fake teacher recs - what should i do?

Applying to College
61

<p>dude youre making yourself sound like you are 10 years old or something. have you NEVER heard of a guy getting beaten up? have you NEVER heard of someones car getting keyed? car spray painted? house spray painted?</p>

<p>who said that the cheater has to do all of these deeds himself? if i got beaten up by a group of random guys, what the hell am i supposed to do? "officer, i was beaten up by a group of guys that ive never seen before, and i cant really give much description. can you please find them?"</p>

<p>seriously, its ****ing me off how naive you are acting. </p>

<p>and you KNOW that yale is going to rescind him. stop saying "let yale decide." we know what the consequences are going to be, meaning that the OP is ultimately the one who decides.</p>

62

<p>Here's the thing that debunks basically any argument made against reporting.</p>

<p>Yale uses the Common Application, and at the end of the Common App is a statement that the applicant must agree to:</p>

<p>
[quote]
I certify that all information submitted in the admission process -- including the application, the personal essay, any supplements, and any supporting other materials -- is my own work, factually true, and honestly presented. I understand that I may be subject to a range of possible disciplinary actions, including admission revocation or expulsion, should the information I’ve certified be false. In addition, I authorize the release of my admission decision to my secondary school and, if admitted, to my local media.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The applicant agreed that he can have his admission revoked if anything in his application isn't "honestly presented," so there isn't any wiggle room here. The applicant knew what he was doing was wrong, that it could ruin his future, and he did it anyway. Getting his admission revoked shouldn't really come as much of a surprise.</p>

63

<p>Yup. Zzzboy is definitely the one who walks by while the young toughs beat up the old lady. Not MY mom, why should I care?</p>

64

<p>Steelerfan513 FTW!!! You are a star!</p>

65

<p>what the hell are you talking about. middle-aged women dont make any sense. if youre questioning my compassion, i even said earlier that i would report the person IF it were admissions season, which it is most certainly not anymore.</p>

66

<p>"dude youre making yourself sound like you are 10 years old or something. have you NEVER heard of a guy getting beaten up? have you NEVER heard of someones car getting keyed? car spray painted? house spray painted?"</p>

<p>House spray-painted? Man, where on earth do you live? I cannot believe that you are acting as if everyone lives in an area where they have to be frightened for their lives and property.</p>

<p>The OP is planning to do this ANONYMOUSLY. The guy literally has no proof at all that the OP turned him in, and probably wouldn't find out. The school could even present it as they themselves caught the blatant error. Please, get over yourself.</p>

<p>Guess how many problems there have been with houses getting painted, cars getting keyed in my CITY? NONE. This has never happened to anyone I know, whether they be in decrepit public schools or pristine private ones. Get over yourself and realize that not everyone lives in a hotbed of vandalism. </p>

<p>"who said that the cheater has to do all of these deeds himself? if i got beaten up by a group of random guys, what the hell am i supposed to do? "officer, i was beaten up by a group of guys that ive never seen before, and i cant really give much description. can you please find them?""</p>

<p>Again, you are operating under the erroneous assumption that this guy would even find out the OP turned him in.</p>

<p>"seriously, its ****ing me off how naive you are acting."</p>

<p>Na</p>

67

<p>"what the hell are you talking about. middle-aged women dont make any sense. if youre questioning my compassion, i even said earlier that i would report the person IF it were admissions season, which it is most certainly not anymore."</p>

<p>Really? An entire demographic doesn't make sense? That lends so much credibility to the rest of your argument, it's amazing.</p>

<p>Whether something is wrong doesn't depend on the season.</p>

68

<p>laxtaxi.. its all good .. don't worry about it...</p>

<p>Baelor... what can i say... you keep pointing out that i keep expressing my opinions... is that not what CC is for.. a place where everyone can express their OWN opinion-whether right or wrong- without being called immoral.... whoever said i should check my morals... if you knew me.. you would not feel that way.</p>

<p>Anyway, that is my OPINION on the issue and by no means what is right. Heck, i am almost always willing to admit i may be wrong but am not quite sure if that applies here. I know it is up to Yale and not up to me. Again, my opinion.</p>

69

<p>"Baelor... what can i say... you keep pointing out that i keep expressing my opinions... is that not what CC is for.. a place where everyone can express their OWN opinion-whether right or wrong- without being called immoral.... whoever said i should check my morals... if you knew me.. you would not feel that way."</p>

