<p>I’m late joining this argument - and definitely have a bias as I have a son who plays D3 baseball. </p>
<p>Having been up front about that, I have long argued that the generalization that D1>D2>D3 is simply too much of a simplification. I have not studied other sports - but in baseball, every year there are D2 teams that beat D1 teams head to head - and on a reasonably regular basis, D3 teams rear up their heads and smack down a D1 team. There are good players at every level - and all it takes is a pitcher having a shut down day and the upset occurs.</p>
<p>Having said that, am I saying that a Top 25 D3 team would win a weekend 3 game set against a Top 25 D1 team? No. But I would take whoever the D3 National Champion is against Coppin State (probably the worst D1 team in the country year after year - they were 5-39 this year - and that was a better than normal year).</p>
<p>The other comment after reading this thread is that someone who is not informed may walk away thinking that playing D3 sports is a casual commitment, not requiring much time. While D1 baseball, especially at a top team, requires an incredible time commitment, my son puts in an average of 40 hours a week, year around on baseball. Not all of that is supervised - but it is time dedicated to the sport anyway.</p>
<p>scualum said…“The other comment after reading this thread is that someone who is not informed may walk away thinking that playing D3 sports is a casual commitment, not requiring much time.”</p>
<p>scualum and all,</p>
<p>Nothing could be further from the truth from my perspective. D3 baseball is a huge time committment among the D3 schools I know in Virginia. Just like anything in life, if you want to be successful, you have to put in the hours whether you are D1, D3 or D10. There is no getting around it. I think sometimes D3 gets a bad rap because it is always compared to D1 programs, but those “in the know”…know better. When most people think D1 they think of elite D1 schools that they are familiar with, and they see on TV. There are 301 D1 baseball teams and 368 D3 baseball teams. Of those 301 D1 programs, about 30 or 10% I would consider elite with unbelievable talent and unbelievable funding & support. They get a lot of media attention.</p>
<p>We know many kids playing D3 baseball, and it is absolutely the best of both worlds for them. I have to admit that my perspective has changed alot on this topic over the last 2 years…I’m actually more pro D3 than I was 2 years ago, and I was very pro D3 then. Hind sight has a way of making things 20-20 and crystal clear. Two years ago, my son knew he had baseball talent, and I think he knew in his “heart of hearts” that going pro is probably NOT in the cards for many reasons. In terms of baseball, his best choices to play for 4 years were either an Ivy or top D3. He went Ivy, still D1 but with less games and less travel kind of like a D3. If he had gone the traditional D1 route w/56 games per season including mid week games, I seriously doubt he would still be playing baseball while carrying an engineer major. I just don’t see it. </p>
<p>So, in response to the “Fess Up” original question…we’re still hanging in there because he selected well, and knew his limatations.</p>
<p>ok, scholar-athlete has a choice. d3 at Williams or D1 at Stanford. which school do 9 out of 10 athletes choose?</p>
<p>apples to apples, from Stanford and Williams to Claremont and UCLA, you’ll find athletes who have the choice, choose the more competitive athletic offering of a D1 yet the similar academic offering.</p>
<p>@pacheight: Yep, our kid prefers great D1 school over some equally great D3 schools. Like the commercial says, there are over 40000 NCAA student- athletes and most ( including my kid) are going pro in something other than their sport, but the athletic piece is really important to her and she needs to know that she’s competing at the highest level possible. I’m not sure she’d be happy otherwise. I think the D3 thing sounds great – like a really souped up version of HS sports, which have been so fun for her. There is no right answer to this question, just a lot of great choice for these kids of ours fortunate enough to continue their sports into college.</p>
<p>pacheight said…ok, scholar-athlete has a choice. d3 at Williams or D1 at Stanford. which school do 9 out of 10 athletes choose?</p>
<p>For me, it would depend on the major…because I’m going pro in something other than sports in this hypothetical situation. In reality, I tried going pro in sports and it didn’t work out 25 years ago. If it is pre-med, or engineering type majors I’m going to Williams or similiar D3. If it anything else, hello Stanford to compete in the PAC-10.</p>
<p>My other dynamic is participation. If I’m going to sacrifice 4 years, and take a slight hit on my GPA, I want to play in the game. Typically in college there are more players on the bench or on the sideline than actually participating. I want to be playing not sitting.</p>
