sleep away costs, though it can end up doing so for those intrepid enough to find a school cheap enough and/or get the fund through the school or other aid. Most of us live close enough to a community college or other local state school so that any college aged person can commute there and work part time for the commuting costs. The tuition/fees costs of such schools can be paid by PELL for those whose families make very little money, or through Stafford loans for those whose parents can’t and won’t pay, even if they are deemed able to do so. The average college student is in his/her mid twenties and beyond, goes to school part time and works at least part time, slowly making his/her way to a degree, if ever getting there. Forget the Frat party tv sitcoms and movies. This is the reality, which I’ve yet seen heavily focused up by entertainment. Not very entertaining, for sure.</p>

<p>If your kid can swing the 2 year local college without the loans, borrow the money anyways and have it in a designated account by itself so it does not have to be reported for the next years’ FAFSAs and when it comes time to transfer to a 4 year school away, that 's about $12 that can go towards those costs as well as the additional amounts that the kid can borrow for the school year. The big problem with the community/local college commute route is that if there is no 4 year school within commutable distance, then you gotta live on campus and there will be costs for that. But then you have 2 years left, rather than 4 and a kid with a track record instead of having that 40% chance of flushing out that such kids have, so at that point, borrowing becomes a less shaky investment. And parents should be salting the money away those two years at the local school in preparation for the next 2 away in such cases as well.</p>

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<p>This is just untrue. A kid should always work after graduation, if possible. Certainly, there are circumstances, volunteering for experience, unpaid internships, etc, but earning too much much money is never a reason NOT to work. Seriously, at minimum wage for 10 weeks, a kid on average is only going to make approximately 2800 give or take, and thats before taxes. That is NOT going to derail a financial aid package, and if it does, that means the school was probably too expensive in the first place. In this economy, you want to get a job when you can. Also, for my kids, we will pay for everything, except, their spending money(pizza, laundry, snacks, etc), so they have to work to have spending money to take to school with them. It teaches them to budget that money during the school year.</p>

<p>Prairiedad, the cousin I have discussed in the thread I have cited, has worked since he was 15 at an official job, on weekends and holidays and summers to save up what he did for college. Had to find rides to work, until he bought a car, car hs since died and he’s bumming rides to work and hoping half heartedly to get another. It’s not easy, and I agree when kids get a job and need a car for the job, the job can then be needed to support the danged car. As one who now needs a new car and the finances are not adding up to get one I fully understand the problem. Sigh…A car is also the problem when one has commuting as an option as many places do not have mass transit options. My aunt used to drive my one cousin to college at 5AM, and he’d stay there till he finished classes AND could get a ride home, or have to wait till the evening for her to pick him up. He commuted to the state U an hour away. But by the end of the year, he had worked out a ride system with others in the same situation as he was but with a cars willing to give rides for some gas money.</p>

<p>Thanks for those who have explained that the student could earn $6000 a year without a penalty for the earning, I had been unable to get any information on that. Thanks also for pointing out that a 529 is considered as a non-exempt parental asset, not a student asset.</p>

<p>I hope that everyone else is learning as much about other classes as I am. I cannot relate to someone who thinks $200k is not much of a house. As far as work, my time is worth $10 and hour or more to me. I can do things for myself that I would otherwise pay post-tax dollars for at that rate and make money. Doesn’t work for the first 40 hours per week because I can’t function without some cash, but beyond that, I lose if I work and don’t get $10 after taxes, FICA, commuting, and Pell Deductions.</p>

<p>If it helps, forget about the Pell. One kid gets 100% of COA minus EFC. So I don’t care about the Pell, just the EFC.</p>

<p>Prairiedad, the financial aid “game” is a crazy one that is so difficult to figure out. You seem to have done well for your children with the two in college.</p>

<p>In my area, one cannot get a house for $200K. They just don’t exist. A studio maybe. Go into some neighborhoods that are dangerous, not just shabby but where you are risking your life, maybe you canfind something. but when you live in some part of the US, housing is ridiculoulsy expensive. With fixed costs so high, a big salary doesn’t go as far, but financial aid calculations take none of that into consideration. My friends I left in the midwest 15 yars ago almost all have their houses paid off. I’ll never reach that milestone here. What we sold our house for there, was just part of the down payment here. </p>

<p>What’s even more difficult is that for many, the pay is not much more. Work in retail as a clerk or other job that is similar nationwide, they pay exactly the same. It can be a tough go.</p>

<p>Hopefully, you are getting the jist of how EFC works. You want to make sure the college kids do not have assets in their name. You, too, should not be filling out FAFSA on payday. Make sure those accounts don’t have a big check sitting there.</p>

<p>PrairieDad -</p>

<p>You can find the current FAFSA formula by googling EFC Formula 2014. Print out the PDF so that you can work through it on paper. That way you will see which factors are effecting your kids’ EFCs this year. The formula changes a bit from one year to another, and the new one will be available sometime next fall.</p>

<p><a href=“http://ifap.ed.gov/efcformulaguide/attachments/091312EFCFormulaGuide1314.pdf[/url]”>http://ifap.ed.gov/efcformulaguide/attachments/091312EFCFormulaGuide1314.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;