<p>Oh, I know. And that is exactly what CC is for. I didn't call you immoral, IIRC. That was someone else.</p>

<p>However, I don't think that you're a bad person. But I do think that your opinion, in this case, is wrong. That happens to be my opinion.</p>

70

<p>"Again, you are operating under the erroneous assumption that this guy would even find out the OP turned him in."</p>

<p>im not operating under any assumption. i even said on page 4 that the OP should do it anonymously. what i was arguing was the fact that you think that even if the dude finds out the OP did it, he would simply be "jailed." no, thats wrong.</p>

<p>and you also bring in facts about your neighborhood and how there is no vandalism. WHO CARES. how does that affect the cheater's potential to vandalize? and more, you make the assumption that i live in a ghetto neighborhood. again, no. the average house value where i live is one million, yet im quite sure that if someone were to screw someone else over, something would go down.</p>

<p>im not arguing whether what the cheater did is ETHICALLY wrong. obviously it is. what i AM arguing is whether it even matters anymore. just as i would never turn in a drug addict, i wouldnt turn this guy in. it doesnt help anyone at this point, but i guess some people need to "feel" good by doing whats morally correct all the time.</p>

71

<p>zzzboy, if a murderer committed an act that was ethnically wrong (killing someone obviously), you wouldn't turn him/her in just because the murder was already gone and done and it doesn't matter anymore? I apologize in my exaggeration but the mindset, the notion of "letting things go" only provokes more and more of the same cheating, manipulation, etc. </p>

<p>To the OP: Do what's right and I think you know what given the overwhelming consensus of the board.</p>

72

<p>"im not operating under any assumption. i even said on page 4 that the OP should do it anonymously. what i was arguing was the fact that you think that even if the dude finds out the OP did it, he would simply be "jailed." no, thats wrong."</p>

<p>What? I never said that the guy would be jailed for no reason. I'm not stupid, I promise. That was in direct response to people who said that the Yale admit would physically harm him, or, God forbid, KILL him. </p>

<p>"and you also bring in facts about your neighborhood and how there is no vandalism. WHO CARES. how does that affect the cheater's potential to vandalize?"</p>

<p>It doesn't affect it at all. However, if vandalism is extremely uncommon, it makes sense that the OP would not have something of his vandalized, if he were to be identified at all. People get ****ed all the time. That doesn't mean that vandalism occurs. You can't even suggest that this guy WILL vandalize the OP. Only the OP can really know.</p>

<p>"and more, you make the assumption that i live in a ghetto neighborhood. again, no. the average house value where i live is one million, yet im quite sure that if someone were to screw someone else over, something would go down."</p>

<p>I never made that suggestion at all. But you asked if I had heard of vandalism or assault in my area. It occurs very infrequently (vandalism of personal property almost never happens), and the guy generally gets caught. It just doesn't come up. People screw each other over all the time over here. They deal with it. Please don't make assumptions about people you don't know. If the kid is totally erratic and has a history of vandalism, maybe there is a concern. But even if I got that ****ed, I'm not sure that I would vandalize something. Just, let's try not to make assumptions about things we don't know. I'll try to stop as well.</p>

<p>"im not arguing whether what the cheater did is ETHICALLY wrong. obviously it is. what i AM arguing is whether it even matters anymore."</p>

<p>It does matter. Assume Yale finds out some other way. How about a possible conversation at his HS:</p>

<p>GC: Oh, Timmy, go ask xxxx for a rec. She wrote a great one for Tom!
Timmy: Sure bet, Mr. xxxx! That's swell!</p>

<p>Later that same day...</p>

<p>Timmy: Oh, Ms. xxxx! You look ravishing! I heard about the great rec you wrote for Tom last year! I would love if you could write one for me, if it wouldn't bother you!
Ms. xxxx: ...............</p>

<p>There. Cover blown. Timmy knows, Ms. xxxx knows, the GC knows. If one of them decides to contact Yale, the latter may decide that the school is untrustworthy. Given what I've seen at my own school, that situation is not at all unlikely.</p>

<p>You are potentially destroying the trust between Yale and the school by not addressing it now.</p>

