Family Invests $15 k to Try to Position Kid for Harvard

Parent Cafe
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<p>What's particularly sad beside the obvious is that Harvard and similar colleges aren't impressed by things like pricey summer programs and pricey community service trips abroad. </p>

<p>While the parents say they're trying to get their D interested in schools other than Harvard, their statement seems disingenuous. Looks to me like they're paying big bucks to try to help their D look good to Harvard.</p>

<p>"Families are spending thousands on private counselors, SAT prep and other extras to get their kid into a top college.
By Ellyn Spragins, Money Magazine contributing writer
November 20 2006: </p>

<p>NEW YORK (Money Magazine) -- Plenty of parents fantasize about their child going to Harvard. But Paula and Gary Goldberg of Boca Raton, Fla. aspire instead to get their daughter Rachael, a high school junior, interested in schools other than Harvard.</p>

<p>Why, when the 17-year-old honors student is so clearly Ivy League material?
First, of course, there's the price tag: Room, board and tuition at Harvard will cost about $44,000 this year. Then there's the strain on Rachael, who's pushing herself relentlessly to pursue academic and extracurricular activities she believes will give her a competitive edge....</p>

<p>For three summers, the Goldbergs paid about $3,000 to send Rachael to a three-week Duke University program for gifted students.
They've hired a private college counselor ($1,500 fee) to advise them about specific steps she can take to give her a leg up in the admissions process...
A PSAT review course ran another $850.
And Rachael plans to spend $4,500 of her bat mitzvah money to go to Thailand this summer to perform community service.
Total so far: more than $15,500.
... Over the past four years, their income (Gary, 42, is a real estate agent; Paula, 43, a nurse) has fluctuated dramatically, from $50,000 to $200,000 a year, along with changes in the property market. This year is one of the leaner ones.</p>

<p>They've got expenses for their younger kids (sons Jacob, 13, and Joshua, 9) to think about too. ...
Still, Paula believes that Rachael, an academic superstar who is ranked second in her class, deserves whatever help they can give her:</p>

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<p>Yikes, why bother? There are so many other schools out there where Rachel could get a free ride or close to it...they would be doing themselves a favor and to their 2 younger children...</p>

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<p>I think the headline makes the situation sound worse than it really is. I assume that the three summer programs were through the TIP program. Maybe I'm a bit defensive because both of my kids attended TIP, but I found the program to be extremely worthwhile for lots of reasons, with a possible boost in college admissions being a miniscule or negligible thought. I think most parents who've sent their kids to TIP or CTY would say the programs have a tremendous amount of value and did not send their kids there with an eye towards helping their kids get into a top school. Besides that, two of the summers my children attended were before high school anyway, so colleges would never even know they'd attended.</p>

<p>As for the expensive community service trip, it sounds like a vacation that the girl is funding herself through gifts.</p>

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<p>I've sent my S to TIP, too, but never saw it as something to get him into a top college. I just sent him because he wanted to go and loved the program.</p>

<p>The way the article is written, however, indicates that the girl has been pushing herself to do things to get to Harvard. That's very different than someone doing something because they love learning.</p>

<p>Also, if someone loves learning, there really are alternative activities that one can do or even create instead of spending $3,000 to go to TIP. I sent S to Talent Search programs for 2 years, but afterward helped him find other activities that were more affordable for us even though he'd loved to have gone back to TIP and CTY.</p>

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<p>NSM: Am I interpreting things differently?</p>

<p>Your tag line says,"Family Invests $15 k to Try to Position Kid for Harvard "</p>

<p>but the body of the message says," Plenty of parents fantasize about their child going to Harvard. But Paula and Gary Goldberg of Boca Raton, Fla. aspire instead to get their daughter Rachael, a high school junior, interested in schools other than Harvard."</p>

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<p>When it comes to purchasing --yes, that is the correct term-- a spot in an expensive summer program, it does work at some schools, but it hardly appears universal. </p>

