<p>So, an extension of your logic would be, if I got away with littering and saw someone murdering someone whom I do not know, I have no right to turn the person in without being a hypocrite? Especially since it is "NOT my discretion to decide how large/small an offense is"? I just want to make sure I have you right and you don't say I'm putting words in your mouth.</p>
<p>lets extend it to crimes/offenses that dont directly affect other people. obviously i dont mean murder.</p>
<p>or even just make it about cheating. sorry for talking about crimes, just make it about cheating.</p>
<p>then it makes sense, actually. i highly doubt there are any completely pure people out there who have never cheated in some way.</p>
<p>If I got caught speeding because someone I passed called the police, I would be *<strong><em>ed. But I wouldn't be *</em></strong>ed at the "snitcher" as you call it. It was my choice to speed. </p>
<p>The only scenario in which I would be really angry at the "snitcher" would be if he had been involved too and chose to snitch to save himself. That sounds like something that zzzboy and banky would endorse, though, since all that matters to them is that their own interests are met.</p>
<p>EDIT: That's first time I ever typed the word "****ed" on CC. I didn't know CC features automatic censoring! Cool.</p>
<p>laxtaxi, doesnt your husband feel the same way i do?</p>
<p>i never endorsed snitching to save my own skin. im only endorsing indifference because i and most likely 99% of students are in no position to snitch on cheaters since we have in some way cheated before and got away with it.</p>
<p>You see what you're doing though? Why make it ONLY cheating? I'll answer that... you don't think cheating is "THAT bad" at least when compared to crimes that directly affect other people. Yet, you use circuitous logic saying that it is "NOT your discretion to decide how large/small an offense is". Well, which way is it?</p>
<p>And laxtaxi, I have to admit, I would be ****ed at the person who called the police for me speeding. :)</p>
<p>its not really circuitous logic. compared to criminal acts, cheating is most certainly NOT that bad. we already know this; there are no legal consequences for cheating. they are two different realms; they can be compared. what cant be done, though, is deciding how to rank the severity of offenses within each realm. but wait? judges decide sentences for crimes, so then crimes can most certainly be ranked. thats why i said to omit crimes...they involve innumerable different kinds of offenses ranging from littering to extortion, whereas cheating involves ONE--taking credit for something that you really didnt do.</p>
<p>edit: cervantes, have you ever cheated on anything? id like to know.</p>
<p>I agree that "compared to criminal acts, cheating is most certainly NOT that bad". But I also contend that talking during a test is not seen the same as forging a teacher's recommendation. You however don't think it's our place to do so. Why not? You talk about judges. But wait, last time I checked there's 1st degree and 2nd degree murder. Heck, there's also manslaughter and involuntary manslaughter. And, heck some people get the death penalty for 1st degree while some people only get 25 years and even in extremely rare cases get parole. It seems to me that there are differences in punishment for even the same exact crime given the circumstances. If not, why don't we have computer programs instead of judges decide the sentences?</p>
<p>As some people may have already said, this kid must have already had what it took to be accepted to Yale. Recs aren't that big a deal, since 99% recs are good anyway, so I'm actually surprised he didn't pick something else to cheat on. </p>
<p>And most likely he was just joking, but even if he wasn't, it really isn't your business. He didn't hurt you or anyone else, so don't try to ruin his life just because you want to be a hero. If neither the high school nor Yale was able to find out about it, then it's done. He got away with it, so forget about it and just don't be like him.</p>
<p>yea but thats exactly what im trying to say. do YOU feel that you have the authority to decide which offenses are greater than yours and report them?</p>
<p>thats where the whole idea of not snitching originated. it just gets too complicated when you try to compare cheating offenses, so the next best thing to do is just forget about them.</p>
<p>i most certainly do not feel i have the authority to snitch on others. i have done my share of cheating (ill admit), and i would feel awful if i turned someone in. im not a bad person either. i love learning and i wouldnt dare cheat in college, but i have no right to turn others in for things i have done.</p>
<p>you see, judges also disagree on the severity of crimes, but they THEMSELVES are not lawbreakers. that relates to what i said before. if you have never cheated in the smallest way, then go ahead, snitch.</p>
<p>
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cervantes, have you ever cheated on anything? id like to know.
