Fewer colleges giving out National Merit Scholarships

Parents Forum
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<p>mom2, I never said Bama wasn’t giving scholarship to kids from Alabama. In addition, I have read many times on this board that NMF from OOS get a full ride. </p>

<p>I never said they were using tax dollars. I said they should spend that money on improving Alabama’s public educational system. </p>

<p>I am only using Alabama as an example. I also mentioned in the same post that OK, AZ, etc, should do the same as those states are also at the bottom of the barrel. </p>

<p>And while this money may come from a privately funded pot the vast majority of funding for the Uniiv of Alabama is from the taxpayers of that state. Perhaps the university should go private and rely only on their alums and tuition to find the school.</p>

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<p>Pizzagirl, a good chunk of the money for scholarships is given by athletics. Let me repeat that. The football team financially supports academic scholarships!! Not many schools can say that. One of the reasons I like Alabama.</p>

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<p>Emilybee…this is what M2CK said: </p>

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<p>and this is your response:

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<p>are you really saying that the state should keep the $1 and not take the $3 return from the school for the $1 invested? Who is denying money to education with that rationale?</p>

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<p>No, I am not saying that. I am saying that even though the “pot of money” for scholarships come from alums/private sources the majority of the money needed to operate the university comes from the taxpayers of Alabama. So simply saying that the university can do whatever it pleases with their private pot of money is a bit disingenuous as the majority of the student’s bill is being picked up by the Alabama taxpayer. You do know that it takes a lot more money than the cost of tuition to educate one student and that money is coming from the taxpayers of the state.</p>

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<p>If sports revenue is filling U of Alabama’s coffers – doesn’t it stand to reason it should be used to something that benefits U of Alabama – which is attracting top OOS students to help it in its quest to become a leading state flagship? Why should they turn it around and give it to the state to try to improve K-12 education? (Who’s to say it would really make a difference? I’m guessing any problems in Alabama education have more to do with long-term poverty in certain areas of the state, rather than education funding per se.) </p>

<p>And if private donors are giving money to U of Alabama for it to be used towards these scholarships – then that’s where that money ought to go. No one prevents those private donors from giving money to improve K-12 education in the state of Alabama if they so choose. But money towards K-12 and money towards getting high-stat college students aren’t part of the same pool.</p>

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<p>Per the posters above, the state of Alabama has plenty of public colleges and a community college system to serve the B and C students of the state of Alabama. Why <em>shouldn’t</em> the state want to try to strive towards a top state flagship – in which quest attracting high-stats students is an important first step?</p>

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<p>but the money that “the state” puts into UA is going back to the state 3 fold. If I was getting that return on my money, I would be pretty estatic.</p>

<p>It’s not like the money being invested in UA is a complete write off.</p>

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<p>“a good chunk of the money for scholarships is given by athletics. Let me repeat that. The football team financially supports academic scholarships!! Not many schools can say that. One of the reasons I like Alabama.”</p>

<p>So the football/basketball players who are basically being used by the big universities, are paying for the bright kids to get educated. And you are applauding this.</p>

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<p>*
I never said they were using tax dollars. I said they should spend that money on improving Alabama’s public educational system. *</p>

<p>???</p>

<p>You’re saying that The University of Alabama (the SCHOOL) should spend its donations on improving the state’s K-12? Really? Are you serious? lol Do you suggest that only UA do this or should the other unis do this with their donations and endowments?</p>

<p>Do you realize that donors often donate for a PURPOSE ? And in this case the purpose is to improve the flagship. </p>

<p>the majority of the funding of the Univ of Alabama* is from the taxpayers of that state.** *</p>

<p>Oh really? Care to provide any proof of that the majority of funding is from Alabama tax-payers??? (I won’t hold my breath for a fact-based response, since I already know that it isn’t true.)</p>

<p>I’ll save you the trouble… the majority of the funds comes from tuition.</p>

<p>Tuition and fees $ 282,803,052
Federal grants and contracts 40,478,261
State grants and contracts 19,661,706</p>

<p>That said, the money that the state is providing is going to the instate kids…so isn’t that what you want…money going to those B/C students???</p>

<p>*The University of Alabama has a dramatic impact on the economy of Alabama, **returning three dollars for every one dollar **invested in the University by the State. UA each year contributes $1.8 billion to the state’s economy. *</p>

<p>This isn’t enough to satisfy you? What more do you want?</p>

<p>*So he football/basketball players who are basically being used by the big universities, are paying for the bright kids to get educated. And you are applauding this. *</p>

<p>Actually, they’re funding the money-losing WOMEN’s sports …and some goes for scholarships & other school improvements…most of the scholarship money does NOT come from sports.</p>

<p>and, oh please…these same players would be exerting the same effort at other schools with losing teams that aren’t bringing in any money.</p>

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<p>What would be a better use of the revenues from sports? Look, I am hardly a major sports booster, but if they’re going to get revenues from their sports, it would seem that spending that on scholarships to attract high-stats kids is one of the most worthy things they could do with that money. Would you rather they paved the football stadium in gold?</p>

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<p>eb-
There are 130 posts on this thread. If you choose to parse a line or two from posts several pages back to support your myopic view and choose to continue to stick your fingers in your ears and chant “la-la-la” to the many MANY other posts/posters who are trying to have a civil discussion, only to be subjected to sarcasm, condescention and insults, then … well that is certainly your choice. I don’t think WE are the ones who are not reading this thread. Look again.</p>

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<p>“Per the posters above, the state of Alabama has plenty of public colleges and a community college system to serve the B and C students of the state of Alabama. Why <em>shouldn’t</em> the state want to try to strive towards a top state flagship – in which quest attracting high-stats students is an important first step?”</p>

