<p>Borat should be a lesson to all of us. You never know the slant and headline of an article or media interview until it comes out. I don't think the family was outrageous at all. Prep courses at Princeton Review and Kaplan run over $1000 here and a lot of people sign up for them. I'll probably spend that much on test prep for my son with a community prep course and a tutor. I know the Xiggi method, but for my kid, the structure is more productive. I was a Xiggi kid many years ago before there was a Xiggi but the genes did not get passed down. If she enjoyed the summer program and kept going back, I look at it as someone who enjoys doing some school work at a different level and perspective during the summer. The Thailand program too is no big deal. And though I really hate the way this is going, I have a bad feeling that independent college counselors are going to be as necessary and prevalent as SAT prep soon. I think it is already happening here in my area. Many parents I know have hired one, and I'm willing to bet that many more have that are not admitting it. Found out from my son's former highschool classmates, that more than I thought went that route a few years ago. And most of them were satisfied and felt they got their money's worth., and will do it again with the next kid. </p>
<p>Of course, the family and child would harbor some ivy hopes if the kid has the grades and stats to be in the running. Nothing new about that. I guess the article is trying to show what people are spending on their kids these days when you add up all of these components that in my day were not part of the pre college prep program. But then I did not run with that crowd, nor did my parents have the money to do so even if I had wanted those amenities. I'm living it now with my kids' peers all "ivybound" , and even if they are not, these summers at colleges, SAT prep, community service you pay for, college counselors are encroaching. If I had one who wanted to do those things, I would consider them. As it is, I am trying to get mine to fill out the GC's initial collegebound questionairre.</p>
<p>Xiggi -- I don't think the journalist told the family that the slant of the article would be quite what it ended up being -- in fact from the first paragraph it is apparent that the parents are trying to get their daughter to look beyond the Ivy League. The journalist could have simply said she was interested in profiling high-achieving students and the kind of activities they are doing outside of school. </p>
<p>When my son was applying to colleges he was contacted by a Wall St. Journal writer who was doing some story about competitive admissions, and interviewed him asking a lot of question geared to getting him to talk about the stress or difficulty of the process. The problem is, my son is one of those kids who only took exams once, with no prep whatsoever, qualified for National Merit, and had his heart set on well-regarded but less selective LACs. (For example, he chose to apply to Pitzer but not CMC, even though his stats made CMC admission likely.) By the time of the interview he had already heard from NM-obsessed schools, like Macalester... so his answers to questions were pretty much along the lines of, "yeah, I just mailed my stuff in" and "no big deal". Needless to say his quotes were not used when the article came out -- instead the article was full of quotes from the overstressed. So I always wondered how many other kids' quotes were ignored in the pursuit of the journalist's theme.</p>
<p>Marite, you wrote: "The one expenditure which I really disagree with is the Thailand trip because it is indeed designed to impress adcoms. I don't see where you get that -- nothing that the girl or her parents said indicate that the trip was designed to impress anyone. That's simply the bias of the journalist writing the article -- the assumption that the trip is resume-building, as opposed to the far more likely scenario that the journalist simply asked what the student's plans were for the summer, and that is what came out. The fact that the kid is paying for the trip with her own gift money makes it far more likely that, like my own son, she wanted to do something special and exotic with her money. The real advantage of these community service trips is that they take kids to areas outside the realm of what tourists generally see, generally away from major cities and tourist attractions, and they get them in direct contact with the people who live in the country. And, FWIW, one reason that a lot of groups send kids to Thailand is that the Thai government and Thai people really welcome the cultural exchange -- my son felt that the people in the village where he was assigned treated him and the other kids like visiting royalty. </p>
<p>Again, I don't get any indication whatsoever that the kid in the article is doing things for the sake of impressing Harvard. I am sure that for the $1500 the family did shell out for college counseling, they have gotten enough advice to know that neither CTY nor a Thailand trip will accomplish that goal in any case. It seems to me more of a case of a kid who dreams big, and parents trying to encourage her to follow her dreams but also add a voice of reason. I'll bet the parents have asked the counselor to focus on helping the kid find good-fit colleges where admission is much more likely.</p>
<p>I object to the sensationalism and catch phrases in the article. "Boca Raton" appears prominently. Would they have mentioned city if it was Deerfield Beach or Delray Beach? I think not. She attends one of the 3 public schools, not one of the many private schools, e.g. Pinecrest. She went to TIP, not a summer camp that would have cost a lot more. Author used "Bat Mitzvah money" in a derogatory fashion. Family used an inexpensive counselor, when there is a reputable firm in area that costs thousands.