<p>At the end of the day, there are no summer programs that will mask a lack of passion for the activities pursued. A similar list of activities might support one candidate as part of a cohesive presentation, but might backfire for another if there is little supporting information. That is why it is impossible to evaluate the summer programs with ... objectivity. The most unfortunate angle is that families start believing that is has become a necessary TOOL for admissions purpose instead of being an expression of true interest or passion of their children. </p>

<p>As far as the "investment" would the figure of $15,000 not sound like small potatoes for families with children in private schools? What is the cost of 12-15 years of private schools per child? As much as $250,000! Even at the low end, one needs about $50,000 for a full K-12 of private education. </p>

<p>So, doesn't the combination of taking advantage of our public school system AND spending freely on expensive counsultants, buying into community service/vacation gigs in Tibet or Outer Mongolia, or other "in" summer programs truly yield the best return on investment possible?</p>

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<p>I'm with Simba. Also there seems to be a lot of editorializing in the article. Can we say for sure that the Goldbergs sent their daughter to TIP in order to maximize her chances to get into Harvard as opposed to nurturing her love of learning? One must assume that she loved the experience if she returned twice. Isn't that good enough. Yes, there are other ways to spend one's summer. So what? The girl spent one more summer at TIP than NSM's son at his Talent Search program. Sheesh! What overkill!
As for the trip to Thailand, it's the girl's money. She can do what she wants with it. I'd love it if my kids showed interest in traveling there. </p>

<p>My tally of the Goldberg's expenses runs to $2,350. Not worth devoting an article or sermonizing about misplaced priorities.</p>

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<p>Hey I know parents who spend that every year for soccer so their kids can get a scholarship somewhere since they were 11. While I wouldn't do what they did, hey whatever floats your boat.</p>

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<p>Many spend a whole lot more than this family. I know plenty of people who pay for summer camps "for the gifted," test tutors, expensive community service, etc, IN ADDITION to the $20,000+/year tuition for day school.</p>

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<p>I think my son came across as unique because he HATES community service!</p>

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<p>K-mom, exactly!! Looks like they are on the economy plan to me! A mere $1500 for a college counselor. (don't they love their daughter??) The $850 PSAT review course? Private tutor would be more effective. I completely forgot about private school tuition, but sure, if you added up the total cost of a lifetime of summer camp and ECs it wouldn't be too hard to come up with numbers far more shocking than $15,000!</p>

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<p>This is not all that unusual. A relative who lives in the northeast and is very involved in college admissions reported that parents at the local top public HS spend on average $45,000 over 4 years of high school on the college admission process. It is very successful in getting kids into top Ivy's, and that's why the parents do it.</p>

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<p>I only know what was presented in the first post here. Based on that, it doesn't sound like these parents invested that amount to "position" their daughter for Harvard. Attending summer programs can be an enriching activity in itself and I hardly think all the kids who went to summer programs growing up did so to position themselves for college. I don't know why that expense was in the total here. There is no evidence that the family sent their D to these programs to "look good for college". In fact, the girl returned a second year to the program. If she was only looking for "points" on the college resume, she'd have accomplished it in one summer at the Duke program for gifted kids. My kids went away every summer because they were dying to and chose activities they wanted to do. We never ever thought of college when it came to what they were going to do for the summer. I am 100% certain that they'd have done the same summer activities had they never gone onto college. I recall one summer, my older D wanted to travel abroad and she researched ways to do it and found a program that combined competitive tennis (something she does) and going abroad. So, she called to inquire about the program and I recall the director saying to her, "This will look really good for college" and my daughter was dumbfounded by the remark. It just had never been anything she ever considered. I understand that the families the company were used to dealing with from certain kinds of communities cared about that sort of thing and it was nothing that entered my kid's mind. That kind of reasoning for choosing extracurriculars or summer activities was nothing we were familiar with but it was clear that this guy was selling that point and we found it kinda funny, though my kid just wanted to go to other countries and also improve her competitive tennis and so she did it. But I still recall that conversation! </p>

