<p>i would definitely hurt someone if i were kicked out of college.</p>
<p>doesnt matter if youre a geek or a brute, you WILL feel violent emotions when something like that happens.</p>
<p>this isnt a forget and move on situation. this is life...youre screwed if you can never get into a respectable university ever again.</p>
<p>I don't think that you would go through with your violent feelings. If you think that that will stop you forever, you need a reality check. Seriously.</p>
<p>Violent emotions are different from killing someone. Haha. Not going to Yale will ruin your life? How about getting charged with assault, battery, or murder ("kill" has come up, almost unbelievably, in this conversation). Please, relax. The offender is not even in high school anymore.</p>
<p>yea but this case is so dumb. what does he gain from reporting the cheater? making yale a better place as a whole? hardly...he might as well report all the drug addicts while he's at it.</p>
<p>There is a television show, I cannot remember the name, in which they stage assaults on old people just to see who comes to their aid and who walks by, figuring it's not their problem.</p>
<p>zzzboy and Phead128, if you are serious in the positions you have advocated, you are definitely the ones who let the old lady get pummeled.</p>
<p>That's not the point. The reputation of the school is incredibly important for college decisions. If the school has a history of misrepresenting candidates, then colleges will be far less likely to admit students from there (exceptions: large public schools, probably). It's not a matter of what HE gains. Why is everyone so self-centered? The point is that someone broke the rules, and now the OP has evidence. Reporting it is the ethically correct thing to do. It's not dumb. In fact, the evidence is so damning that it would make no sense not to report it.</p>
<p>Your argument doesn't hold up at all. First, you say it's dangerous. When that is shown to be wrong, you then present a total non-case against it because it's "dumb." Please.</p>
<p>zzzboy... i kind of agree with you. Guys, i totally understand what the Yale guy did was wrong... but think about.. does the punishment fit the crime. Getting kicked out of YALE?!?! That is way too harsh. I look at it this way... the fact that he went to Yale means there were a 1000 other things that were positive about him. He made one bad mistake but he really should not be kicked out of Yale for that.</p>
<p>Put yourself in his position... ( I know most of you will say that i would never fake recs... but lets say you were caught in the moment and your teachers suck so you ended up faking it)...and then someone finds out and you get get kicked out of your dream college.</p>
<p>I am not in any way supporting what the Yale guy did but i just cannot help but feel bad for him if he did get kicked out. And like zzzboy said, the OP is not really going to gain anything... and as for integrity... there are hundreds if not thousands i would guess that fake recs each year... nothing happens to them...It would be foolish to say to kick all those kids out of their college. If we were all penalized for the stupid little things we did, half of us would be in deep trouble.</p>
<p>Lastly and most importantly, i doubt those recs even mattered that much in the admissions decision.</p>
<p>But it's not about the Yale guy or about the OP. There are people (yes, I'm sure many kids don't think teachers are people, but they worked to get their positions just like you students will be working to get to yours eventually) and their identities were essentially stolen if Yale Guy is telling the truth. It's not about Yale Guy and his future or the OP and his future. Teachers are not pawns upon whom student can commit fraud and have others just shrug and say, "ah... what's the big deal anyway?"</p>
<p>Kids can be so callous. It's stunning at times.</p>
<p>collegebound2009, first find out if he was joking with you. You could have someone a year younger ask the teachers if they would write recs like they did for this kid, since he got into Yale with them.</p>
<p>Shad Faraz, your argument is well-written but has a serious and fatal flaw. It is not for OP to decide what the punishment should be. He has no control or say in that decision. The decision is Yale's to make. If everything you say is true - he would have gotten in anyway; it's not that big a deal; everyone else does it (the lamest of the lame excuses that haven't worked since kindergarten); and the recs didn't matter anyway - then Yale has no business in kicking him out! Especially since - as the first post I made on the thread points out - Yale has a chronic problem with academic cheating. </p>
