<p>t’s also easy to give simplistic answers like “go to CC”. Our local CC’s suck and don’t even offer classes, yet alone programs remotely related to what my kids want to study. In fact the in-state public colleges, with one exception, are strictly bottom of the barrel.</p>
<p>What state are you in?</p>
<p>CCs are really mostly for General Ed course, so if your children have some unique majors, those are pursued once they’re at a 4 year. </p>
<p>You must live in a state with a pretty bad system if they can’t find something at one of the schools. </p>
<p>Also merit-based aid only goes so far, and not nearly enough.</p>
<p>* We got into financial dire straights, but why should my kids, who work very hard in school are straight A students pay the price of our misfortune *</p>
<p>??? If your kids are as accomplished and achieving as you claim, they can get free tuition or more. How much are you expecting? **It sounds like you don’t want to pay ANYTHING. ** If your children get free tuition, then a student loan and a $5-7k or so contribution from you should cover the rest…maybe with your children contributing from a summer job. </p>
<p>*
education is a purchase, not a right. *</p>
<p>It is a purchase. **What is your EFC? and how much do you want to pay? ** I can’t understand your post. You make it sound like you’re lowish income, but have an unaffordable EFC. </p>
<p>However, the reality sounds like you have a good income and an unaffordable EFC because of high credit card debt.</p>
<p>So, say that debt is totally because of poor decision making. I fall into that category, for instance, agreed to buy stuff that my spouse has wanted and then have trouble paying off the credit cards. I am a pushover and like to see people happy. But my question is, so the FAFSA shows the EFC of the family is way beyond the cost of the school, then the student, who has a parent like me, has to take out loans to pay for college. So, they are penalized for my poor decisions and will start their life out in debt. I know the FAFSA has to be fair but this is not my D1’s fault or the fault of countless others. I know I do not stand alone here. It is the same for children who’s parents will not support them and help out with college costs in any way. It is not the fault of the student. As for CC’s they didn’t have my D1’s major and there was no way she could go to a CC and risk falling behind and not being able to take the necessary classes.</p>
<p>I’m going to start by asking, quite honestly (no sarcasm), what major is so specific that a student 1. has to begin its courses right away as a freshman and 2. can’t find anything transferable at the local cc? There’s probably one out there, but even engineering majors take a bunch of gen courses year one. </p>
<p>Then, let me go on to say I sympathize and I don’t. I hate to see bright kids working long hours to pay the school bills because they’re on their own. But my d also made choices based on finances, which meant giving up her first chioce school and going with one that would cost us below our EFC. And I do not feel cheated at all by this. Yes, her stats were way higher than 3/4 of the student body. So what? High school stats cease to matter the day college classes start. The idea that she has a “right” to a certain type of school based on her stats is poppycock.</p>
<p>But my question is, so the FAFSA shows the EFC of the family is way beyond the cost of the school, then the student, who has a parent like me, has to take out loans to pay for college. So, they are penalized for my poor decisions and will start their life out in debt.</p>
<p>Students can graduate with loans of roughly $20K -$24 that are manageable. If your education isn’t worth going into debt for that much, then perhaps working to save the money or finding employment which will subsidize further education would be better.</p>
<p>Community colleges have history/math/language/english/science/humanities courses, plenty to fulfill meet the needs of most students first two years of college.</p>
<p>Students don’t declare a major in college until junior year- while science majors do need to have all their ducks in a row with pre-reqs the first two years of college- community colleges do offer chem/bio/physics & calc to help them with that.</p>
<p>Students also have ( in most school districts) the opportunity in high school to take advanced placement classes ( all students can take the tests), which can earn them advanced standing when they get to college, another way to save money. ( International baccalaureate program also can earn credits)</p>
<p>For top students- advanced placement credits combined with merit aid can really knock college costs down to be more manageable. It is the student who doesn’t qualify for merit & who didn’t do well with AP testing, that is more likely to be full pay.<-----( or if they insist on attending a school with need only aid & limited credit for AP courses- but why would they do that, when there are so many other choices?)</p>
<p>My D1 is a dance major. You have to start right away or at least continue with dance to keep up your skills. Sure she could have continued to go to her home studio but she would not have grown and progressed. She already gone there 10+ years and had about maxed out. She needed a new program, new teachers. You just don’t have that level of dance at a CC.</p>
<p>Does college really help with a dance career?
