<p>^^30 or so “colleges” ranked between harvard and and ucla, not 30+ athletes. public school education?:)</p>
<p>squid, the high school doesn’t brag which is a bummer for the athletes (and parents). they don’t allow signing ceremonies. although the school is well known (with coaches at top d1 schools) to crank out athletes in these sports:</p>
<p>football (quarterbacks, ends, and kickers)
baseball
soccer
rowing
water polo
rugby
tennis
golf</p>
<p>the school also has 100% matriculation to college, and 87% to 4 year schools.</p>
<p>fenn, “in general at the D3 level they are student athletes, not athlete students.”</p>
<p>this implies that at D1 level athletes, in general, are not serious students, really? so if we separate out b-ball and football which in many d1 school are semi pro programs. That leaves everything from field hockey to swimming.</p>
<p>So the athletes studying engineering and science while participating in D1 sports at Harvard or Cal or Duke, and 27 other universities are not as serious or smart or something as D3 student athletes?</p>
<p>Actually Fenway was quoting me and I am not attempting to trash D1 athletes. The point I am trying to make is that there is, IN GENERAL, a better balance between academics at the D3 level that a D1. There are of course exceptions. But from our relatively limited sample it is the norm. And it shouldn’t be surprising, the NCAA regulations specifically restrict athletics related time commitments more in D3 than in D1.</p>
<p>^^i see similar “balances” between academics and athletics of D1 and from what I know about D3 programs. The big difference is the level of athletic ability and academic rigor at many of the D1 schools. I know you say there are “exceptions”, but starting with Stanford through the D1 programs at ivy’s and then on to the D1 programs at the Duke’s and Cal’s, that’s a lot of exceptions</p>
<p>People who post on this website seem to be a self selected group who are looking for informan on how to achieve admission to the best college possible. Student athletes going DIII instead of DI is a superb way of achieving the primary educational goal. My limited experience was that there was a hunger at schools like Tufts. John Hopkins and Haverford for DI level athletes ‘trading down’.
Ive seen parents and their student athlete child chose the best athletic school typically a DI.I dont think they were people who visited these boards.</p>
<p>I would like someone to specify exactly what is meant by a better balance between athletics and academics in Div. 3. ThanksToJack says Div. 3 has less practice time than Div. 1. What else?</p>
<p>not exaclty the same thread but my son is really struggling with his college choice and it is all based on athletic level. He has numerous NAIA, DII and a few D1 offers. He is makeing the assumption that it would best best to try out a D1 school to play baseball. Overall our best experience has been visiting the private DIII schools. For some reason the connection seems to be more personal and overall experience positive. I have tried to coach him but it is his decision. He is a D1 caliber player but I believe he really wants to enjoy college. Any suggestions would help.</p>
<p>D1 caliber player v D3 caliber player. Interesting. A D3 school who wants a D1 player will offer him (her) a slot to ensure admission - especially when admission is not likely based on academics. That’s the valuable “chit” they can offer to lure the great athlete. A D1 school who wants a D1 player will offer money. I do know some players who chose the D3 because of school name (NESCAC) to take advantage of that chit . Most players who are truly D1 caliber, IMO, want to go D1 because the want the extra athletic time that a D3 can’t offer (# of games, # of practices, etc). Many players who believe they are D1 caliber, land in terrific D3 schools when the D1 offers don’t pan out, because, they discover, that is truly where they belong athletically as well. They also find, that because they were such good students, the merit aid at D3 can equal or exceed the hoped for D1 scholly money that never materialized.</p>
<p>"I would like someone to specify exactly what is meant by a better balance between athletics and academics in Div. 3. ThanksToJack says Div. 3 has less practice time than Div. 1. What else?</p>
<p>TheGFG,</p>
<p>Previously I had created a matrix on this very topic for son’s baseball decision making. Here is the way I saw it based upon his recruiting and our meetings with coaches. Your mileage may vary. </p>
<p>Level of competition - D1 is Much Greater, D3 is Less
Overall Time Commitment to Sport - D1 is More, D3 is Less
Overall Time Commitment to Academics - D1 is Less, D3 is Much Greater
Number of Games - D1 is 56 games per season, D3 is 35-45 games
Travel - D1 is much greater, D3 is much less
Funding - D1 is much greater, D3 is much less
Huurs of Coaching - D1 is greater, D3 is less
Recruited Athletes - Both. Yes, but D3 is w/o $$</p>
<p>Bottom line for son (baseball player/engineering major) is that he has more time to study in a D3 or Ivy situation, because there are less games and travel situations during the week. Ivys only travel with 22 baseball players, and he has worked his way to becoming a starting pitcher on weekends. So, eventually he would not travel during mid-week, out of conference games. This is a good thing for him. In addition, alot of his games are played during Spring Break, and a long weekend at the beginning of the season while school is out. Again, this is a very good thing. Typical D1s play two baseball games in the middle of the week , and then play conference games on the weekend. That is too much time away from the books, and missing engineering classes. This situation was a God send for us.</p>
