Economic crunch means public schools are accepting more OOS students

<p>"Many of the nation's top public universities accepted nonresident students in greater numbers this year, hoping to increase -- or at least sustain -- a pool of incoming freshmen who pay two or three times the tuition charged to locals. At some schools, the push for nonresidents has made it harder for residents to get in.</p>

<p>Public universities with the cache to attract out-of-state students have courted them for decades. But universities are looking harder at nonresident students and their tuition dollars during the recession as other revenue sources dwindle. State funding has eroded by 10 percent in Maryland and by 20 percent or more in Virginia since the start of the downturn, accelerating a long-term nationwide decline in government support for higher education. Out-of-state students generally pay the full cost of their education, effectively subsidizing their in-state classmates.</p>

<p>Since pre-recession 2007, the share of nonresident students in the freshman class has grown considerably at several flagship universities: from 34 to 37 percent at William and Mary; from 19 to 25 percent at the University of Washington; from 43 to 49 percent at the University of Iowa; and from 35 to 44 percent at Penn State.</p>

<p>"It's a matter of fiscal realities," said Mark Emmert, president of the University of Washington. "Public universities survive on a combination of tuition revenue and state financial support. If one goes down, the other has to go up if you want to maintain your capacity."</p>

<p>[url=<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/13/AR2009111301940.html?hpid=topnews%5Dwashingtonpost.com%5B/url"&gt;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/13/AR2009111301940.html?hpid=topnews]washingtonpost.com[/url&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p>

<p>Virginia is cutting state support for its schools left and right. It’s terrible. Of course they still complain when instate tuition goes up. You can only raise OOS tuition so far before people stop coming.</p>

<p>OOS kids are still falling over themselves to get into UVa and W&M.</p>

<p>There are also several top Public LACs.</p>

<p>SUNY Geneseo in New York is one of them. The school attracts top students (Avg. SAT 1340, GPA 94), professors are excellent, the campus is beautiful with strong acadmic programs. </p>

<p>Some links you might be interested in:</p>

<p>COPLAC - Council of Public Liberal Arts Colleges
[COPLAC</a> | Council of Public Liberal Arts Colleges](<a href=“http://www.coplac.org/]COPLAC”>http://www.coplac.org/)</p>

<p>Geneseo is one of 80 schools strongly committed to undergraduate education
[SUNY</a> Geneseo](<a href=“News Center | SUNY Geneseo”>News Center | SUNY Geneseo)</p>

<p>Geneseo vs. Private (NYU) - Student’s Experience
[Jean</a> Chatzky blog :: The Difference :: Personal finance, debt, and money advice](<a href=“http://www.jeanchatzky.com/uncategorized/guest-post-giving-a-suny-school-the-old-college-try/]Jean”>http://www.jeanchatzky.com/uncategorized/guest-post-giving-a-suny-school-the-old-college-try/)</p>

<p>International Student’s current experience at Geneseo
[From</a> beyond the borders - Knights’ Life](<a href=“http://media.www.thelamron.com/media/storage/paper1150/news/2009/10/22/KnightsLife/From-Beyond.The.Borders-3811040.shtml]From”>http://media.www.thelamron.com/media/storage/paper1150/news/2009/10/22/KnightsLife/From-Beyond.The.Borders-3811040.shtml)</p>

<p>SUNY Geneseo featured on the “Today Show”
[Today</a> Show Video Player](<a href=“http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/33043592#33043592]Today”>http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/33043592#33043592)</p>

<p>Interesting to me that Penn State reportedly had increased to 44% out of state. This seems pretty high to me.</p>

<p>When we went up there last spring for an accepted students reception at Schreyer, D was concerned that so few students (only around 20%) were from out of state. I would guess that part of this is because Schreyer admission does not come with significant merit aid for the overwhelming majority of its students, and OOS students who qualify for Schreyer can generally do better elsewhere. </p>

<p>UPitt Honors College is much more generous with merit aid and seems to attract a greater number of OOS students to its honors college because of this, but does not have many of the perks given out to Schreyer students.</p>