I know a dancer who attended NYU. She didn’t realize how limited they were with aid & when her single mother died she couldn’t continue- however she is very skilled & she has been dancing professionally ( with Alvin Ailey) ever since.</p>
<p>My D1 didn’t feel prepared to go off into the world without any additional training. She wanted to have a degree so that when she opens up her own studio someday she can show parents that she has a degree. She would like to dance professionally for some time and then open a studio someday. She is planning on dbl majoring or at least minoring but not sure as to what at this point. She thinks businees may give her some background to help with opening up her own business.</p>
<p>Yes FAFS is ridiculous. I think most of us lol when we saw what we were expected to contribute. My biggest problem is that they don’t take in to consideration multiple kids in a family and the kids are spread out. Really doesn’t make sense to me to give a family a break when they have kids attending college at the same time but not when they are seperated by years. It is not like the parents have more money from savings, current income and future income.</p>
<p>If parent ability to pay was not taken into account then no one would ever save for their kid’s college. There would be no incentive to. The line has to be drawn somewhere. </p>
<p>If a parent makes the decision not to save and the child’s education suffers then that is on the parent. It is not up to the rest of us to make up the difference. </p>
<p>The child is impacted by the choices of the parents. That is just the way it is. Like my father told me - “Life is hard. Get a helmet.”.</p>
<p>Really doesn’t make sense to me to give a family a break when they have kids attending college at the same time but not when they are seperated by years. It is not like the parents have more money from savings, current income and future income.</p>
<p>Our kids are far apart too. However- as the youngest was only 11 when her sister entered college- we still had a child tax credit which I believe lowered our EFC as well. Now that we have only one child left in college- we are full pay.</p>
<p>lambb - Very few of us have the means to purchase all the things that we want, but at least we can make choices according to our values. There’s no absolute right or wrong here, so don’t beat yourself up. You and your family can enjoy a lot of what life has to offer for the price of one college education!</p>
<p>I agree with you kjeavus. I think it is broken and a stupid system that quite frankily doesn’t properly analyze whether you need financial assistance or not ( which is what financial aid is). If you really think about it is judge whether or not you can afford to pay for college that’s what it is. Of course I bring some biase to this story. Here’s my background, my mother makes about 160k a year living in an area that is costly to live, one bedroom apartments are extremely expensive, let’s just put it that way. My father is broke and jobless and has caused my mother about more than I would want to state publicly in debt. So she is forced to provide for 3 people now and granted we live in a house that is not so great 3 bedroom etc… Fine for living not so great looking lol. So FASFA will likely grant me absolutely nothing. My mother has no way of helping me nor my brother out. Yet someone that grew up in a 40k a year income house hold living about the same as I am, gets at least half of their expenses covered. That’s broken if you ask me. Not to mention I have a friend that lives in a 2 million dollar home, dad retired and mother is a elementary school teacher, Beamers and Mercedes in the drive way, LOADED from when the dad worked, gets 27k for USF(San Francisco). How the hell does that make any sense at all. that’s over half of USFs tuition. I’m confused how anyone thinks this system is fair lol.</p>
<p>I totally agree with the original poster. I’m in the exact situation. I live in a super high cost of living area, to be close to family. Our expected EFC is like $24k. After taxes, property tax, home owners insurance, health insurance, mortgage, utilities. We drive a 10+ years old car, our vacations are never more than camping. We have not that many nice things. But cost of living where we are at is high. Some of the highest insurance costs and property tax.</p>
<p>Growing up my parents told me to put myself through college which I did. But at that time room and board and tuition was less than $10k, so a person making $20k-30k a year could afford it. Now fast forward less than 10 years that same education is about $20k for room and board and tuition. But the salaries for your people with degrees is only $20-35k without a degree. You understand that the costs are way out of control compared to pay scale. In addition having a degree is like a ticket to ride. there are no more $25-30 dollar an hour jobs without degrees unless you have some weird neptism hook up. Or learn a trade which involves a trade school that isn’t cheap either. Not to say there are the select few with their own street smarts and wit that become rich.</p>
<p>But the costs are out of hand. 10 yrs ago UC Davis tuition and room and board was less than $16k, now tuition alone is $14k and about $10-12k room and board. With an average COA for UCs at $31k. Pay has not increased for more people by 50-100% as tuition has increased.</p>
<p>Not to say that with scrapping and eating ramen etc, I’m sure we could come up with $8-10k to contribute per year, but it would be very tight. But $24k that the calculator says is impossible.</p>
<p>Lamb Quote…So, say that debt is totally because of poor decision making. I fall into that category, for instance,* agreed to buy stuff that my spouse has wanted and then have trouble paying off the credit cards.** I am a pushover and like to see people happy. But my question is, so the FAFSA shows the EFC of the family is way beyond the cost of the school, then the student, who has a parent like me, has to take out loans to pay for college. So, they are penalized for my poor decisions and will start their life out in debt. I know the FAFSA has to be fair but this is not my D1’s fault or the fault of countless others.*</p>