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</p>
<p>I'd like to know why you care. If it's killing you so much to know though, no I haven't. I've never seen the need to and our school makes it very tough to do so without getting caught if you're not very skilled at doing it. Though, I'm not like some CC posters who view cheating as an antisocial act-indeed some of my best friends are cheaters, but I don't know anyone who would dare forge a rec.</p>
<p>then youre a good man. i wouldnt mind if a person like you snitched. </p>
<p>and i agree, CC views cheaters as devils.</p>
<p>i hope you see what im trying to get at, though. people that cheat and turn others in are hypocrites.</p>
<p>even if i never cheated in my life, i STILL wouldnt turn people in for cheating. like seriously, WHO CARES? let them do what they want. you have to be a nerd to get pleasure from turning in cheaters.</p>
<p>Thanks for thinking I'm a good man, but no, I really don't see what you are getting at. I don't think it makes you a hypocrite for turning someone in for forging a teacher recommendation if all you've ever done is talk during a test! No one does. Of course, if you're the kind of person who would forge your transcript and steal copies of the SATs yes, you are a hypocrite if you turn in a person who forged a rec. But you need to see that there are varying degrees of cheating that reasonable people can judge. I wouldn't associate myself with a person who forged a rec, but to be honest, I know that my best friend cheats on half of the tests he takes. If I decided to only associate with people who have never cheated, well I wouldn't have many friends now would I? Yet even he would likely at least bring it to a teacher's attention (even a teacher in whom's class he cheated in no less) that someone forged their rec. The point is, forging a rec is not really a victim-less crime. A teacher's name was used without their permission! It's not a matter of getting pleasure from turning them in it is a matter of peace of mind knowing that the teacher knows what occurred. How could you face a teacher knowing that someone forged their rec and you couldn't inform them? It would be pretty hard, now wouldn't it? I'm not saying that OP should definitely tell, I'm not saying that he's being immoral if he doesn't tell, and indeed it's very easy for me to say "tell on him" without knowing the guy and being in the situation. What I take issue with is the way you castigate those that would indeed tell in the situation. It doesn't make them a hypocrite or a nerd.</p>
<p>meh, im done with his thread. to each his own. im apparently much more apathetic than you are. i personally think forging a rec is pretty bada$$, but thats just me. i never really thought about how the teacher feels. if it were simple cheating/lying on his application, then i wouldnt turn him in. but if i knew the teacher pretty well then i might consider telling.</p>
<p>
<p>Its like would you risk getting yourself or your family hurt for no gain? Ihope the answer is no.
</p>
<p>Great assessment. Some of these posters are too narrow focused. Best analysis and direction advise I've read so far!</p>
<p>It kinda reminds of the situation where the Dean of Admission at MIT resigned because she lied on her app that she had a college degree at Union and someone anonylously found out and turned her in. </p>
<p>Where is she right now, doing nothing in her basement, entire future destroyed. Did she deserve it? Maybe, yes, definitely, but it helped her get her job and she did prove to the world that she was a successful individual even while lacking a college degree. I think these things have its ways of coming back to them. I can imagine how angry she had been for being found out.</p>
<p>"I can imagine how angry she had been for being found out."</p>
<p>I bet she was mad. Should have thought about the consequences before she lied.</p>
<p>this thread is great entertainment. it's just like a circus freak show of people with freak morals and utterly distorted logic!</p>
<p>Please, expound on that statement. Personal attacks are nothing without a basis.</p>
<p>sorry, I certainly don't find the need or obligation to substantiate anything, just like certain people on this thread.</p>
<p>
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this thread is great entertainment. it's just like a circus freak show of people with freak morals and utterly distorted logic!
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</p>
<p>Ugh, its comments like these that lead to
[Quote]
you have to be a nerd to get pleasure from turning in cheaters.