73

<p>no, actually i would turn him in.</p>

<p>its just that for some reason CC regards cheating as the highest offense, while i couldnt even care less if others do it. sure, i would have reported this dude if someone else could take his spot at yale, but that wont happen anymore. this is different from a crime. this is just cheating...obviously im the minority in this thread but thats ok. i dont get any pleasure from turning in cheaters, and i dont care if its the right thing to do. cheaters can live their lives as they want.</p>

74

<p>I posted earlier about how it's against the law....but how can one even fake their recs? I mean the counselor has to sign off as well right? And the counselor also has to send the recommendations to the schools...wouldn't the counselor know he/she hasn't seen the recs/signed or whatever? I could be wrong but it is virtually impossible to fake a recommendation unless guidance/the teachers were in on it as well. If so, and Yale calls the school, in order to maintain good relation (so future students are accepted) guidance could say the letters were authentic.</p>

75

<p>Didn't read all the posts here, just coming back here to post again. If you're going to report him-which I probably would, but then again I'm not in that position, I would do it 100% anonymously. It isn't a matter of having bigger balls or anything. You have <em>no</em> obligation to meet him to his face. You're a complete idiot if you think he won't find retaliation someway somehow if he knows its you. This guy is crafty and cunning enough to forge teacher recs (assuming it's true). This guy obviously has no respect for the law and <em>would</em> get you. Think about it. How many kids can even forge a rec successfully? It takes a lot of work. It's not as simple as just filling it out and then mailing. (There was a thread on this earlier on CC, but basically colleges mail back the teachers stuff, sometimes call them, at some schools you even need your school's seal, etc. its **not simple **thats my point) Furthermore, even if you have no moral compunction doing something like that-it doesn't mean you will do it. It also takes a lot of guts, a lack of fear of getting caught! Seriously, those people saying that if you're caught you have little to worry about are just plain old naive. This isn't a normal human being who will be angry but get over it. Normal human beings don't try to forge recs. Normal human beings are scared they'll get caught doing those things. So yeah, if you're going to do it, remain COMPLETELY anonymous-don't even tell the teachers who you are- it's entirely possible that they're going to have a point of view similar to some on this thread that the accused must always be confronted by the witness. To be honest, if you feel you must confront him if you're going to tell-don't turn him in. It's not worth what he potentially could do to you. To be honest, I care more about my future (and life, trust me it is not out of the question if you're dealing with some kids) than Yale having one cheater on their hands. And lastly, have you found it odd that these cheater threads all involve Yale freshmen (is it the same one lol?)</p>

76

<p>Re: "technically impossible"</p>

<p>Maybe his school didn't keep track of whose recommendations got signed off. My school, for example, has four different GCs (although each student is assigned one); it's possible that someone could slip through the cracks on something. </p>

<p>OR the kid just wrote and signed the teachers' letters and got them signed off by guidance... risky, but hey, the whole maneuver is.</p>

77

<p>
[QUOTE]
Going to Yale will ruin your life

[/QUOTE]

:) :) :) :)</p>

78

<p>yessss</p>

<p>finally someone to agree with</p>

<p>cervantes is totally right. if he finds out who reported him, it would be strange if he DIDNT retaliate.</p>

79

<p>*To be honest, I care more about my future (and life, trust me it is not out of the question if you're dealing with some kids) than Yale having one cheater on their hands. *</p>

<p>EDIT to read "...one MORE cheater on their hands." As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I googled "Yale honor code" to see if there is one. I found a string of hits saying that Yale won't adopt one even though they have a longstanding cheating epidemic! </p>

<p>I continue to maintain that this is one of the best threads I've read on cc. While I have your attention, though, chance my S at Yale? He's almost done writing his own recommendations from his high school teachers and he says they are great.</p>

80

<p>I fully understand where you're coming from. Cheating is a huge problem in higher education probably the biggest behind accessibility of college. However it is not restricted to schools with or without an honor code, good schools, average schools, state schools, public schools. It isn't Yale's fault. I'm positive there are just as many cheaters at Stanford and Princeton, two top schools with strict honor codes. Even if Yale enacted an honor code, I highly doubt that would have a sizable effect on the number of cheaters. I believe this problem starts in high school when kids use cheating as a crutch to do well, knowing that the consequences are minor if any at most public schools and are unable to shake this off when they do get to college. I do agree this is a great thread, that shows many things (not just people's views on cheating).</p>