<p>i say that if you're not bothered by it, go ahead. some people are, as thumper1 clearly is, but he's stated his views very clearly and its obviously up to u to decide</p>
<p>Please. SPANISH people (that is, people from Spain, European people) oppressed, killed, conquered, and subjugated natives, mestizos, and Africans. Those people and the mixing of culture form what is today Hispanic. Though Spanish people from Spain are still Hispanic, the vast majority of those in the U.S. that would be "Hispanic" are those descendants of the mestizos/mulatto/African populations that were oppressed by the Spanish. I don't need a history lesson from you.</p>
<p>It doesn't take centuries for those to receive a decent education, true, and there are plenty of opportunities in this country for everyone to receive a decent education. However, the majority have had values instilled in them from centuries ago that education is the key to a successful life for most people. Centuries of oppression of such groups such as African Americans and Hispanics have instilled notions of survival rather than education. What I mean by this is that, if a newly freed slave family has no access to education and have been denied basic civil rights, they must do what they can to survive by working, etc. The children of those people won't be taught any better, because they won't have equal opportunities either. Only until very recently (1970s onward, I would say, although some would definitely say later or even still no) did minorities even BEGIN to have nearly equal standing or even equal rights with the majority. That's only a little over 30 years ago. Check out the ratio of single female families of minorities vs. that of the majority. And if you're trying to insinuate that minorities just don't take advantage of what's available to them, such as education, etc. because they're lazy or whatever, that's not the case. It's because they simply just don't KNOW the opportunities available to them because they've been kept away from them for so long. That is why there's scholarships for minorities, because this fact is acknowledged and there's an effort to bring minorities to the status of the majority in this country.</p>
<p>And as far as minorities that I may not have directly addressed according to your Wikipedia quote, these people (except for Asians) are definitely considered white and, while many of these groups have been oppressed at one time or another in one or more parts of the Americas, have ANY of these groups experienced extensive and organized slavery for centuries here? No. Have any of these groups that are in your Wikipedia quote (besides possibly Asians) experience current racism? Except for Asians, these groups of people are definitely considered white and so as a result definitely have the benefits of their northern European counterparts. Those that are Caucasian Americans definitely have rich cultural heritage, but only if they acknowledge it; otherwise, a lot of people can't even tell the difference between Americans descended from the Balkans and those whose family originally came from, say, Sweden. It's a lot easier for an employer or for society to discriminate against an African American or Hispanic person because they're more easily recognizable. You're forgetting the obstacles that still plague these two groups of people today (yes, they DO face more obstacles still than the majority, and racism does STILL exist because of a HISTORY of it here in the U.S.).</p>
<p>And you probably don't even know the origins of your last name. Not interested in the history behind it at all, only the benefits that it will reap.</p>
<p>
[quote]
you can claim any ethnicity you want. it is even illegal for them to ask for proof.
[/quote]
I thought that colleges and scholarships routinely asked for tribal affiliations of people who say they are American Indian?</p>
<p>Right, i don't understand why complete diversity at all costs is just assumed to be great. No one is even allowed to question it or debate it on merits.</p>
<p>I do not think everyone thinks it is great, I know a fair number of black people who resent the partonizing/paternalistic nature of AA. But it has its roots in our parents generation. Our parents lived through and created the civil rights movement. I think mainly because of its success, most students/youths now see race as a non issue/moot point. The younger, more liberal youths are promoting class/income based AA, but this will probably not be put in place until the current college "regime" retires. But like I said, the current regime leaders were once those "liberal youths" who saw the great injustices of the 1950's so it is their duty to achieve racial equality. </p>
<p>Also, I believe currently that it is less about "diversity" and more about evening out the playing field between those (white) candidates who could afford tutors, and take the SAT/ACT 7 times, but I see AA helping the rich black kids the most who do not need any help getting into college in the first place. </p>
<p>^^^^^There are just my thoughts, no facts or extensive research for those who are about to show me up</p>
<p>Why not create a policy that allows for socio-economic status to be used in conjuction with the current AA standards?</p>
<p>im confused...sorry if it's a stupid question but what's an LAC?</p>
<p>Liberal Arts College</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Example: Affirmative Action.</p>
<p>No history lesson will convince me that AA is justifiable. Whatever economic hardships typically undertaken by minorities can be addressed with the same need-based financial aid everyone is eligible for. As for ADMISSIONS, segregation ended in the '60s. Minority students are learning the same things as whites, they have access to the same public schools that millions of white kids attend. As for private schools? Believe me, most don't even help with admissions, they're better off not going. I wish I had gone to a public school.</p>
<p>Admissions-wise, the playing field is level, but AA makes it disproportionate. Economically, perhaps not. But when education is free anyway up until college, how does that factor into the equation?</p>
<p>^actually its false that minority students have access to the same public schools or that they learn the same things. Schools are one of the most segregated aspect of American life with a majority of black students attending predominantly black schools. </p>
<p>But anyway, you can't really lie. As soon as you enroll as a minority students many colleges will send some kind of "diversity welcoming" counselor or something to help you assimilate and encourage you to get involved in cultural activities. If they look at you and realize you probably aren't what you said you were that will probably warrant further investigation.</p>
<p>As for scholarships, i don't really know. I mean i guess you could steal money if thats what you really want to do. I don't see why you don't just steal money directly from minorities themselves, it would be quicker...</p>