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</p>
<p>Be respectful of other people's opinions. Ad hominem attacks should not be tolerated on this thread.</p>
<p>"I am also very kind so I hate to see people losing their college acceptance. I don't see what the OP can gain from this. "</p>
<p>Again, how selfish ARE you? If he does it completely anonymously, it won't HURT the OP at all. So that's not a deterrent. Does he honestly need some sort of benefit from this to make it worthwhile? What a terrible view of things!</p>
<p>"I just don't think its justified to risk the op's own life as well as his family's for something that doesn't affect him at all."</p>
<p>Assumptions, assumptions, assumptions. Try this: Back it up. PROVE that the person who got snitched will find out that the OP anonymously did this even though the school is covering it up for him. Also prove that this kid will risk his life and his family's. Oh wait, you can't! Imagine that...</p>
<p>"If the guy who got snitched spreads the news, the OP's college life isn't going to be very fun. People in college hate snitches and trust me on that."</p>
<p>Obviously. No one's arguing that. But if you don't "snitch" just because of what people will think of you, I guess you value your reputation among cheaters than your integrity and preserving the integrity of classwork.</p>
<p>"1. I really don't care about Yale accepting a cheater or not, Im not gonna feel sry for Yale just because it has one cheater in its school. Heck there are probably hundreds of cheaters in Yale who got in legit. People just cheat what can you do? The best you can do is not cheat with them."</p>
<p>I don't understand... Why would that be better? Why would you NOT cheat if no one ever turns you in? I fail to see why anyone would stop at all. Start turning them in, and the numbers decrease. Oh, cheating will still happen, but I would hope that people make sure the cheaters get caught.</p>
<p>"2. Doing it this late just seemed messed up"</p>
<p>TO YOU. What about to Yale? To the teachers?</p>
<p>"5.OP would also hurt his own reputation(seriously lets be real whether its in college or in HS, a snitch will always be a snitch and who do we hate the most in HS and college? Sntichs)"</p>
<p>I hate cheaters more. Fortunately, with 10-person class sizes, cheating isn't an issue. Hands on desks at all times, teachers stroll around the classroom. Last time someone tried plagiarizing homework, they got owned.</p>
<p>"get real people. if you feel accomplished by reporting a cheater, then you have serious self-esteem issues. "</p>
<p>I don't feel accomplished at all. I would rather never have anyone cheat.</p>
<p>"let cheaters do what they want. its cool if you choose to not participate in cheating, but snitching is just damn wrong."</p>
<p>It's not wrong. That's complete bull. Should we let murderers do what they want? NO. Counterfeiters? NO. Rapists? NO. People who say mean things to others? NO. These are all on different levels of "badness," but I haven't seen an argument from you that establishes that the magnitude of the crime is even relevant. Cheating hurts other people. You are being compared to people who work honestly. If you are cheating, you are hurting them.</p>
<p>"how would you feel if someone snitched every time you did something wrong? if you have EVER done anything against the rules/law (underage drinking, drugs, etc) and got away with it, then you are in no position to even think about snitching."</p>
<p>Drinking: No. A shot of gin in my house, with my mother. Shot=gulp
Drugs: No.
Speeding: Accidentally, once.
Jaywalking: No.
Cheating: HahahNo.</p>
<p>Any others? Please stop forcing people arguing for snitching into either a state of apparent self-righteousness or a position in which they erroneously feel they cannot snitch because they themselves have committed errors. A rapist who never got caught reports a man who beat his dog on the street. Is he unjustified? I don't think so.</p>
<p>"YES because it is NOT your discretion to decide how large/small an offense is. if youve EVER done something wrong and gotten away with it, then youre a straight hypocrite if you turn someone else in. cheating on a test and cheating in admissions is the SAME thing."</p>
<p>Whether they are is debatable. I've never cheated in either. Guess I'm clear? And even if I'm not, being a hypocrite doesn't make snitching wrong. </p>
<p>"yea but thats exactly what im trying to say. do YOU feel that you have the authority to decide which offenses are greater than yours and report them?"</p>
<p>No. Report all offenses. Problem solved. Please stop arguing from the perspective that being a hypocrite is the worst thing ever when you haven't supported that erroneous assumption at all. </p>
<p>"And most likely he was just joking, but even if he wasn't, it really isn't your business."</p>
<p>I find someone mugging someone else on the street. It's none of my business, right? The kid TOLD him that he cheated. The fraud is still ongoing, it hasn't stopped. It's his business because he knows.</p>
<p>"i most certainly do not feel i have the authority to snitch on others. i have done my share of cheating (ill admit), and i would feel awful if i turned someone in."</p>
<p>That's nice. I wouldn't feel bad at all. If I cheated, I would hate it if someone turned me in, but it's the right thing for them to do. Not that that would ever be a problem, I hope.</p>