<p>I also don't see proof that the girl in the article is going to Thailand in order to get into college. Maybe she truly IS interested in traveling to a third world country. My kids would enjoy that too. I don't see this girl's summer activities as positioning for college admissions UNLESS the family truly stated that that is why she chose those activities. But truly there are many kids who are genuinely interested in summer programs and/or travel for its own sake. I don't see this family's "investment" in enriching activities or summer plans as an investment in preparation for college. I never thought of the money we spent on activities or summers was to get into college. It was simply part of raising our children and supporting their interests and enrichment. </p>

<p>Also, the title that they are investing to get their kid into Harvard doesn't gel with the text about the parents hoping their daughter looks into schools other than Harvard. </p>

<p>Lastly, there is an assumption that all who engage a college counselor, do so to have a "leg up" to get into better schools or some such. I imagine that some hire counselors for that reason. But that is NOT true for all who hire a college counselor. Some merely want HELP with the college selection and admissions process. Yes, I think parents could do this on their own with their kid. But some families find they want the support in going through the process and for whatever reason, don't go at it on their own. NOT ALL who engage a counselor are looking for the counselor to get their kid into a better college (I don't think that is the counselor's job anyway!). I'm a college counselor and I help kids find colleges appropriate for them and help them through the process like I would my own kid and am very knowledgeable about the process and can help them in ways they would not have been as capable of doing on their own without guidance. But I just take them where they are at and look for appropriate schools and guide them with the process. I don't position anyone to get into a school that they would not have been capable of getting into anyway. In fact, there is this assumption that families are hiring counselors to get into elite colleges. I have to tell you that I have had several clients with SATs of about 1000 (CR/M) and GPAs under 3.0. Very very few are trying to "position" themselves for Ivies. Even for top students, I don't position them...they are already qualified. They are who they are. So, the fact that this family hired a counselor to help them with the admissions process is not anything to write home about. I work with plenty of kids selecting colleges and/or applying to colleges who will never be applying to an Ivy or anything close to one. But I guess those kids don't make such a good news story.</p>

<p>By the way, I agree with Xiggi about what is the difference if a family invests in summer programs than the loads of families who invest in private education? Some invest in private schools (K-12) because the schools are a better fit for their children in some way. But there are SOME who invest in private and/or boarding schools because they believe it will help their children get into a "better college" (I have seen some local people send their kids away for this very reason, even though my kid got into the same college their kid got into coming out of our public school). So, maybe the article might want to bring up the families who invested thousands in private K-12 schools or boarding schools to "position" their kids (not all who opt for private schools do so for this reason, but some likely do). It is the same with the family who paid for summer enrichment. Some do so to engage in worthwhile experiences around their interests. Others do so for some "master plan" in relation to college admissions. There are all types. This article, based on the little I read, seems to assume only one reason the family did any of these things and that is a generalization (unless the family really did state "college admissions" as their reasons for these expenditures).</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Rachael plans to spend $4,500 of her bat mitzvah money to go to Thailand this summer to perform community service.

[/quote]

Maybe I'm not cynical enough or not jaded from watching kids twist themselves into something that their not for a college acceptance. I see this as a girl who wants to use the money that she received in the spirit of celebrating her becoming an adult in the eyes of God and her religion in a meaningful and thoughtful way. Maybe she is just working the system, but I hope this is a genuine gift from her heart to those who are much less fortunate than she.</p>

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<p>My daughter has gone on mission trips (Appalachians rather than Thailand) for years and it is certainly not with any thought of positioning herself for college. She was not aware enough of college at 14. She loves doing it and is very sad that this summer will be her last until she turns 21 (their rules). I agree with coronax that it is sad that this is portrayed this way.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
"Rachael plans to spend $4,500 of her bat mitzvah money to go to Thailand this summer to perform community service."</p>

<p>"I see this as a girl who wants to use the money that she received in the spirit of celebrating her becoming an adult in the eyes of God and her religion in a meaningful and thoughtful way."</p>

<p>"I also don't see proof that the girl in the article is going to Thailand in order to get into college. Maybe she truly IS interested in traveling to a third world country. My kids would enjoy that too."