<p>Personally, I don’t think it’s a good idea to turn a state’s flagship school into a school which the majority of it’s citizens can no longer get accepted at so they have to be shuffled off to lesser schools or community colleges to make room for OOS students so the school will look good in USNWR.</p>

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<p>eb,
Wow! Thanks for labelling me as a whiner.
I was merely questioning the principles and ramifications of the way pure merit aid is and is not used in our society.
I guess you did not notice that my tone was philosophical, not personal in the least. You do jump to a lot of conclusions about me personally later in this thread. And Oh my- you really have no correct idea where I am coming from, as I intended. But you certainly did throw in your personal experience!!
I cannot follow any of your arguments or logic, TBH. Your dogmatic statements sound so certain, but they only serve to confuse me. I would have been happy to learn something from you, but your posts do not make sense to me.
Toodles</p>

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<p>It’s not “so that the school will look in USNWR,” though that’s a side effect. It’s making the school BETTER. Do you think UVa, Michigan, etc. shouldn’t be highly selective schools and instead should admit anyone in Virginia or Michigan who graduated high school in that state and has a pulse?</p>

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<p>I’ll save you the trouble… the majority of the funds comes from tuition.</p>

<p>Tuition and fees $ 282,803,052
Federal grants and contracts 40,478,261
State grants and contracts 19,661,706</p>

<p>That said, the money that the state is providing is going to the instate kids…so isn’t that what you want…money going to those B/C students???</p>

<p>Do you have a cite for that information re tax expenditures? </p>

<p>So, are you saying that 'Bama doesn’t give full rides to OOS NMS because that is definitely not what has been said about 'Bama from people on this board. </p>

<p>So, 'Bama is attracting all these very bright kids from out of state who are paying full tuition? Good for them, then.</p>

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<p>I am a NMSF currently applying to college. My family makes about $250,000 a year- I’d say we’re upper middle-class. We qualify for almost no need-based aid, yet expenses are tight. Why? We have a lot of medical expenses, we live in an expensive area, and we went to private school for a long time. That doesn’t mean I want to be saddled with $500K in debt later on. Different families have different situations, and I studied my ass off for the PSAT so I can get that full ride at Cinci or UK. </p>

<p>Is the PSAT an arbitrary test that requires a bit of luck? Sure. But it’s the same with if your parents work for Best Buy and you’re entitled to a generous scholarship with little competition. It’s random, and you’re lucky that you’re in that situation, but it’s really no one else’s business. </p>

<p>Yeah, there are kids who miss the cutoff by one point or mis-bubble a scantron answer, but at the same time, there are students who miss significant amounts of financial aid or pay far more income tax because their income level is only a couple hundred dollars too high. </p>

<p>What is TRULY arbitrary and a complete matter of luck is giving scholarships based off of race, but I don’t see anybody whining about that. Why? Because they want to be PC. At least you have some measure of control over your PSAT score, but your race cannot be changed.</p>

<p>I think you’re making the assumption that everything has to be fair. Newsflash: it doesn’t. Life is unfair. That’s the real world, and there’s no point trying to delay the inevitable exposure to it for as long as possible, because it will catch up with you sooner or later.</p>

<p>Also, you can’t SERIOUSLY tell me that the average NMSF is not smarter than the average regular kid. Sure, there are outliers everywhere, but to them NMSF is just a missed opportunity, and there are plenty of other scholarship opportunities. After all, billions of dollars in scholarship money go unclaimed each year- why not use THAT to fund the public education system.</p>

<p>A quick note- funding education is not our problem. We spend the most amount/kid in the whole world, yet our educational rank is somewhere around 16th. Clearly, it’s not the money that’s the problem- it’s the teachers we’re hiring, the unions, the tracking systems, and the sense of entitlement that the millenial generation (which I am a part of) seems to feel.</p>

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<p>It’s not “so that the school will look in USNWR,” though that’s a side effect. It’s making the school BETTER. Do you think UVa, Michigan, etc. shouldn’t be highly selective schools and instead should admit anyone in Virginia or Michigan who graduated high school in that state and has a pulse? </p>

<p>Those schools have always been highly selective and didn’t get that way by buying OOS students to up their admissions. That is why they have been known for years and years as “the public Ivy’s.” </p>

<p>It’s precisely to get their rankings in USNWR up. Same as it is for every other college and university which gives out merit money to entice students to enroll. Syracuse alum where on this board just a few weeks ago lamenting the fact that Syracuse’s ranking will now drop because they are replacing merit aid with need based aid.</p>

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<p>agnijay- well put. no whining there, to me. my original questioning was well-answered by your story, obviously one person’s situation and interpretation, but a valid one to share.
Good luck in your pursuit.</p>

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<p>@emilybee</p>

<p>Sorry, but it seems like you’re contradicting yourself. First, you think that it should not be difficult for instate students to get into a school, and now you say that they should only accept the best. </p>

<p>What?</p>

<p>You first have to get the best to apply; that’s where the NMSFs come into the picture, and then you have to have a yield- that’s the scholarships.</p>

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<p>How should a university that hasn’t historically been selective go about becoming more selective, IYO? Especially in a state that has a relatively small pool of students to select from. </p>

<p>Or are you suggesting that once a state university has set its course – selective for Michigan/UVA, less selective (historically) for Alabama - that strategy should always remain fixed?</p>

<p>In any case, it seems a bit contradictory - if you object to Alabama turning itself into a place for the A students and shunting the B and C students to other Alabama public colleges or comm colleges – shouldn’t you object to Michigan, Virginia et al having been “public Ivies” and doing the same for years, skimming off the top talent in their home states?</p>