Fewer out of state students going to public universities

[JiffsMom]

<p>

So the motto should be "OOS First’?

No - but there should be a more realistic and equitable division of costs between in-state and OOS students. They are WAY out of whack now, relative to state funding.</p>

[nov9th]

<p>Lets see here: reducing selectivity takes more people on the list who’ve heard of XXX public school, while reducing tuition attracts a new audience. tough call. If they decrease selectivity, they’ll get more people who were initially interested in the school (does showing passion play a part at any publics?), but decreasing tuition could reel in some poorer scholars. I think they should decrease tuition, since scholars are passionate about their work wherever they are.</p>

[JiffsMom]

<p>The tuition differential issue’s impact on the in-state/OOS student body relationship at UW-Madison has evolved into a detrimental schism - the Sconnies (Wisconsin residents) vs. the Coasties (pretty much everyone else, including Illinoisans) and vice versa:</p>

<p>

"Coastie/Sconnie rancor has reached a fever pitch over the past school year. You can’t go anywhere without hearing someone complain about side ponytails, popped collars and leggings. Or hear retorts about cheese, farming and Carhartt jackets.</p>

<p>I’ve never really joined in the great debate. I figure making fun of someone’s fashion sense in Wisconsin is like criticizing someone about how to grow oranges in Alaska - we are too far away from the fashion epicenters to be up on the latest trends so it’s asinine for us to say what looks ridiculous or not. Under the microscope, we’re all kind of slouchy.</p>

<p>But instead, we complain about the fashion choices of people who chose to come to UW-Madison, when schools closer to home would have sufficed. They see the same special things in this campus that we do. Yet we harp on them all of the time, call them out on the street, complain about their supposedly toxic personalities and the use of ’Daddy’s money.’</p>

<p>It all seems very ’red scare’ to me. We may not be holding tribunals about it, but a handful of Facebook groups with fiery message boards are close enough."

[My</a> brother, the Ugg-wearing coastie - The Daily Cardinal](<a href=“http://www.dailycardinal.com/article/19076]My”>http://www.dailycardinal.com/article/19076)</p>

<p>

"We have a very divided campus at the University of Wisconsin. I’m not referring to race, political views or sexual orientation, although these divisions do matter. The most polarizing demographic divisions on campus are those of class and geography. Unfortunately for the campus social climate and the state of Wisconsin, divisions along these lines are becoming highly detrimental. You know what I’m talking about. There are the purebred native “Sconnies” who have lived in the state all of their lives. They love the Packers, tailgating, brats, cheese products and hunting season.</p>

<p>And then there are the others, or as they are not so affectionately but far more commonly referred to as, the “Coasties.” They tend to come from either coast of the U.S. or the Chicago area, but particularly from the Northeastern states and California. Their families also tend to be well-off economically (wouldn’t you have to be to afford out-of-state tuition here?)".

[The</a> Badger Herald: Opinion: Sconnies, Coasties unite!](<a href=“http://badgerherald.com/oped/2008/02/11/sconnies_coasties_un.php]The”>http://badgerherald.com/oped/2008/02/11/sconnies_coasties_un.php)</p>

[samiamy]

<p>U of Delaware is a land grant University, so its funding from the state as well as its responsibility to its residents is different than a typical State Uni. It is also privately chartered, so in reality it isn’t your typical state school. Its mission is different. </p>

<p>The Morrill Act of 1862, signed into law by Abraham Lincoln, created the land-grant college concept by giving federal land to states to build colleges with educational programs targeting regional development.</p>

[JiffsMom]

<p>Does the Morrill Act restrict land-grant universities to only state residents?</p>

[JiffsMom]

<p>Similar article:
[Universities</a> step up their out-of-state recruiting - AP News - Zimbio](<a href=“http://www.zimbio.com/AP+News/articles/9056/Universities+step+up+their+out+state+recruiting]Universities”>http://www.zimbio.com/AP+News/articles/9056/Universities+step+up+their+out+state+recruiting)</p>

<p>

"Across the country, a bidding war of sorts has developed over prospective students seeking bargains in a bad economy. While some universities have long tried to lure students across state lines with lower tuitions, such incentives are gaining popularity as the nation’s financial meltdown has withered families’ college savings and home equity to help pay soaring education costs.</p>

<p>“We’re certainly seeing an acceleration of that” push to offer tuition cuts for its out-of-state scholars, said Bob Sevier, senior vice president of Iowa-based Stamats Inc., a consultant to colleges and universities about marketing, student recruitment, fundraising and strategic planning."