<p>The reason to speak up is because what he did was wrong and there are consequences. If the student next to you cheats off you, is that okay with you since you're going to get a good grade anyway? If so, I don't like you.</p>
<p>I would call Yale, rather than e-mailing. I think they'd be much more likely to take you seriously if you were having an actual conversation.</p>
<p>^ Oh no! He got kicked out! You mean, you actually have to FOLLOW THE RULES? Oh wait, no you don't! Because reporting people would be "mean." RIGHT.</p>
<p>Let's address these one-by-one:</p>
<p>1) "Getting kicked out of YALE?!?! That is way too harsh."</p>
<p>Let Yale decide that, yes? The OP wouldn't advocate a particular punishment. Are you trying to say that Yale doesn't know what a fair punishment is for someone who lied his way into their own school?</p>
<p>2) "I look at it this way... the fact that he went to Yale means there were a 1000 other things that were positive about him. He made one bad mistake but he really should not be kicked out of Yale for that."</p>
<p>Let Yale decide what should happen to him. If Yale wants to look at the 1000 other good things, they can! But he did break a contract he made with the school by forging recs. Let the school determine whether the positive aspects overshadow his huge character inadequacies.</p>
<p>3) "Put him in your position..."</p>
<p>No. Arguments to emotion are completely invalid.</p>
<p>4) "but lets say you were caught in the moment and your teachers suck so you ended up faking it"</p>
<p>You're right, I will say that I would never do that. And if there was a problem with the teachers, he should have brought it up with the GC. And if the GC was a dope, too bad. I'm sorry, it's really harsh, but he shouldn't have signed the contract if he didn't want to follow it. You cannot justify the lie.</p>
<p>5) "and then someone finds out and you get get kicked out of your dream college."</p>
<p>Yes, get kicked out of the college BY THE COLLEGE. Oh no! They don't want liars on their campus? What a surprise!</p>
<p>6) "I am not in any way supporting what the Yale guy did but i just cannot help but feel bad for him if he did get kicked out."</p>
<p>That in no way means that he shouldn't be kicked out, by the way.</p>
<p>7) "And like zzzboy said, the OP is not really going to gain anything..."</p>
<p>So? Are you really that incredibly selfish and arrogant as to believe that anything that doesn't benefit you is not worth doing? That's a disgusting notion, and I really hope you can clarify that statement.</p>
<p>8) "and as for integrity... there are hundreds if not thousands i would guess that fake recs each year... nothing happens to them..."</p>
<p>Does this justify the kid's own lie? No. Should he not be punished just to be "fair" to all the other cheaters? No. This kid got caught and broke the rules. If I remember correctly, breaking the rules isn't affected at all by how many people break them.</p>
<p>9) "It would be foolish to say to kick all those kids out of their college."</p>
<p>Then colleges would recognize that that would be foolish, and act accordingly. It's not up to you. It's up to the schools.</p>
<p>10) "Lastly and most importantly, i doubt those recs even mattered that much in the decision."</p>
<p>No one's arguing that. No one's saying that he got in because of the recs. The issue isn't that they misrepresented him. The issue is that he cheated. He broke the rules he EXPLICITLY agreed to follow in the first place. That's the problem here.</p>
<p>Look, OP, there's no question. Report him to the school. I hope they respond. If they don't within a reasonable amount of time, contact Yale anonymously and prompt them to investigate. If they think it's worth it, they will.</p>
<p>I cannot believe the assumptions some posters are making. Where did anyone say that he would be kicked out? NOWHERE. Guess who DOESN'T make that decision? The OP. Guess who does? Yale. You don't know what they'll decide, so you can't claim that he'll get kicked out and then use that as a reason not to report it. It doesn't work that way. If Yale doesn't care, he'll attend. If Yale does care, they will deal with it as necessary.</p>
<p>woah laxtaxi.. what is this about not liking me :/ ... i am just trying to be a bit more forgiving than most CC posters. I obviously know what he did was wrong but everyone makes mistakes. He should not get screwed over for the next four years because of that one lapse of judgement.</p>
<p>As for Yale not kicking him out. I am a feeling he will either get kicked out or have a strong punishment put upon him for four years. That is probably because Yale does not know of all the people who fake recs or some other part of their app. So when they figure out about this guy, they will think it is an isolated case and probably kick him out. </p>