<p>Iron Maiden Quote:*
If parent ability to pay was not taken into account then no one would ever save for their kid’s college. There would be no incentive to. The line has to be drawn somewhere.</p>
<p>If a parent makes the decision not to save and the child’s education suffers then that is on the parent. It is not up to the rest of us to make up the difference. *</p>
<p>Iron Maiden is right. Otherwise, those with good incomes would just continue to buy “stuff” and then what? </p>
<p>I realize that there are situations where one spouse is a spender and the other spouse can’t/won’t say “no,” but the blame needs to stay where it belongs. If anything, the subject of college should be the “go to” reason why saying “no” is necessary when a spouse has the “gimmes”. It’s not FAFSA’s calculations fault.</p>
<p>Santookie quote: *Not to say that with scrapping and eating ramen etc, I’m sure we could come up with $8-10k to contribute per year, but it would be very tight. But $24k that the calculator says is impossible. *</p>
<p>EFC is not based on what people can pay out of current income. There’s an assumption of that it will come from past savings, current income, future income.</p>
<p>That said, there are a lot of people who can’t pay $25k per year for their child to “go away” to school. That’s why most commute to a local state school. Paying for room and board is a luxury.</p>
<p>there are no more $25-30 dollar an hour jobs without degrees unless you have some weird neptism hook up</p>
<p>Consider the trades: general construction, or specific skilled jobs such as electrician, plumber, concrete guy, carpenter, roofer, etc. I don’t know why people overlook the trades; they can provide a very nice income, certainly even better than $25-30/hr once you’ve paid your dues.</p>
<p>*But cost of living where we are at is high. *</p>
<p>I also live in a high cost of living area- but to me- it is worth it ( for right now) if it wasn’t, I would move.
I assume others- who have high enough incomes that precludes qualifying for much aid but live in a high cost area, have also decided that it is worth it to stay put- for the time being.
We all make choices & those choices impact future choices.
EFC is meant to be paid out of savings, current income & future income.
No it isn’t easy but no one is forcing students to attend college.</p>
<p>There are many options for colleges that the OP can likely afford…Apparently,they are not good enough and expect someone else to pay for the costs to attened the dream school…go to the school you can AFFORD,nit the one you covet and can’t pay for</p>
Someone will have to explain to me where the magic font of money is for low income families. As far as I know the only difference in federal funding for college between my family and a very needy one is Stafford subsidization and a Pell Grant. I don’t begrudge a $5500 grant to someone who really needs it. Now if we’re talking about Institutional Aid given out by the college, it’s up to them how to distribute that. They may choose to award merit aid or FA.</p>
<p>I was shocked too. Not with the FAFSA, but when my husband forced me to sit down with a financial planner when my kids were 5 and 3, and I learned not only that I was expected to pay for my kids college (what??? When did THAAT happen???), but what it was likely to cost when they went. From what I’ve learned here, the problem is not with the FASFA, it is with the escalating costs of college. The FAFSA is about finding out who gets federal money, making it a “right” to get the very basic upper level of education; costs of books and tuition at a CC, and if you are lucky, help paying for rent and food while you do it. Sort of like section 8 housing and medicaid. The only way “financial aid” might be to blame, is that it allowed families expectations to change, and think that higher education means access to the best; like a mansion and concierge medicine. I think the price wouldn’t have risen so much so fast if it wasn’t for “financial aid”.</p>
<p>Still, I think Pell grants and the like can change a families trajectory.</p>
<p>As far as I know the only difference in federal funding for college between my family and a very needy one is Stafford subsidization and a Pell Grant</p>
<p>Some states may also have grants/awards for students who attend instate colleges.</p>
<p>My oldest was eligible for a governors grant which would have paid her money to attend any instate ( private or public) college- it wasn’t huge but it would have lowered loans. ( she wasn’t eligible for Pell)
She still opted to go out of state & I don’t believe this award is still being offered.
( cutbacks everywhere)
Some colleges also may participate in Perkins loans, which is still a loan, but it is low interest.</p>
<p>Her high school didn’t offer AP classes and she wasn’t interested in taking the AP tests without the prep of the classes ( her school taught courses that were in-depth rather than the massive amounts of broader material that AP classes often are & she already spent hours on homework), but I do know quite a few kids who did very well on the AP tests and as a result are graduating in less than four years from the flagship university.
Huge money saver & combine that with the tuition credits their parents were savvy enough to buy when the kids were small & their parents are now watching their kids go through college with only minimal financial outlay. so jealous.</p>
<p>Students who are serious candidates for the most competitive schools( which generally offer need based aid only) , are also the same students who would be serious candidates for merit aid at other schools.</p>
<p>It’s fine & dandy to whinge about costs- we all do it- but at some point you have to decide what your priorities/goals are & then make a plan to accomplish that.</p>