</p>

[Riggo]

<p>I don’t believe reducing tuition is a viable financial option. Not only are you decreasing tuition for the incoming freshman class, but the other roughly 75% of the students who are a captive audience and have less options. Certainly, such cuts will exacerbate budget shortfalls.</p>

<p>On the other hand, reducing selectivity will lead to more admits, which will lead to more OOS…and the Publics desperately need those OOS tuition dollars.</p>

<p>It used to be harder to get in OOS, but that trend has reversed overnight as students are staying home. Because of the dynamics of supply and demand, Selectivity is going to take a hit. The colleges won’t admit this as it is political suicide. Unfortunately, there isn’t any good in-state versus OOS admissions data, so this will be one of those dirty little secrets.</p>

[northeastmom]

<p>Jiffsmom, thanks for posting that article.</p>

<p>I don’t think it is only a matter of students staying instate. I happen to think that depending upon EFC and stats, some students are choosing a private college that is generous with merit aid, has a lower sticker price and/or is generous with financial aid. I can find private schools that would be less expensive to send my son to than OOS tuition at UCONN, UVM, Penn State, etc. Even now that the SUNYs have raised their OOS tuition, I think that I can find private schools, and certainly instate schools that will not cost me more money than a SUNY.</p>

[csleslie51]

<p>Oregon wants 'em. Colleges eye non-resident students. “The seven public schools in the Oregon University System will continue recruiting more out-of-state and international students as they address steep — 15 percent — budget cuts over the next two years. Officials say the ranks of non-resident students, up 14 percent since 2001, will continue to grow.
All told, the universities’ out-of-state student counts jumped from 19.4 percent of all enrollees in fall 2007 to 21.4 percent in fall 2008.” <a href=“http://portland.bizjournals.com/portland/stories/2009/05/25/story6.html?b=1243224000^1832854”>http://portland.bizjournals.com/portland/stories/2009/05/25/story6.html?b=1243224000^1832854&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

[barrons]

<p>Oregon schools–much less well funded than the UC schools take a 15% cut without much crying. Meanwhile the head of UC is saying a 10% cut will have devastating impact on the UC. No wonder California is broke.</p>

[FindAPlace]

<p>

Oregon schools–much less well funded than the UC schools take a 15% cut without much crying. Meanwhile the head of UC is saying a 10% cut will have devastating impact on the UC.

</p>

<p>If you have an idea of what it takes to create a world class university like Berkeley, you’d understand why they are howling. K-12 funding is also being brutalized. I read an article that mentioned exactly what I was thinking, which is in CA they are now starting to eat the seed corn.</p>

<p>We had a BBQ with friends who are native to CA and Stanford grads. They asked us, WA State natives, if we were considering the UW-Seattle (our alma mater) for our S, a junior. We said no, that it didn’t make sense to pay OOS for a school that comes in around the middle tier of UCs. The longer this insanity goes on, the more we may need to re-think our position. (Thankfully, S has the possibiity of a tution free education if he gets accepted to USC, since H is on faculty there.)</p>

[rockvillemom]

<p>I agree with Northeastmom. Our experience this year was that with an EFC of about $16,000, my son received virtually no fin aid from University of Michigan. He was very disappointed when we had to take it out of consideration as we could not afford the $44,000 OOS price tag. On the other hand, he received an extremely generous package of grant/scholarship monies from Wake Forest, making this expensive private school our least cost option. I think you have to throw away preconceived notions about public schools costing less than private schools and keep an open mind - at least until you receive the finanial aid award.</p>

[drizzit]

