Fair to Make Student Take Out Loans?

<p>You betcha it's fair - if it's a small loan. My son has to pay about $2,000 a year of his tuition. I could pay it for him - but I won't. ;)</p>

<p>I teach at a community college and see many students who went off to a school that someone else thought was right for them. Thye never beleived it and take no time proving to their parents that it was a wrong choice by fluunking out. They are then burdened with a terrrible GPA on their college record. From your statments that your son hates the cheaper school, doesn't care much what you think and is spoiled this seems entirley possible if you force him to go to the school.</p>

<p>On the other hand you are not obligated to provide him with college. It is a wonderful opportunity that we all hope to give to our children in some way. That doesn't mean footing the entire cost. We have told our children that we expect them to come up with $2k each year towards their tuition plus all of their spending money. We have also told them that our budget is $20k/yr/child. With 3 kids we're thrilled to be able to give them so much support and they seem to see it the same way. We never discussed the specific details of what would happen if costs were over that. Right now our d is accepted with aid at Grinnell, Denison and Kenyon. The money at Grinnell and Deniso is close enough to $20k to call it even but Kenyon is a $10 k gap. Our d's immediate assumption was that she would have loans to make the difference if she choses Kenyon. She does want to go to grad school and expects to pick up debt there so she understands the consequences of this decision.</p>

<p>I think one of the most important things we can do for our children at this juncture in their lives is allow them to be adults. We can set the guidelines but then they need to make the decisions. If they choose the school, with whatever financial consequences that entails, they are much more likely to succeed.</p>

<p>We told our S that we would pick up the cost of one of our flagship publics (Purdue) and he would be expected to pick up the max student loan each year. That ends up being about $16k. Anything above that he needs to make up with loans, work study etc. He has several alternatives in the ballpark where he would be even or a little more debt and a couple that would leave him with a lot more debt. The decision is his.</p>

<p>$12K-$15K in loans is, imnsvho, a reasonable burden for a student to take on. It's his or her education; they should have some investment in it.</p>

<p>Otoh, the selection process as described by the OP gives me the hives, as does the attitude of the OP's son. I'd be worrying about more significant questions than loan amount.</p>

<p>Since the OP's information is pretty one sided - and then considers his kiddo to be a spoiled brat - leaves alot out of the picture here. I don't have any issue with the student taking on some of the responsibility at all - but I also don't think the decision should be the parents completely - the student's input needs to highly considered here. Why is this kiddo considered a spoiled brat?? Is it because he wants to go to a certain school?? I have no way of knowing that - there must be other things going on in this situation.</p>

<p>We told both of our kids at the gitgo onset of the college process what the limits where - and what we could NOT do. They both had to stay within the guidelines for a school to be considered - no matter where it was. We would not consider agreeing to something that was over the top - so to speak - but they knew that up front. We never put the limit as state school or no school - or elite or state school - we allowed them to consider all the options - within the guidelines. Knowing my own kiddos pretty well - I do know that they would not have done well at a place that they did not like - I really do believe that atmosphere does improve ones ability to perform. </p>

<p>So with what we know of this situation - I would still consider the option for the OP's son to attend the school he does like - vs the ones he does not like - but with the understanding that he has to contribute in some way - work/loan, whatever it takes - for him to go there - that is NOT unreasonable.</p>

<p>Maybe I'm a lucky one, but for years my wife and I have told our son we want to chip in toward his college. Never have we indicated we'd pay it all, or that any part of it was our obligation. Rather, it is money we want to provide to help him. We have never given a percentage(5%? 95%?), or a dollar amount, only that we want to help him with his costs.<br>
Nearing 18(the age a child thinks he is an adult) he realizes how much we want to chip in is partly affected by his behavior. We have a maximum figure in mind, but does he pitch-in a bare minimum or a maximum of effort? Example- is he willing to try harder in high school? Try harder at his sports? Respect house rules? Will he help work at the family business? If the answer is "yes" to those, then we are willing to accept our maximum financial strain to help him. If not, well then... Yes, my Son, there are rewards and consequences to one's actions in the adult world. And you have argued, begged and pleaded to be treated like an adult.
Of course we will permit and encourage our S to attend anywhere he desires, but when we decide to volunteer X dollars- if that doesn't cover it, he can pay the difference.</p>

