<p>What ScienceGuy doesn’t realize is that even if he were low income and he had a 0 EFC, he wouldn’t get much to cover the OOS cost of Rutgers as a transfer student. He probably would only get a 5550 Pell Grant and a 5500 student loan and not much else. The school costs over $40k per year. How would he then pay the balance if his family only made $40k per year? </p>
<p>Rutgers OOS</p>
<p>Out-of-state tuition and fees: … $25,416<br>
Room and board: … $11,262<br>
Books and supplies: … $1,431<br>
Estimated personal expenses: … $1,631 </p>
<p>i’ll be the one to defend him. my family makes $100k+ but have had a difficult time financially due to multiple layoffs on my dads part. he went back to school at age 50 like so many other people so he could be competitive in the job market and is still having a very difficult time finding employment. we got by because my mom was lucky. she could have easily been laid off as well or been paid much less than she is. (very much overpaid for what she does). luck. not anything else. </p>
<p>do you understand why so many youth in OWS are so angry? yes, i will agree that part of that is probably some sense of entitlement. however, essentially every country in the WORLD is cheaper than the US school system. i am looking to go out of country because that is one of my only affordable options. you can call it entitlement that the youth are now expecting universal education, but i think it’s quite sad that those older than us can’t understand how disappointed we are in the system surrounding us. i don’t know…i’m assuming that in large part it’s a disillusionment. you have lived in this system so long that you’re just accustomed to getting screwed over. it’s either go to college, get saddled in debt and not find a job. OR don’t go to college, work an awful minimum wage job, and still end up barely affording necessities. you can’t hope for anything better for children and those surrounding you? yeah i guess you can call that entitlement then! i do want something better for the rest of the world!</p>
<p>my father has by no means had an easy time. he did what many of you would suggest. he was the first in his family to graduate college and he did so through military service and working himself hard to graduate quickly and go into the job market. even he is extremely angry at the way it’s played out for my financial future. they started saving before i was born to go to college and were careful with finances. but, even a family making over $100k does not have $200k laying around in the bank to pay for college. most don’t even have $100k. understand how difficult the economy is and stop riding it all off as entitlement. we will receive zero aid because of my mom’s luck.</p>
<p>my parents refuse to take out loans. i don’t blame them for that. what intelligent person would take out PLUS loans with an 8% interest??? that’s insane. i have great grades and am applying to ivies. i’m also applying to schools that i know i am going to be miserable at but are cheaper (still NOT affordable). it’s very disappointing to be told that i am probably not going to be able to afford college. especially since i’ve dreamed of having a phD since age 12. i’m now looking at what i can do without a college degree. it’s sad that most are so disillusioned that they are willing to blame everything on entitlement. i have considered myself very lucky, in no way entitled, and am increasingly upset at the way the financial system is set up. i wish the rest of the population was as well because then maybe we could fix things.</p>
<p>I’m confused you are getting an extra 5 thousand dollars? Have you looked at the overall cost of a UC? I believe UCSD is 30k. Yeah I’m so dumb going to a school that only has plus grades making getting a higher GPA easier( b+=3.6). If you read on the premed forums, which you should probably do before you bring up my school, you want to attend an easier school, not a hard one. UCSD will be much harder than Rutgers. Please don’t say “well how do you know that?” I compared courses with students from both schools with syllabi. I intend to practice on the East Coast, so going to an East Coast school to get as many connections as possible would be a pretty great idea. Now does it make sense why I am attending Rutgers? Also I can throw on your imaginary 5-6 grad on UCs and it’s 35-6k, so thats about 7k more on top of the 300k debt already I am already anticipating for a chance at more connections in the place I wish to practice. Seems like a pretty well thought-out plan scienceguy looks like you did your research.</p>
<p>Hopefully you’ve jumped off that momwagon because last I read this post was about financial aid, not go out of my way to stick it to some kid.</p>
<p>“Nothing is free. Protesting with signs that seek free college degrees and free health care make you look like idiots, because colleges and hospitals dont operate on rainbows and sunshine. There is no magic money machine to tap for your meandering educational careers and slow paths to adulthood, and the 53 percent of taxpaying Americans or Canadians owe you neither a degree nor an annual physical.”</p>