<p>“He is makeing the assumption that it would best best to try out a D1 school to play baseball. Overall our best experience has been visiting the private DIII schools.”</p>
<p>bbigdog01 and imafan,</p>
<p>Again, I have been down this path. Son was recruited by many D1 schools (athletically) and many D3 schools (academically & athletically). I know the situation all to well. My son is currently a freshmen pitcher (engineering major) playing the lower levels of D1 (Ivy) but he playing none the less. He is the exception. There is a huge aspect to this you are missing in this D1 vs D3 discussion. You may know about it, but I’m telling you it is HUGE and it needs to enter into your son’s decision making. I’m talking about PLAYING TIME. My son played for a national championship travel team along with all of his four star national prospect teammates. Now his former high school travel teammates are at big national powerhouse schools riding the pine and carrying equipment. They go to all the practices, workouts, etc. and some have only pitched 6 innings all year or had 10 at bats all year in non-conference games. They don’t get selected for travel teams either. Everybody tells you about the playing time issue, but until you are in it do you realize the position your son is in. So, my intention is to tell you so you go in eyes wide open. Most D1 freshmen (and possibly sophomores) will sit the bench and only play in non-conference games unless you are a blue chip draftable prospect… there, the cat is out of the bag. Set expectations with your son. If he thinks he is going to start as a freshmen, I wish him the best of luck because he is going to need it. </p>
<p>Legitimate D1 prospects playing lower D1 levels or D3 is your best shot at playing as a freshmen and playing in general. I hope this helps. IMHO, I really like the way the D3s operate, and I’m partial to their priorities. Of course there are many, many other factors in selecting a college. This is one factor where the D1/D3 issue is extremely relevent. </p>
<p>Good luck and message me if you want to discuss further.</p>
<p>I think the sport and the gender both make a difference in this equation. Here’s one flip side to the academics/athletics balance issue: if you are in a timed sport or an individual sport in a Div. 1 where only the best kids travel to the big meets/competitions, and you’re not one of the stars in your first or second year of college, then you get to compete at a few local meets/competitions, and otherwise stay home, attend classes, study, and enjoy college. Due to injury, that has been our D’s experience her first year. She has competed when healthy, but hasn’t traveled far or often. We’ve noticed that her Ivy and lower level Div. 1 state school counterparts who are healthy, are competing and traveling much more. D chose the challenge of the higher competitive level, but with that comes a much greater risk she might never reach a high enough level to compete with the best. To each his own.</p>
<p>Playing time is hard to predict, especially for women’s sports. Players quit, they get injured, they get distracted by boyfriends. partying and sororities, and your kid could shine or flop her first year–it’s hard to know what to expect. Sometimes the younger girls are faster and less beat up and so they play a lot.</p>
<p>For the men’s team sports, though, it seems that at the big Div. 1’s you can pretty much forget about getting playing time your first and probably even your second year.</p>
<p>Definitely look at the player bios to get a picture of what happens to most kids at your level and position.</p>
<p>@bbigdog01,</p>
<p>I would agree with everything that imafan and fenwaysouth have said. As with academics, your son should make his college decision with regards to athletics based on ‘fit’. And if he is leaning towards DI, hopefully you’ve both done your homework in researching the coaching staff and the school’s reputation with respect to honoring their scholarship commitments and specifically whether they are known as “over-recruiters”. Many of the Top 25-50 programs in the country are known to be quite merciless when it comes to over-recruiting and having very high roster turnover rates from year-to-year.</p>
<p>At the DI level, one of the biggest things to keep in mind is that your dealing with coaches whose jobs literally depend on their players performance from year to year. In keeping up with many west coast DI baseball rosters over the past several years, it’s not uncommon to see 25-40% turnover rates in many instances on a 1 -2 year rolling basis. If after a year or two a player does not project as a significant contributor, scholarships are often not renewed when the next crop of incoming players arrives. I have seen this first hand over the past couple of years with two players from our son’s HS. One garnered a mid 30% scholarship to a national championship Pac 10 school. After his RS freshman year, his scholarship was pulled. No excuses, no apologies, just “sorry, you don’t fit in our plans for the next 4 years”. He transferred to a smaller NAIA school, played every game his 1st year and loves it. His younger brother, having verbally committed to another Pac 10 school as a junior had the school reneg on their verbal committment at the end of the summer travel ball season, after he had turned down other DI offers and effectively killing any interest from other schools as he had already ‘committed’. Bad enough to reneg on the commitment - verbal or otherewise - but especialy so given the timing of it. Since then he’s had other mid-DI offers, but given the family’s DI recruiting experiences over the past few years he is DI “adverse” and plans on enrolling in a DI JUCO and letting baseball play out from there. Not saying that all DI programs are this way, but do not lose sight of the fact that the top DI programs are big business, first & foremost. While it is impossible to know how things may workout for a given player in any program, getting some objective 3rd party input as to where your son’s athletic capabilites best project would be wise, alhtough I would imagine you’ve already covered that. Also, if he did not sign a NLI last fall, you might want to question the commitment level coming from the DI school(s).</p>