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Doesn't the cynicism come from asking if the community where the student lives is so perfect that there isn't a big need for LOCAL community service? How much do the travel expenses eat in the total budget for the service? </p>

<p>Not all international community services or volunteering programs are created equal. A younger friend of mine just left for Africa, but he will stay there for ... his last two years of high school! THE attraction of many of the programs targeting high school students for a 2-4 weeks summer program are exactly what SoozieVT described: traveling to a third world country. It is aka playing tourist first and volunteering being a potential aftertought!</p>

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<p>I do agree with Xiggi to a certain extent. I always cringe a bit when I hear of people spending a fortune to go on a 'jaunt' for charity. My Dad (several years ago) went on the equivilant of a walkathon - in Nepal. When he asked me to sponsor him I said I would donate direct to the charity but I was not paying for him to go to Nepal! That sounds a bit mean - but he could afford to pay for himself to go to Nepal a lot more than I could afford to sponsor him. Plus it was the principal - the first $X,000 raised going to pay for the trip did not sit right with me.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
How much do the travel expenses eat in the total budget for the service?

[/quote]
I agree with xiggi. Take the $4500 and pay for the private school tuition for a ghetto kid. Or just contribute it to a worthy charity. Those community service trips are not entirely alturistic. D's school has run one for decades to a mission in Central America run by the school's religious order. The relationsip has been a longstanding one, ongoing long before these trips became an ivy-admissions trend. D has raised $$ to send to the mission, but I won't send her as a participant. The thousands would be much better spent on sending a trained professional, such as an RN, or a shipping container of meds & supplies, than it would on a quasi-mission/vacation for my kid.</p>

<p>I told her that Newark, NJ is a heck of a lot closer if she wants to serve the needy. Not as exotic, perhaps. She tutors inner city kids every week. No need to hop on a plane to make a contribution.</p>

<p>If you read the full Money article, it mentions that the girl has started a foundation. Oh God, another foundation started by a Harvard applicant.........yawn.</p>

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<p>I know, Xiggi. But I know many, many kids (and a number of them are at HPY) who would use their gift money to bask on a beach in the Caribbean or some other luxury vacation. Even more will take a trek through Europe. Know one who did go to Thailand but entirely on her schedule. To go somewhere to WORK, is a whole different story to me. My neighbor's daughter spent some weeks in Mexico in a similar program. Lived in absolute simplicity and did heavy labor along with teaching kids English. Yes, it was a bought package, but this is a family that could go to Mexico for leisure, and the young lady is already IN college, and does do more than a smattering of community service here. In a sense, she is gaining knowledge about how some things are done in Mexico, outside of the context of a resort. Whether her work contribution was worth even a fraction of what she paid to the company to work, is not the issue as much as the experience and knowledge she gained. It would be neither safe, nor as efficient for her to just head to Mexico and look for some project that would accept here as a volunteer (may even be detrimental as too many volunteers may be putting those there who need money out of that work). But what she could glean from the time and effort spent there, is valuable, and I feel that it's great she wanted to spend her money and muscles that way. </p>

<p>A lot of community service for short spurts is make work, especially when they charge for it. The younger and less experienced the volunteer is with limited time to work, the harder it is to get him work. Anyone who has served as a liason to a community service center will tell you that. Because of school and church comm service requirements, we would get a flood of kids who wanted something really just to get those requirements taken care of. It's the ones who put the real time in that are so needed.</p>

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<p>I should add that once our kids have learned valuable skills, the trips are wonderful. We have several friends who are surgeons that take staff members to third world countries for 2-3 week "surgical missions." Their work & sacrifice is truly inspirational.</p>