FAFSA totally ridiculous?

Paying for College
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<p>@scienceguy, No you’re NOT in the same boat as a family with the 40k income. The family with the 40k income does not have the resources to send their children to college, no matter what decisions they make. Your family doesn’t have the resources to send their children to college because of decisions that they’ve made. Please tell me that you understand the distinction between making the choice not to have extra money and not having the ability to have extra money because you’re living close to the poverty line.</p>

<p>And, FWIW, I’m one of those students in that under 40k bracket and I still had to go to a college based on MERIT much more than on need-based aid so quit thinking that being poor is some kind of magic ticket to go to whatever school you want.</p>

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<p>Scienceguy1 -</p>

<p>Nationwide, the average age of students currently pursuing their first undergraduate degree is in the mid-twenties. Nationwide, more traditional-age students live at home and commute to local community colleges or nearby 4-year institutions, than live on campus. The notion that all college students are “college age”, and go away to school and live in a dorm or a frat house is fiction. Yes, fiction. If you live at home and commute, or if you take longer than 4 years to graduate because you need to work to make money to pay for school, you are having the “real” college experience. That is not fiction.</p>

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<p>Scienceguy, looking a little more into your posts, I see that you’ve inherited some of your parental attitude. You’re actually a California resident who decided to transfer to Rutgers because you want to have a good time in college and you prefer the east coast. You also say that the teachers at the local community college aren’t good, but you don’t mention going to a UC or CSU instead, at a fraction of the cost of OOS Rutgers. And California schools are a backup for you because your father might be able to help you with your loans once his petroleum business gets started.</p>

<p>Kids don’t choose their parents, but you chose this path and the debt. You don’t get to blame this on your parents.</p>

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<p>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^</p>

<p>Bravo - well said. This is a perfect example of the entitlement “me, me, me” mindset.</p>

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<p>Scienceguy quote:</p>

<p>Here’s my background, **my mother makes about 160k a year **living in an area that is costly to live, one bedroom apartments are extremely expensive, let’s just put it that way. My father is broke and jobless and has caused my mother about more than I would want to state publicly in debt. So she is forced to provide for 3 people now and granted we **live in a house that is not so great 3 bedroom **etc… Fine for living not so great looking lol. So FASFA will likely grant me absolutely nothing. My mother has no way of helping me nor my brother out. Yet someone that grew up in a 40k a year income house hold living about the same as I am, gets at least half of their expenses covered.</p>

<p>My response:</p>

<p>*???</p>

<p>Who says that they get at least half their costs covered? If that were the case a whole bunch more low income kids would be flooding the univs…yet they’re not. Fed aid isn’t much.</p>

<p>How is someone with a $40k income living the same life as someone with a highish EFC? They often have debt as well because their incomes don’t cover everything all the time as well. </p>

<p>You probably live in a nicer home than someone with a $40k income…maybe have better cars (or maybe more cars). </p>

<p>I don’t believe that some family living on $40k per year is living like you are.*</p>

<p>Scienceguy’s response:</p>

<p>*@mom2college
I think I lost some brain cells reading your response to my post. What do cars or homes dont have anything to do with me specifically? Yeah my mom had a decent car whatever.You clearly missed my point and it seems a lot of people are missing the same point. My point is that my parents have no money to spend on my college, we are in the same boat as a family with a 40k income. My financial aid will never mirror that… While one might argue “I live better” which is false but again that is an assumption you made. How my PARENTS live has nothing to do with how much financial aid I should be granted. Because of my parents choices I am to suffer? That really makes no sense. Hopefully you can see the flaw in that. Like someone else said “kids don’t choose their parents.” Apparently I got some not so smart parents since they decided to take on a hefty about of debt. *</p>

<p>My response:</p>

<p>Here’s a quarter…go find those lost brain cells because it appears that you sorely need them.</p>

<p>the fact is that your mom has a very high income. The fact that the adults in your household made choices that had horrendous negative consequences for their children is indeed sad, but your anger and blame should be directed solely at them - not the FA system. Poor people don’t have those choices. They can’t choose to misuse a $160k income. They never have that choice. </p>

<p>It sounds like your family owns a 3 bedroom home in an expensive area and your mom drives a nice car… that would not likely be possible for a family only earning $40k per year. </p>