<p>Another possible factor to consider when deciding among colleges (d1 vs. d3, as well as among colleges in each division): the training and rehab facilities. My D, who loves being on a college sports team, has been grateful for use of the U’s Alter-G as she recovers from an injury. It’s likely that one piece of equipment won’t make or break an athlete’s career, but having access to state-of-the-art equipment could make a difference. (As an aside, I have no idea whether the Alter-G would be considered state-of-the-art).</p>
<p>This is stating (and probably re-stating) the obvious, but the student’s mindset about participation makes a difference in the decision. Is the sport a fun, leisure activity with no stress involved or desired? Or does it represent an often fun activity but a serious one too in which the student seeks to grow and develop? And by that, I mean continue on a path of challenge and improvement–not just to striving to go pro or make it to the Olympics.</p>
<p>When D was deciding between her current school and less competitive D1’s, while on official visits she met other students who had once had the same options. The athletes that chose the less competitive D1’s explained to D their thinking. Their arguments varied slightly, but more or less had the same essence: “I didn’t want to have to work hard just to make varsity. Here, I knew I would be varsity right away.” This group didn’t want to take the risk of committing to a time-consuming activity which would entail certain opportunity costs, without a relatively high guarantee of reward. The same thought process would cause a student to choose Div. 3 over Div. 1.</p>
<p>The students that chose D’s current school, all wanted to be pushed to be the best they could be in the sport. One girl said that she fully expected to be redshirted her freshamn year, but that that would be OK because that would motivate her to work hard and improve. Kids like this are more risk-tolerant.</p>
<p>And peonies has a good point about facilities and equipment.</p>
<p>The GFG, risk tolerance was part of my D’s decision making process as well. She knew she was taking a risk that, even with working very hard, she might not be able to make the top varsity group and/or score for the team in major competitions. She seemed willing to take on this risk for several reasons: she was excited about the opportunity to challenge herself, liked the coach and team dynamic, and otherwise loved the university.</p>
<p>Interesting point from peonies and TheGFG. Those who have been with this particular thread know that my bias is strongly in favor of D3 for my D’s particular situation and also I believe that it is a better option for most student-athletes (P8, TGFG … not all!). BUT, one big advantage seems to be the medical aspect. My D got injured very early in the season (a fall sport) and still is not yet fully released for all activity. I have good reason to believe that she did not receive as aggressive and thorough care as she would have in some of the D1 programs she had considered.</p>
<p>Would you all still say D3 would be a better option for your athlete if he/she could immediately be the best athlete on that D3 team as a freshman? Obviously, this is easier to determine in timed and individual sports, but I’d imagine there are some comparable measures for other sports like junior national team status, etc.</p>
<p>For D’s sport, the performances that win the Div. 3 conference meets I’ve looked at (eg. Patriot League championships) couldn’t win a high school meet in our state except for the dual meet level or small school conference level. The Div. 3 teams for which girls from my D’s high school team are competing, are quite a bit worse than their high school team–across the board. While that hs team was above average, it wasn’t exactly a powerhouse or anything. So at least in D’s sport, I struggle to see how an athlete who is actually good enough to play Div. 1 would be comfortable in a typical Div. 3 situation. It would be like an elite club level kid going back to play in the small town recreational league.</p>
<p>“In the classroom, the Patriot League’s full-member institutions, individually and collectively, consistently rank among the top Division I programs in the NCAA Graduation Rates Report. Since 1998, the Patriot League has ranked first among all Division I conferences in student-athlete graduation rates according to the NCAA Graduation Rates report. The League finished at the top spot with 96 percent of its teams reporting a graduation rate of 85 percent or higher in the most recent data. In addition, 90 Patriot League teams earned NCAA Academic Performance Program Public Recognition Awards after posting academic progress rate scores in the top 10 percent of all squads in their respective sports.” </p>
<p>^ Irrelevant, since we’re assuming comparable academics, as per pacheight’s question. Private schools like Lafayette and Lehigh would have better graduation rates anyway, for both athletes and non-athletes, than the many large state universities that are Div. 1 because they are more selective.</p>
<p>I thought you were saying the Patriot League was D3.</p>
<p>Need to think about my response to your question. It’s relevant to my D’s situation although not as clear cut because her’s is not a timed sport.</p>