<p>I also dislike how I am excluded from many scholarship opprotunities due to my skin color. I think pretty much all admissions assitance should be based on economic status because that is where the hardships arise from, being black is no longer a "problem". The problem is when does lower class become middle class, and who is going to be screwed over by that. There are so many loop holes with that issue too, like tax evasion and things like that. </p>
<p>Personally I think the college admissions process should be ammended to allow all people named Tom to be accepted to HYPSMCDAW.....and that college admissions is just about as fair as it gets now, because it rewards the broadest range of people for the broadest range of talents that they may have, and therefore produces the broadest culture. I am not sure if being black is a talent, but whatever.</p>
<p>MODERATOR'S NOTE TO "The Race Card" THREAD: </p>
<p>As every long-time reader of CC should have noticed by now, this kind of thread will be merged into the massive, comprehensive FAQ thread on ethnic self-identification in college admission.</p>
<p>I am a historically and CURRENTLY underrepresented/repressed Minority, I am left handed. Just three weeks ago I went to take my ACT at a local school. Too bad for me that the only desks there were Right handed 1/2 desks, so I could not complete the test fast enough. My Grandfather was left handed, but his teachers HIT and SLAPPED his left wrist, and one even tied it to the leg of the chair behind him so he could not write with it. Do you not find that at least a little oppresive. Also, maybe my great great great grandfather wasnt a slave, but my great X 10^14 grand father was a SERF in Medieval Europe. He was litteraly bound to the land. And when he didnt pay his taxes, the tax man Killed his first born son. How about we just accept the fact that historically, everyone has had hard times and not try to use it as a justification for an unfair policy.</p>
<p>Also, i posted this somewhere else, but it is applicable here:</p>
<p>I am a historically and CURRENTLY underrepresented/repressed Minority, I am left handed. Just three weeks ago I went to take my ACT at a local school. Too bad for me that the only desks there were Right handed 1/2 desks, so I could not complete the test fast enough. My Grandfather was left handed, but his teachers HIT and SLAPPED his left wrist, and one even tied it to the leg of the chair behind him so he could not write with it. Do you not find that at least a little oppresive. Also, maybe my great great great grandfather wasnt a slave, but my great X 10^14 grand father was a SERF in Medieval Europe. He was litteraly bound to the land. And when he didnt pay his taxes, the tax man Killed his first born son. How about we just accept the fact that historically, everyone has had hard times and not try to use it as a justification for an unfair policy.</p>
<p>Many of my ancestors were also serfs (as revealed by their family names, among other clues), I think much more recently than 10^14 generations ago.</p>
<p>I can assure you, Jaydomz, that minorities are, on average, definitely NOT learning the same things as whites and most do NOT have the same access to education. Take for instance my native city of New Orleans (I'm talking about the city itself, not surrounding suburbs), where you must go to either a Catholic/parochial school or one of the two or three really good public schools in the area. All the rest of the public schools are overwhelmingly African American, and the Catholic schools and the one really amazing public school are predominately Caucasian. Why is this? Because African Americans and Hispanics, in RECENT tradition (TomHirschfeld) will send their kids to the same schools, because their families don't know about better education for their children or don't have the money to send them to one of the better private schools. Jaydomz, you cannot say that on average minorities and whites have access to the same education, because they don't. And this is because segregation did end as recently as the 60s. The effects of segregation and the subjugation of these groups for centuries will not go away by legislation passed 40 some-odd years ago. It takes time, for old habits to fade away. And this is why scholarship incentives for minorities exist, to encourage those that are still suffering the effects of racism and years of oppression to rise from that, to let them know that they are no different from the majority, and that they can have the same benefits. Over time, I feel, these programs will possibly fade out, but only when minorities have the same access to education, only when these effects of slavery and the like are completely washed away.</p>
<p>And TomHirschfeld, you cannot liken left-handedness to oppression...I, for instance, am left handed, and though it's been a nuisance sometimes to write in a world of majority right handed people, it's been nothing more than that...no one is oppressed or discriminated against because they're left handed today, and the effects of possible discrimination years ago is almost unheard of today except from stories from our grandparents and Catholic nuns. And the effects of serfdom in Medieval Europe can hardly, once again, be likened to this discussion, since you or your family or anyone else's families living today in the US suffer the effects of this practice. Many people in the US don't even know what serfdom IS. And I would hardly say that "hard times" is years of slavery and such. The Great Depression, that's hard times. Poverty amongst individual families, definitely very hard times. But the subjugation of an entire race(s) of people over centuries, to which today can be felt by all of them, regardless of economic standing in life, regardless of any actions they may have taken in their lives? Effects that won't go away for generations? That is a travesty, an abomination, which must be accounted for.</p>
<p>I look white. I am pale with brown hair and brown eyes. But I am also 1/2 cuban. Just because I have a German last name doesn't mean I feel more 'white' than 'hispanic'</p>
<p>Hmm... three locked threads.</p>
<p>Do you really want to go to a school that you got into by lying? If you feel like you need to lie about your ethnicity, you need a different approach to the whole application process. You want your school to be a good fit for the real you, not the paper version.</p>
<p>You question is absolutely repulsive to this pale-skinned blue-eyed fair-haired Latino. I'm simply shocked that the thought would even enter my mind.</p>
<p>Jack Johnson could be an African-American name...should a white kid pass himself off as black because of this?</p>
<p>And Spanish surnames are not exclusive to Latinos because the Spanish themselves are not generally considered to be Latino unless they've lived in Latin America, as my family has for around 500 years. There are many people in Louisiana with Spanish surnames who are creole or Cajun. This does not make them Hispanic.</p>
<p>Your question is downright offensive to the Latino culture.</p>
<p>Maybe I can pretend to just be white and get away from the comments about being a "white spic" or having "floated here from Cuba on a door?"</p>