<p>I also suspect that if your mom earns that much then she’s well-educated. You’ve also benefited from that - while many kids from famiies with low incomes do not have educated parents.</p>

<p>The FA system would immediately fail if all the high income kids could qualify for need-based aid simply because their parents had behaved irresponsibly. </p>

<p>So she is forced to provide for 3 people now … My mother has no way of helping me nor my brother out.</p>

<p>You say that your mom has large debts because of your dad. It sounds like your parents are divorced and she’s stuck with half of his debts. Well, perhaps bankruptcy or some kind of debt program is in order and then she’d be able to use some of her high income to pay for college. </p>

<p>Is your mom paying $55k per year towards (non mortgage/non car) debts? If so, that means she’s paying $4600 per month towards those debts. If not, then even without the debts, she still couldn’t pay for a private.</p>

<p>*Because of my parents choices I am to suffer? That really makes no sense. *</p>

<p>Of course that makes sense. It’s a parent’s responsibility to make responsible choices because when they don’t, their children will suffer. Gov’ts don’t raise kids, parents do. Do you think you should get food stamps, too? </p>

<p>Don’t you see that if the gov’t were to provide college aid to children from families with good incomes who just spent money irresponsibly then many more people would do this? </p>

<p>If you have the stats for top schools, then you have the stats to snag some large merit scholarships. What are you doing in that regard?</p>

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<p>I hate the FAFSA like everyone else, but it certainly is not the core of the problem. The problem with the college system, mirrors our country’s economic problems, which boils down to living beyond your means. I understand lay-offs, medical issues, etc, but what ever happened to rainy day funds, savings, savings and saving? I get the arguement that kids should not “pay for the mistakes of their parents,” but frankly this is backward thinking in my world. These parents should not have become parents without realizing what it actually takes to make that child into a fully functioning, financially responsible adult. And their behavior only teaches bad behavior to the new generation and the trend continues. </p>

<p>My parents drilled into me from a young age, that when you get money, you spend 30% (or less) on housing and utilities, 30% (or more) to savings, 25% on “other”…cars, food, entertainment, and 15% for taxes. They even made me split my allowance and any cash gifts into jars labeled as such. I did/do the same with my kids. It needs to be the normal and not the exception. Instant gratification was not a word that would ever be used in our family. It was all about planning, and still is today. It has allowed us to pay for college for all our children and some have been given grants and scholarships (merit based) and we, as a family redirect some of our “other” income to a scholarship program we are passionate about. So I do support and understand true need. This is about families that live beyond their means on middle class incomes.</p>

<p>But when someone says they live in a high dollar area to be close to family, I get that, but I spent many years away from family because we couldn’t afford to live in that area. Did it stink? Sure did. But we did what we had to do. When I was a young mother, in order to not pay day care expenses, I worked the 11pm to 7am shift while my husband worked a regular 9-5 (like 5 is ever the end of the day). It saved us 10s of thousands of dollars and yet, we felt we were always “not good parents” for not providing that $13,000 a year “child development education.” But, we stayed true to our goals. Life has trade offs and if choices made 8 years ago keep your parents from contributing to college, then so be it, but they are choices. The hardest word to say as a parent is “no.” I spent 18 years telling my daughter “no” to most barbies at target, most high end blue jeans, etc, but it allowed me to say yes to the college of her choice.</p>

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<p>I’m transferring because my cc’s biology teachers are very bad and the department is very underfunded. I also see college as a good time in life, I personally hate california and love the east coast. I want to go to med school in New York not in Cali. Yes it might be more expensive but you only have one life. Plus my parents are considering paying my student loan debt when my dads petro company kicks in gear. Cali is just a financial back up invade my parents cannot help me out. The only real advantage is I get more of a college life and a better education in my opinion.</p>

<p>And, you’re transferring to Rutgers with a 3.3 GPA as a pre-med student from Calif and your parents can’t help pay???</p>

<p>Do you really think that the gov’t would help an OOS student with a $40k income family pay for Rutgers after filling out FAFSA?</p>

<p>You claim that your parents are going to co-sign these big loans and help you pay later, but if they’re in such huge debt, then how could they qualify for both years or even one year?
and what about the med school debts? And what if your dad’s company never makes a lot of money?</p>

<p>Everyone…Science guy says he lost some brain cells…please help him find them.</p>