<p>Agree with Wish...April, but I guess in more strong terms.</p>

<p>This is a discussion that needs to happen with the kids BEFORE they apply to colleges and, to some extent, BEFORE they even start looking. Talk about the maximum that you can afford, talk about what you pay for and what you don't (does $20k/year include books, or do you pay for them separately? Clothes? Car insurance? Spending money?). Talk honestly. If you can only pay $15k/year, don't be wishy-washy and say you'll figure it out. Say that you can only afford $15k/year and then guide your kid through the process. </p>

<p>Will you pay for grad school? A student could potentially take out heavier loans if grad school is not in the cards or is otherwise being paid for (ex. engineers, whose companies routinely reimburse for it); OTOH, if the kid is thinking about law or med school, which offer virtually no financial aid, then student debt from undergrad should be kept to a minimum. Go through the numbers: law/med are about $25k-$35k/year in tuition alone; living expenses drive the annual cost above $50k/year. </p>

<p>Safety schools have to meet a few requirements: it has to be a school that the kid would actually be moderately happy at, the student has to have a really, really good chance of getting in, and it has to be a financial safety - somehow affordable. IMNSVHO, kids should apply to at least two schools which meet that criteria (or one if it has rolling admissions). I'm dead serious - it should meet financial, happiness, and admissions thresholds to be a safety. If you can't pay for it, or if the kid hates it, it ain't a safety, no matter how sure the admissions. </p>

<p>I've advocated this more times than I can count, but I really think it's important and something that only parents can communicate: talk to your kids about the realities of adult life and finances!! I've done my little spiel here (most kids make $25k/year out of college, then subtract taxes, rent, utilities, cell, groceries, car insurance, car payments or repairs, gas, health insurance co-pays or the like, business attire, clothes, sundries, and get a final number of how much money is left over at the end of the month), and there is NO reason why parents should not sit down with their kids and go through it. "Here's what you'll make, here's what stuff will cost you, and here is what you will have left." While it's probably about as much fun as the sex talk, it's just as important and the school system is not going to pick up the ball for parents who want to avoid it. </p>

<p>Most high school (and college, and grad school) students do not know what it will take to pay back loans until they are due. Please, please go through this calculation with them, preferably right after the above one!! Here is the simple way to do it: 10-year loan, assume 5% interest rate (very very low), and every dollar taken out will cost the student about $1.60 to pay back. Stretch payments over 20 years, and every dollar will cost about $2.30 to pay back (so you actually don't cut your payments in half). </p>

<p>Talk about lifestyle - when do they want to marry (if they do)? Buy a house? Have kids? If she wants kids by 26, does she still want to be paying off student loans until her kids are in elementary school? Even a 10-year loan ensures that the student will be paying it off into his 30s. As parent-types, y'all know that these types of debt can really change the way you lead part of your adult life - so talk to the kids about it. </p>

<p>Rant over... maybe. :)</p>

<p>^^ good rant tho - makes alot of sense!!!</p>

<p>Wait a sec...</p>

<p>It's all fine & well to declare a finite amount that we as parents will contribute per year towards college, but I think we're much better off giving a dollar amount 'vicinity', being flexible with a little wiggle room.</p>

<p>Reasons being? If we give a hardline '$15K per year', that might hold back the kid from applying to some of the high-octane privates, and maybe missing out on obtaining some nice merit aid that might come close to reaching that $15K figure but doesn't quite get there. And the kid REALLY wants to go there. In that instance, what do you do? Hold to your guns on principle when the difference between State U. and Eastern Wahoo L.A.C. is only a couple grand a year? No way, especially if you have a daughter..ha!</p>