<p>Obviously there are lots of factors to consider, and it all can be quite overwhelming especially when it gets down to crunch time as it is now. Weigh all the pros & cons and go with your gut feeling as to what will provide the best college experience overall. Do remember that there is in fact life after baseball (and college). And don’t lose sight of the fact that your son is truly blessed to have so many options available to him.</p>
<p>Imafan: time has nothing to do with why an athlete chooses a shool. A top athlete wants to go to the best d1 coach and team they can get to for one reason: To be the best and to win! That’s what a competitve athlete is all about. Everything else is just excercise.</p>
<p>Fen: a lot of d1 athletes competing at hyps cal duke etc don’t need the time academically that d3 athletes have because many of them have higher iq’s. Like my d’s friend competing at princeton in a d1 sport, the girl got a 2400 and has never had an A minus. There are a lot of amazingly smart d1 athletes who don’t need the extra time given to d3 athletes</p>
<p>I’m sure the dullards at M.I.T., CalTech, Johns Hopkins, U. of Chicago, Amherst, Williams, etc. really do need the extra time.</p>
<p>P8, I believe you said in an earlier post that you knew nothing about D3. This is from NCAA.org. </p>
<p>“Colleges and universities in Division III place highest priority on the overall quality of the educational experience and on the successful completion of all students’ academic programs. They seek to establish and maintain an environment in which a student-athlete’s athletics activities are conducted as an integral part of the student-athlete’s educational experience, and in which coaches play a significant role as educators. They also seek to establish and maintain an environment that values cultural diversity and gender equity among their student-athletes and athletics staff.”</p>
<p>Here is a link to the complete document. [Division</a> III SAAC Mission and Philosophy - NCAA.org](<a href=“http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/ncaa/NCAA/Academics+and+Athletes/SAAC/Division+III/Mission+and+Philosophy.html]Division”>http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/ncaa/NCAA/Academics+and+Athletes/SAAC/Division+III/Mission+and+Philosophy.html)</p>
<p>Pach8 - Respectfully, I disagree - and I’m working with the issue at hand as d1 v d3, not one school over the other. Fen’s matrix on time balance was exactly why my S chose D1 over D3 - and he had the choice in front of him. He wanted MORE athletic time than a d3 could offer. He was heavily recruited by a NESCAC which prided itself on LESS athletic time during the fall so the kids could focus more on academics. He wanted to play MORE than 35 games in the season, and he wanted MORE time in the gym. We wanted him to have AS MUCH athletic time as he could get and still manage his grades – because we know that he benefits from MORE structure (which means his day is busy with lots of athletics and structured study time). It’s all about the fit. That’s true of colleges, and that’s true of NCAA divisions.</p>
<p>By the way Fen, BEST chart ever. Wish I had seen it earlier in my kids’ search. Clarifies so much in a very non judgemental way.</p>
<p>I don’t get that at all. You and your son selected the team and school based on time. Ok. I hope that works out for your son.</p>
<p>But the idea that d3 athletes are more academic because of time issues is rubish. I think the equivilant majors for d1 athletes at hyps are the same as d3 athletes at caltech, williams…the only difference is that the d1 athletes are more talented</p>
<p>pacheight: </p>
<p>As you know, one of the advantages of a school like Princeton (along with all the other top schools, Ivys and many named by TTJ that are D3) is that a student like your friends D is not unusual, academically speaking. I am sure that the average IQ at Caltech is significantly higher than the average IQ at <em>any</em> Div 1 school, HPY included, yet those students at Caltech work their butts off. If your friends D is taking challenging courses suitable for her high intellect, I assure you she should be working very hard and need lots of time for academics. </p>
<p>I know a similarly intelligent athlete at Princeton who is working very hard at his academics and finds it a challenge to combine the two. And his sport is not one that is known to require a large time commitment.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>What do talented players that do end up going to a d3 school for non-sport reasons do? Do they just have to resign themselves to being far superior to anyone on their team and opposing teams?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>What sport?</p>
<p>this hits a new significant high in stupid posts: “I am sure that the average IQ at Caltech is significantly higher than the average IQ at <em>any</em> Div 1 school, HPY included”</p>