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<p>And when that company goes bust, like 90% of new companies do, YOU will be the one responsible for paying the loans back. So then you will be a doctor (maybe) making about $200,000 a year (if you are super lucky) paying back $130,000 in UG loans and $150,000 in medical school loans and you will be so strapped with debt that your kid, in 30 years, will be here saying that life is crap because of the poor financial decisions of his parents.</p>

<p>When will anyone be responsible enough to stop the wheel of debt?</p>

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<p>How much we are willing to pay for college is a personal decision - </p>

<p>based out much it will cost, how much we can pay, how much we are willing to pay and how deep do you want to dig to make it possible.</p>

<p>Each family has to weigh different things to make that decision - however the United States is not a socialist country - like Germany, Finland, etc. where you need only to qualify and a lot of the costs are borne by the Government. Here it’s every man for himself - are you a have or have not?</p>

<p>Is it important enough for you to mortgage your future to go to your dream school - or are you going to be sensible and go to the best school that you can afford?</p>

<p>In America - it’s not about fairness.</p>

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<p>Not neccesary to pile it on but</p>

<p>“Because of my parents choices I am to suffer? That really makes no sense”</p>

<p>I don’t see any way around this. All children benefit or suffer from their parents choices. Choices of when to have kids and who with, where they live, what values they teach, and on and on. Some kids manage to do well or poorly regardless.</p>

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<p>Just wanted to add…divorce does not have to crush your financial goals either. I was divorced and am now remarried, but I married someone the first time and the second that have similar financial goals as I do.</p>

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<p>that is the truth, on so many different topics than just college costs!</p>

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<p>A variation: “Because of your parents poor choices, the American taxpayer is to suffer by paying for your education? That really makes no sense.”</p>

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<p>What do know you another ****ing contest on CC… I’m so surprised that you all went out of the way to pull my info assuming you know everything about the situation. Bravo, but I’m sorry your assumptions are wrong. I’m not going to defend myself because I’m not the point of this post financial aid is. Every system having anything to do with education is messed up. If you can’t see that you must be blind. Looks you’ll need my brain cells to figure it.</p>

<p>Another ill-informed soccer mom bandwagon. /sigh.</p>

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<p>Scienceguy1, tell daddy to “man-up” and pay for some of your college. Did he instill your sense of entitlement in you?</p>

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<p>I would love for him to man up he owes me money!</p>

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<p>Scienceguy…you are right. Everything about the system is messed up. But why drink the kool-aid? I know it’s hard. As a parent, I purchased a home in area that was notorious for its excellent school system. Because of that, it draws affluent people who love to wear their wealth on their fingers, wrists and toes. But we did not make that decision to keep with people like that, we made the decision to give our kids the best education we could afford, because paying for private schooling for a blended family of many, many children, it was not possible. But this makes saying no to your children even harder when they are surrounded by all the “haves” but we choose to “have not”. But those years of sacrifice, allowed our children to “have” the college of their choice (some private, some public), while their BMW driving peers were choosing their “have nots.” But being a great parent is teaching that decisions are multi-faceted and not “me” focused.</p>

<p>And the soccer mom reference…Yeah, I’m a soccer mom…and darn proud of it. It gives me great pleasure to yell for my kid on Saturday morning. A great stress reliever to my daily life as the managing partner of multi million dollar family business, built off of the hard work our family, not given to us for free, and we continue to grow from our own reinvestments, not government money or grants.</p>

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<p>borrowed from fogfog’s post over in the parents forum…VERY fitting for this discussion</p>

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<p>Scienceguy1:</p>

<p>Read the above post. Then read it again. Think about it. </p>

<p>You’ve got a lot of growing up to do, hopefully before it is too late. </p>

<p>I’ll share something I’ve learned. When I have an opinion and everyone else around me is telling me I’m wrong I at least take a step back and consider the possibly. Which statisically is more likely. You are right and the world is wrong? Or vice versa. </p>

<p>You need to drop the entitlement and work for what you want. Life is not fair. Get a helmet.</p>

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<p>“Yeah, I’m a soccer mom…and darn proud of it. It gives me great pleasure to yell for my kid on Saturday morning.”</p>

<p>Awww…I miss that! Sort of…now I have to watch on you tube.</p>