<p>My D will be hearing from her final school today (Duke) but I think <crossing fingers=""> she's already made her mind up to attend Next State U. with a fair scholarship, which will end up costing the 2nd-cheapest of the 6 to which she applied.</crossing></p>

<p>I'm a student, trying to decide if heavy debt is worth the school I really want. My parents will pay for a state school, but in order to attend George Washington U, I'd need to take out MAJOR loans... like, $15K every year! Is that too much debt?</p>

<p>Figure out how much a month it's going to translate to for how many years. If you want to go to grad school add that in to the mix. I know a very successful man, Harvard MBA, who had to wait years to buy a home because of his college debt.</p>

<p>Guess it's really not worth it then. I don't think I'll have a high powered job to pay all that back before I'm... maybe about 50 years old! I suppose if I didn't mind living in a cave someplace and never having a family.</p>

<p>Going into the admissions process we said we would pay for all nonacademic costs(room, board, med fees, activity fees) while he would pick up tuition, academic fees, books, and spending $'s. He has college savings accounts totalling about $76,000 so he had chioces. Publics where he could easily pay his share with bucks to spare, privates with merit scholarships with the possiblity of $'s left over or privates offering no merit aid with loans making up the difference. He rejected the last immediately and did a lot of research for colleges offering merit aid.</p>

<p>He ended up attending Rensselaer with $25k in merit scholarships(3 separate ones) and will end up spending about $6k of his own money. We are paying about $9k for our share.</p>

<p>Next year he is living off campus and they figure that it will be costing them about $4-$5k less than on campus. We told our son that we will continue to pay the $9k per year with the $4-$5k savings going toward tuition.</p>

<p>What happens if you don't pay a loan back?</p>

<p>that isn't an option bluealien
check on updates of bankruptcy laws</p>

<p>Then that's a reason to not have a loan.</p>

<p>I disagree- I think loans of $15,000 are reasonable upon college graduation. Many loans have had interest paid during college ( much cheaper than having interest deferred)- additionally some fields/companies may give you money toward loans upon hiring & or money for gradute school.
My daughter will have approx $12,000 of loans upon graduation.
About $5,000 is already covered- because she took a year off to volunteer and earned an education voucher that may be applied to loands. She is also planning on doing an additional year of service after grdaution, which would net her an additional $5,000 as well as defer her loan repayment while she is volunteering.
That leaves roughly $2,000 of loans.
As she is currently working a job which doesn't pay a lot but if she worked it full time she would earn over $22,000- I don't think $2,000 of loans are going to be a problem, considering without the loan she would not have been able to attend college.
With a diploma she will probably be able to start earning $25K - $30K- enough to pay off loans- her computer loan was that much . ;) ( $2,000 not $30,000 !)</p>

<p>I'm not exactly sure how much i will have to pay off in loans.. probably about 12k.. and i don't see that being too much of a problem to pay off. I also have my car loan to pay off.</p>

<p>"'m a student, trying to decide if heavy debt is worth the school I really want. My parents will pay for a state school, but in order to attend George Washington U, I'd need to take out MAJOR loans... like, $15K every year! Is that too much debt?"</p>

<p>IMO yes. $15k-$20 k in loans to pay for your entire undergrad cost would be reasonable, but $60 k in loans is not.</p>

<p>There are plenty of colleges that are of GWU quality and even higher that are cheaper. This includes excellent state universities such as University fo Wisconsin. It also includes excellent private colleges. There also are many good colleges that offer more merit aid than does GWU.'</p>

<p>Incidentally, I got my graduate degrees from GWU. I do like the university. I just don't think that going there is worth the kind of debt that you're considering.</p>

<p>Thanks, Northstarmom. Yeah, my family's financial plan for college got majorly side-tracked when my father lost his job a couple years ago (still not finding work, believe it or not). So my mom has to both support the family and pay for college. It seems I'm not strong enough student to get merit aid at "good" universities. (GPA 4.0 weighted, SAT 1300). I think I'll do us all a favor and stay instate. I appreciate your opinion that GW isn't worth major debt - I don't know what's worth it and what's not!</p>