I'm waiting for FL papers to interview family for their reaction to the slanted article.</p>
<p>Calmom, isn't amazing how we can read the same article and draw very different conclusions? Obviously, the fact that it IS a poorly written piece accounts for a lot of the divergence. Readers simply have to fill the glaring blanks with their bias and speculation. </p>
<p>By the way, I'd wager a couple of pennies that the proposed trip to Thailand will NEVER happen! And, I also hope that the family looks for better counselors, even it means spending more money. Between the providers of free advice and the super-expensive counselors, there is a wide range. Looking at their current MO, it seems that this family has hit that amateurish soft spot that does not yield much of anything.</p>
<p>If we can trust the article, the family hired a private college counselor ($1,500 fee) to advise them about specific steps she can take to give her a leg up in the admissions process. One should seriously question a private counselor who would let his or her clients participate in such article by sharing private information as well as recommending the summer expenditure.</p>
<p>But Xiggi, the article didn't say that the counselor recommended the Thailand trip. There is not a single word in the article that relates the Thailand trip to the college admissions process -- that's an inference the writer expects you to draw.... possibly because she's trying to tally up a higher figure of college prep expenditures. (Note that the writer refers to the "family's budget" -- but Rachael is using her bat mitzvah money, not family finances).</p>
<p>And why do you doubt that the trip will happen? </p>
<p>Why would a set of parents who aspire "to get their daughter ... interested in schools other than Harvard" be paying for experiences designed as resume padding? That makes no sense. Isn't it more likely that those parents would encourage activities to help broaden their daughter's horizons & outlook? </p>
<p>It seems to me that the kid is following her own inclinations, and it is the author of the article who is playing the resume-tweaking game, but suggesting that the kid try to exploit her involvement with a foundation to help her visually impaired brother. </p>
<p>Try reading the article critically, teasing out the facts and the direct statements from the inferences the author tries to get you to draw from mere juxtaposition. You'll see that there is a lot less there on a second reading.</p>
<p>You might note that the article mentioned that the counselor was hired in part to help with "strategies for financial aid." </p>
<p>I am going to tell you something: one reason I was comfortable with my son spending his "college savings" on a Thailand trip at age 17 was that I realized that my son's little nest egg was no where enough to pay for any college, but that it was going to cause us to take a big hit on our EFC. So maybe that college counselor is giving the same advice to this family of 5 whose income is as low as $50K some years: the girl should spend her gift money before her senior year, so it isn't sitting there as an asset that needs to be declared on the FAFSA. If the counselor gives good advice on how to maximize aid eligibility, and helps find colleges where this high achiever is likely to get good merit aid... then the $1500 expenditure may be well worth it. (Yes, the family could get the same info by having a long conversation with Curmudgeon.... and they could have saved the $850 on the SAT review course by talking to you... but it is possible that they don't know about CC).</p>
<p>"Try reading the article critically, teasing out the facts and the direct statements from the inferences the author tries to get you to draw from mere juxtaposition. You'll see that there is a lot less there on a second reading."</p>
<p>Calmom, why do you assume I didn't read the article critically? I mentioned that people do apparently draw very different conclusions by focusing on different parts of the article. </p>
<p>Here's an example: In your eyes, the counselor was hired in part to help with "strategies for financial aid." However, you stop short of including the very next words "to advise them about specific steps she can take to give her a leg up in the admissions process." Same sentence and VERY different conclusions. </p>
<p>For the record, the statement that the parents do indeed aspire "to get their daughter ... interested in schools other than Harvard" is also an inference as there isn't a SINGLE element in the article that supports the "other schools" issue. Is there a difference between the first statement and "who's pushing herself relentlessly to pursue academic and extracurricular activities she believes will give her a competitive edge?" So, isn't this simply an exercise of "pick the lines you like?" </p>
<p>Oh, why do I ASSUME the trip will not happen? By now, the "buyer" has realized that it does not offer much value in boosting the application AND I still believe that the boost in the application process was the guiding light. </p>
<p>However, what I think or assume is not important at all. We could go on for days and debate the finer points of the article ad nauseam, and change little about our individual views. The reality is that each family is different and that there aren't any universal solutions. </p>
<p>Lastly, I don't think the example of this family was worthy of an inclusion in a magazine such as Money, but who am I to judge this. However, I do think it is a collosal mistake for anyone to be a participant in such stories and see his or her life story plastered in newspapers or magazines. To a great extent, the perils of sharing private information applies to this forum as well. </p>
<p>The siren's song and lure of a bit of publicity is unfortunately too hard to resist for some.</p>
<p>I'm not going to debate this with you. I just think that it is highly unlikely that the impact on college apps was ever a major concern in planning the Thailand trip, because it is NOT the type of thing that is hard to get into or that would impress colleges, and it is not marketed that way. (In other words, no kid would have ever thought that it would be the type of thing to impress Harvard). I think that any kid who was Ivy bound and seeking the service of a private college counselor for that purpose would be involved in much more competitive/elite activities. It's pretty clear from the outset of the article that the parents don't think they can afford Harvard and their fluctuating annual income means that they are more likely going to be interested in colleges that offer substantial merit aid.</p>
<p>One other thought on the Thailand trip - many synagogues (and I'm sure churches) have "sister city" relationships with Asian and African cities and with their counterpart congregations (yes, there are Jews in Thailand and in Africa). Perhaps this family's synagogue does as well? This trip could be part of that exchange.</p>
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I just think that it is highly unlikely that the impact on college apps was ever a major concern in planning the Thailand trip, because it is NOT the type of thing that is hard to get into or that would impress colleges, and it is not marketed that way.
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<p>Calmom, I just happen to believe the exact opposite. But, again, let's simply agree to disagree on that part. </p>
<p>However, regarding the marketing of foreign community service trips, I'd encourage you to lend an ear to the conversation of parents with disposable income who have children in highly competitive high schools in highly competitive cities. The race to find the best SAT tutor or best program to sign up for is an ever ending challenge, and as the parents in the article said ... something that has grown out of control.</p>
<p>Actually, the "competition" hardly starts in high school. During the Christmas break, I saw two of my nieces struggling to finish their high school applications and was amazed at the depth and complexity of the questions and "expectations." While the target schools were very good schools, they are still considered second tier schools trailing the super competitive private schools in their cities. </p>
<p>On CC, we do spend a lot of time debating the PSAT and SAT; seeing parents stressing about less known tests such as the SSAT or ISEE was a true eye- opener for me. Hearing about the fees charged by middle school counselors floored me.</p>