<p>hahahahaha. the other 47% DO PAY TAXES. HOW STUPID. they end up paying more than the 53% in relation to their income.</p>
<p>“Only 4 percent of college graduates are out of work. If you are among that 4 percent, find a mirror and face the problem. Its not them. Its you.”</p>
<p>google percent of unemployed college graduates and this is easily refuted. another reason why the youth are so angry. now we not only have debt that was essentially forced on us because it’s either minimum wage labor or college, but the college degree doesn’t even mean we’re not going to end up working minimum wage labor or unemployed.</p>
<p>College is only expensive if you covet the expensive schools. ;)</p>
<p>You can get a college degree for a nominal cost,but my guess is you want BETTER then that,but why should you if youcan’t afford it? My guess is if all these OWS protestors were given a free ride to schleppy U or a CC, they b!tch and moan that they want a free PRIVATE education…</p>
<p>Extremely shortsighted if you feel those are your only options. Young people have many options, why do you feel you only have two? Had you said these are the only two I am willing to accept, then fine, but to say only two…</p>
<p>no. it does not end up that way for everyone. i will admit to making a generalization. it is increasingly becoming the case though. while i am only in the application process for undergrad right now, the majority of my friends have already graduated from college (and not with supposedly superfluous degrees in “anthropology”). many of them either had to drop out of CC because they could no longer afford even that or they have graduated in a ton of debt and no job prospects.</p>
<p>Yes, college can be expensive. It can be reasonable too. It is all in the eye of beholder. Base classes at the community college level are great alternative to OOS private or public universities. Also, the military has paid for many a fine education. Now the problem with signing on with Uncle Sam is you would actually have to work outside the classroom to earn your education. I can tell from the tone of his thread, that is not a great option.</p>
<p>also, the unemployment rate is arguably skewed. being employed does not mean employed at level of capacity. full time employment can mean anything from working at mcdonalds to being a CEO.</p>
<p>essentially every country in the WORLD is cheaper than the US school system.</p>
<p>Other countries control WHO gets to go to college. Is that really better?</p>
<p>i’m also applying to schools that i know i am going to be miserable at but are cheaper (still NOT affordable). it’s very disappointing to be told that i am probably not going to be able to afford college. especially since i’ve dreamed of having a phD since age 12.</p>
<p>???</p>
<p>What are your stats? Where are you applying? Can you get large merit scholarships for strong stats?</p>
<p>Nothing is going to stop you from getting a PhD if you don’t let it. My son is in a PhD program at a Top 20 school and he went to mid-level flagship for undergrad. One of his PhD classmates went to a regional state school that I’m not sure is even ranked. </p>
<p>Why do you assume that you’re going to be “miserable”??? That’s a very pessimistic attitude. My son will tell you that he LOVES his undergrad more than he loves his elite school.</p>
<p>but, even a family making over $100k does not have $200k laying around in the bank to pay for college.</p>
<p>Going to a private is a luxury…it’s not a given. With a strong income, if you don’t have $200k to spend or even $100k then you don’t go away to school; you don’t go to a private. You choose options that are affordable…and there are some.</p>
<p>My biggest gripe with the FAFSA and CSS is that they assume parents are actually going to contribute anything. It didn’t matter if my parents’ EFC was $1,000 or $20,000, they weren’t going to give a dime to me, even if I was top of my class and likely to do very well in college. </p>
<p>My mom did end up co-signing some loans for me because they knew if I got a job and moved out, they’d never see or hear from me again. But they would have torn me to pieces if I did not pay back every penny myself. And my mom gets VERY upset over the idea of me wanting to go to grad school, and my dad tells me I’m an “idiot.” A college education is apparently looked down upon in my family.</p>
<p>I know it’s hard to get around this. If the system did change to help out kids who were receiving no help from anyone, then parents who WERE willing to help would say they weren’t so their kids could get more aid. So it’s unfortunate that this is the system we are left with. I think there are a lot of families out there who fear that their children will surpass them in education and income. From what I see here, most parents would probably be proud, and can’t see it any other way. But in lower-middle class families, it is seen as a bad thing, as if the child is becoming someone you don’t know anymore. And then in poor families, it is again usually seen as a good thing worthy of pride. Funny how it works out, really.</p>
<p>And my mom gets VERY upset over the idea of me wanting to go to grad school, and my dad tells me I’m an "idiot.