<p>I feel like i am not able to convince anyone. I guess i am just looking at it differently. Laxtaxi, who ever you are, i love you :)... what is all the 'i don't like you' about..</p>
<p>
[quote]
As for Yale not kicking him out. I am a feeling he will either get kicked out or have a strong punishment put upon him for four years. That is probably because Yale does not know of all the people who fake recs or some other part of their app. So when they figure out about this guy, they will think it is an isolated case and probably kick him out.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>How exactly do you know that thousands of students write their own teacher recommendations each year?</p>
<p>go ahead and report it. just make sure you do it anonymously, because unlike what naive baelor thinks, the dude WILL get revenge if he finds out its you.</p>
<p>doesnt even have to be violence...could be vandalism, public embarrassment, etc etc. and dont think he's gonna get caught. this isnt a perfect world.</p>
<p>i just said its dumb because i personally dont believe its helping anyone by reporting him. if it were in the middle of admissions season, then sure, definitely do it since it would give another kid a shot at yale. but now its just whatever...might as well report all of the drug dealers and music downloaders while youre at it, considering what they are doing is "ethically" wrong.</p>
<p>"I obviously know what he did was wrong but everyone makes mistakes."</p>
<p>Why would someone stop making them if there are never any consequences? Everyone makes mistakes. Let's hope no one makes them more than once. Consequences are a very effective way to do that.</p>
<p>"He should not get screwed over for the next four years because of that one lapse of judgement."</p>
<p>First, leave that up to Yale. Again, the OP isn't deciding the punishment. What Yale thinks is ultimately what is important. If Yale would kick him out, how can you honestly say that he belongs there?</p>
<p>Second, it was NOT a lapse in judgment. Going to a dry party and then accepting a beer from a guest might count. But here, we're talking about someone who signed a contract, and then over a long period of time knew he was breaking the contract and spent a long time perfecting his ability to do so, and maximizing the gain he got from blatantly violating the rules. It isn't a lapse in judgment, sorry.</p>
<p>"I am a feeling he will either get kicked out or have a strong punishment put upon him for four years."</p>
<p>Okay. That's nice. Again, your opinion. Yale's is the only one that matters.</p>
<p>"I feel like i am not able to convince anyone. I guess i am just looking at it differently."</p>
<p>It's surprising, but I don't say this very often: Your way of looking at it is just flat-out wrong.</p>
<p>Shad, the cheater did not ask for your forgiveness, so why are you giving it to him? He did not make a "mistake," he wrote several recommendations about himself that were probably glowing and most certainly took him a fair amount of time. This is not an "oops," incident, it was bald-faced, calculated, lying and forgery, which apparently is not a big deal to you. You ought to examine your own morals, my friend.</p>
<p>Isn't this bigger than risking loss of admission? Isn't forgery against the LAW? Getting his application rescinded isn't the worst that can happen. Besides, if he forged them, he's an idiot to tell others; he cannot expect that no one will not turn him in.</p>
<p>"go ahead and report it. just make sure you do it anonymously, because unlike what naive baelor thinks, the dude WILL get revenge if he finds out its you."</p>
<p>I always advocated anonymity, so I don't know what that argument is. You said that the OP will get hurt physically. I said that he won't, because then the guy gets jailed IF he manages to find out it's the OP in the first place. I would hardly call my outlook na</p>
<p>Shad Faraz, I reread what I said and I apologize profusely. I did not mean I do not like you. I meant I do not like it. I am very sorry for making that sound personal! My bad!</p>
<p>Substantively, I'm with Baelor. Except about the anonymity part. I just took a break and picked up my HS age D at work. I recited this dilemma as OP first posed it. I asked her what she thought OP should do. First she was shocked that anyone would think that forging recommendations is ok and forgiveable as a minor mistake. Second, she was surprised that the OP hadn't told the Yale-cheater that he was an idiot when he first confessed to OP. Third, she said he should go back to the Yale-cheater and confront him. </p>
<p>zzzboy, she's 5'2" with bigger balls than you, apparently. LOL.</p>
<p>And, for full disclosure, I asked my spouse whose response was "it's none of OP's business, don't get involved." Clearly, D gets her moral compass from me.</p>