<p>I think the article’s premise is correct that the schools are looking to increase tuition in a tough economic period. However, there is a wide variance about the amount of revenue that state universities collect from their OOS populations. As a result, schools have different levels of flexibility in order to change their admissions policies. I think going much beyond 35% for a large state is going to be politically difficult. I also believe that there is a point where the cost is just too darn high for an OOS student. </p>

<p>Here are some comparisons of state universities ranked in the USNWR Top 75:</p>

<p>Sticker Price Rev from OOS students , State University ( % OOS )</p>

<p>$311,421,117 , U MICHIGAN ( 35% )
$311,131,391 , PURDUE ( 39% )
$281,294,294 , INDIANA U ( 34% )
$246,409,162 , PENN STATE ( 25% )
$243,122,831 , U DELAWARE ( 64% )
$219,136,800 , U WISCONSIN ( 32% )
$171,024,713 , U IOWA ( 37% )
$162,050,463 , VIRGINIA TECH ( 32% )
$152,179,126 , U MARYLAND ( 24% )
$135,710,109 , U VIRGINIA ( 28% )
$131,560,232 , U MINNESOTA ( 26% )
$106,660,716 , CLEMSON ( 29% )
$98,542,723 , OHIO STATE ( 11% )
$98,272,742 , U CONNECTICUT ( 23% )
$90,075,690 , GEORGIA TECH ( 27% )
$85,958,004 , U WASHINGTON ( 12% )
$82,179,759 , MICHIGAN ST ( 8% )
$70,663,697 , U PITTSBURGH ( 17% )
$68,278,046 , U GEORGIA ( 12% )
$67,821,692 , U N CAROLINA ( 17% )
$57,268,224 , WILLIAM & MARY ( 32% )
$52,855,833 , UC BERKELEY ( 7% )
$48,550,575 , U ILLINOIS ( 6% )
$47,600,808 , UCLA ( 6% )
$45,764,136 , U TEXAS ( 4% )
$44,184,144 , RUTGERS ( 7% )
$32,912,983 , U FLORIDA ( 4% )
$26,385,269 , TEXAS A&M ( 3% )
$23,217,512 , UC S BARBARA ( 4% )
$20,819,467 , UC SAN DIEGO ( 3% )
$19,110,753 , UC IRVINE ( 3% )
$15,195,989 , UC DAVIS ( 2% )
$14,329,364 , UC S CRUZ ( 3% )</p>

<p>OOS Tuition & Fees , State University </p>

<p>$34,230 , U MICHIGAN<br>
$31,870 , U VIRGINIA<br>
$31,559 , UC S CRUZ<br>
$31,385 , UC DAVIS<br>
$30,819 , UC SAN DIEGO<br>
$30,724 , UC S BARBARA<br>
$30,600 , U TEXAS<br>
$30,592 , WILLIAM & MARY<br>
$30,022 , UC BERKELEY<br>
$29,897 , UCLA<br>
$28,796 , UC IRVINE<br>
$28,270 , MICHIGAN ST<br>
$26,160 , INDIANA U<br>
$25,946 , PENN STATE<br>
$25,756 , U ILLINOIS<br>
$25,716 , GEORGIA TECH<br>
$25,486 , U CONNECTICUT<br>
$25,118 , PURDUE<br>
$24,998 , CLEMSON<br>
$24,367 , U WASHINGTON<br>
$23,990 , U MARYLAND<br>
$23,852 , U PITTSBURGH<br>
$23,744 , U FLORIDA<br>
$23,186 , U DELAWARE<br>
$22,886 , TEXAS A&M<br>
$22,518 , RUTGERS<br>
$22,342 , U GEORGIA<br>
$22,294 , U N CAROLINA<br>
$22,278 , OHIO STATE<br>
$22,270 , U WISCONSIN<br>
$22,198 , U IOWA<br>
$21,488 , VIRGINIA TECH<br>
$15,542 , U MINNESOTA</p>

<p>Doesn’t anyone think it ironic that the “economic crunch” is creating a situation in which families are willing to pay a lot more for OOS publics? My point is that there are SILL a lot of very wealthy families out there, despite the “economic crunch.”</p>

<p>blue, I agree. There are plenty of upper middle class families, or wealthy but not so super wealthy that the price tag is meaningless, that would rather pay in the low 30s for an OOS public, than 50,000 for a private U.</p>