That’s unfortunate, but how do they have any say over your choices after you no longer are accepting their money?</p>
<p>It goes with my story about how lower-middle class families tend to belittle education. Plus it would be nice to have their support, instead of seeing the disappointment in their faces when I go off to grad school. </p>
<p>Also, many students to go grad school immediately after undergrad when they are 21/22, and so they cannot yet file independent on the FAFSA unless they are married or have dependents, or some other extenuating circumstance. So parents can still hinder that goal, as well. For masters programs anyway, and those that are not fully funded.</p>
Easy. There should be no federal financial aid system in the first place. According to the U.S. Constitution, the federal government has no authority to be involved in education at all, so what gives them the right to tax citizens to send others to school (and more recently, pay off their loans after 20 years)?</p>
<p>Washington’s unconstitutional interference is the sole reason that the price of tuition is skyrocketing faster than anything else in the American economy. Allow me to explain: if a free market were allowed in college education, schools would compete like businesses with one another to offer students the highest quality education at the lowest price. Over time, as schools employed the latest technology, we’d see prices declining (as they do in other free-market industries, such as electronics and elective surgeries). Unfortunately, the federal government completely destroyed this ideal by offering grants and guaranteed loans to anybody who applies for them. Now, there is literally no incentive for schools to keep costs down. They can continue to raise tuition as long as the government continues providing financial aid, allowing them to continue to waste money on gymnasiums, performing arts centers, food courts, and health centers (instead of focusing on education quality and keeping costs low).</p>
<p>Of course, opponents of my position will imply that I am anti-education. Nothing could be further from the truth: I want everyone to be able to afford and attend university if they so desire. Unfortunately, this will never happen as long as the federal government continues to allow schools to artificially attract capital.</p>
<p>If you disagree, just imagine for a second: what would happen if starting tomorrow, there was no more federal financial aid? Correct - nobody would be able to afford it anymore. Schools would be forced into one of two choices: either lower tuition, or shut down. Universities would have to lower their tuition to a reasonable level, or else go out of business. Unfortunately, the current state of affairs does not allow for this to occur, so we’re just stuck with kids taking out massive loans for equally massively inflated tuitions.</p>
<p>*It goes with my story about how lower-middle class families tend to belittle education. Plus it would be nice to have their support, instead of seeing the disappointment in their faces when I go off to grad school. *</p>
<p>Perhaps before you graduate, you will learn about overgeneralization.
I could just as accurately say, lower middle class families tend to see education as their children’s ticket to a better life, and they do everything possible to procure that education for their children.
:)</p>
<p>I’ve already graduated, actually. And this was a topic covered in one of my psychology courses, and another parent on this site sent me a message about it as well, so it is common. It’s great if you want that for your kids. But I know few in my area who do. They see moving out of our pathetic little town as a bad thing. Just BELONGING to this forum makes you different. Many of the lower-middle class kids I went to school with also had no help from their parents with college decisions. You wouldn’t see their parents (or mine) on a site like this. They didn’t care. If their kids wanted “fancy” educations (even at cheaper state schools), they could do it on their own. I live in the countryside, and it is a common attitude here to just be “simple” and not stand out.</p>
<p>From FAFSA’s site: “At the beginning of the 2011-2012 school year, will you be working on a master’s or doctorate program (such as an MA, MBA, MD, JD, PhD, EdD, or graduate certificate, etc.)?” When I had graduated with my BA, I was told by my financial counselor that I could not file until the year I turned 24. My mistake. But I happened to turn 24 that following year, so I never really had to look into whether she was correct. Although I still stand by my point that parents can affect it if federal aid doesn’t cover the cost, and students without work histories or credit histories need co-signers for other private loans. Though I was pleasantly surprised at the amount I could use in Staffords this year - almost 10x what I got as an undergrad with a tiny EFC.</p>