<p>Financial aid is a crapshoot to me. I have a son at one of those Oregon Publics with an EFC of about 13K and they met full need with a very nice grant on top of his merit scholarhsip… His package was very comparable to his twin brothers at a top 20 private that meets 100% of need.</p>

<p>Point being you never know until you apply.</p>

<p>CU boulder though was a classic example of a waste of time for OOS students to apply to who can’t pay full freight. The financial aid package for both sons together was 60K a year in parent loans and CU isn’t worth that.</p>

[northeastmom]

<p>drizzit, are you instate for Oregon, and is your son a within the top 20% for that school based on admission stats?</p>

<p>rockvillemom, you just gave the perfect example of what I am talking about, and Wake Forest is an excellent school!</p>

<p>The OOS price at so many public Us (44k for UMichigan, wow, I had no idea it was so expensive. I think of OOS public schools that cost 28k+ to be expensive, I must be so removed from reality) have priced themselves so that if one has an EFC as high as 30k, one might be better off with a private school that will give merit aid, or meet most of financial need, than an OOS school that will offer nothing. I guess one would need an EFC of 46k or more for U of Michigan to make financial sense, unless one were offered merit aid.</p>

[drizzit]

<p>northeast mom we are out of state to the Oregon School, I live in Montana. Son was a commended NM student with a 32 ACT. So a very high student but not at the very top. My other son at the top 20 private was also a 32 ACT but made the NMF list. The school is Oregon State U and the private is USC. Both sons are electrical/computer engineering majors. OSU increased his grant for next year more than OOS tuition went up. That was a happy news day in my house :)</p>

<p>I am not sure if he was in the top 20% or not since I did not check that but I suspect he was or was very close to that.</p>

[akck]

<p>Our S decided to attend a private school in Oregon. We figure the cost to us will be $8-10,000 more than if he attended an in state public university here. However, because of the financial aid package the private university gave him, we figured additional OOS costs would have been about $20,000 more in comparison, because most of the aid would have been in loans. So private over OOS was the way to go for us.</p>

[barrons]

<p>By most measures outside US News UW Seattle is right at the same level as UCLA and UCSD. It is far better than any mid-level UC school. And they too are dealing with around a 15% cut in state support without going to the wailing wall. Over the prior ten years the UC system has received among the highest state funding increases in the US. It can handle a small 10% cut without impacting quality. UMJ has done it, UW, and UVa and many others too.</p>

<p>What is it about being broke you don’t understand?</p>

[FindAPlace]

<p>Barrons:</p>

<p>By mid-level, I did indeed mean UCSD. As for the med school, I’d be surprised if the UW-Seattle didn’t outrank all the UCs.</p>

<p>I understand being broke in the public finance sense all too well. My MPA is in publc finance and I’ve been working for CA cities in that field since 1986, cities that have balanced their own budgets in spite of constant raids from the state. </p>

<p>My H is a professor at USC. We know lots of professors in the UC system and right about now, I don’t know of many who’d seriously consider the UC system for their own sons and daughters without a good hard analysis. Now, if that’s not a sad state of affairs, I’m not sure what is. There are people who ARE in the know, the insiders. It’s their world.</p>

[barrons]

<p>UCSD is hardly mid level. It might be less well known but those who know know. It’s in the UC Top 3 which means not mid level. </p>

<p>As to the aversion of some UC profs to their own system–familiarity often breeds contempt. I’m sure there are some Harvard profs who don’t think H is all that too. </p>

<p>The fact remains that even after that BIG 10% cut the UC System is still better funded than most other state schools in the US or even the world. 10% will barely be noticed after all the other adjustments are made. Research money is growing which means more overhead money to allocate around. Tuition will go up significantly. I’ll bet right now that the total budget for UCLA and UCB will GO UP in the next year year over year.</p>

[PA_Mom]

<p>The Oregon schools are planning to increase tuition by a good percentage with the budget cuts so they are passing the pain down to us. My daughter’s OOS tuition is estimated to rise by about $3600 next year…more than I had budgeted for sure! The in-state tuition is estimated to go up 22% I believe. They are still a bargain compared to many schools, but don’t think that the budget cuts were painless.</p>