<p>The OOS publics are too pricey for our middle class family!</p>

<p>This is an interesting article, but it could use some more statistics. I’d be interested in how much the OOS SAT scores have changed in the last year or two.</p>

<p>A good point bird rock.</p>

<p>As a guess, I’d say the OOS SAT scores are down at more than a few of the schools, but the the overall statistics are up or unchanged since the in-state students who were displaced probably had lower scores, or at least no better than the OOS student that replaced them.</p>

<p>I don’t know about other states, but Virginia can’t take any more OOS students. They have a state mandate that 2/3 of their classes must be from instate; leaving that 1/3 from OOS to be uber-competitive.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>If the state keeps cutting funding, that number is going to go away soon.</p>

<p>W&M is operating with 13% of its budget from the state, and UVA is at 8%.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Absolutely! I figure soon we will all be in a shell game where everyone will pay bigger bucks to send their child to an OOS college because there aren’t enough spots in their in-state public for in-state kids, because in-state kids don’t bring in enough revenue. </p>

<p>And shame on the WaPo copy editors:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I know my Alma Mater Ga Tech also increased OOS/international percentage (from almost 27% list from the list above to 40% in this past fall). They did it by increasing the number of full paid international students from 6% to almost 13%. I know they reject a lot more instate candidates than even before. Some kids got rejected with 2050 SAT score, according to ajc.</p>

<p>Of course, Ga Tech is somewhat unique within public university. It is very popular name among Asian countries due to its reputation in engineering and technology. </p>

<p>Now to think about it. If a student is very good candidate (1250 to 1350 SAT) but not super duper candidate and come from middle or upper middle class family, his/her choice is more limited compared even to five or ten years ago due to outrageous of OOS tuition. If he/she lives in a state with very good public school (North Carolina, California and Virginia), those state schools are going to much more difficult to get in. If he/she live in a state that has average public university (Maine), he/she stuck with that state school.</p>

<p>Well, here’s hoping that GA Tech and Penn State like OOS students!!! DS is applying to all OOS schools (all public).</p>

<p>For schools that are selective with OOS applicants, it must be quite tempting to raise the OOS tuition charges. For example if Penn State moved to 30,000 per year, that would be an additional 38.5 million in revenue without a dime more in costs.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>If I had to guess many of these families do not qualify for FA, and a cost of 30-35,000 is more attractive than $50,000+ options. The other possibility is that their child has high enough stats to qualify for merit aid, or even instate tuition. Additionally, if you live in NJ and need to pay full freight, for example, going OOS (ie: NC) for college is not going to make too large of a difference in cost for some families.</p>

<p>"DS is applying to all OOS schools (all public). "</p>

<p>My DS is doing the same thing. We have looked carefully at gpa and SAT ranges, OOS%, and even male/female ratio when determining which schools may accept him with his less than fabulous stats. He has applied to 14 schools to hedge his bets, and has been accepted to one so far. Applied to 2 instate (CA) state schools, but those are absolutely a last resort, as the CSU system is such a mess right now, and his major (history) is impacted virtually everywhere.</p>

<p>I agree that its an inevitable thing that publics will look to OOS students to increase revenue, and it will be an interesting demographic shift as students leave their home states to go to college in other places, where ten years ago they would have stayed instate.</p>

<p>We are not asking for any FA, will pay full freight where ever he attends. Would we rather pay in-state tuition for him, a student who will never be a high achiever? Yes. Would we want him to miss out on a 4 year college education, with all that goes along with the experience? No. Its a terrible situation, especially for those who were counting on instate tuition and are now faced with possibly having to pay 2-3 times more for a state university education.</p>

<p>

The ratio has to stay the same in Virginia, but the overall number of students can increase.</p>

<p>There was more discussion of this article in the UVa forum: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-virginia/810365-wash-post-piece-increasing-oos-numbers.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-virginia/810365-wash-post-piece-increasing-oos-numbers.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>

</p>

<p>Exactly! And thus my comment about irony since there are still plenty of wealthy families willing to pay full freight for college, even during this “economic crunch.”</p>

<p>But following DeanJ’s post, I will note Virginia is one of the few publics that offers good need-based aid to OOS students.</p>