Figuring out matches when scores are lobsided

<p>Hi all! D2 is a junior and already has a well thought out list of 11 schools. Very strong transcript with 9APs by the end of senior year. Now that we have both ACT & SAT scores, I'm trying to figure out where she fits. She is a humanities kid all the way and wants to major in English. Her testing is consistently 99%+ in CR, English & Reading and 84% in math. This is not a problem for 2/3 of the schools on her list as she's at or above the 75% for all schools in CR and at or above the 75% in math for 9 schools. But for those couple of reachy schools her math score isn't even at the 25%. </p>

<p>I think with some hardcore prep she could maybe bring up the math score a tiny bit, but she's consistently tested in the mid 80th% since forever. I've often heard on CC that if you're applying to a highly ranked engineering/science program that the CR/W scores don't matter as much. Does the opposite apply when you're looking at highly ranked humanities programs? Is she shut out of top 30 schools if she doesn't improve on math?</p>

<p>And believe me I understand that this is a first world problem ;) I just want to make sure she understands the realities of the admissions chances now so she can adjust the list if she needs to.</p>

<p>LOL. Younger son’s scores were 790CR/690M, 7APs. Top 6% of class, but B+ average in his academic courses (mostly brought down by Latin). I think the concept of match is overrated. He found a safety he loved and did apply to schools with a range of selectivity. His sweet spot seemed to be schools that were accepting about 20-25% of the applicants. That was Chicago (EA not regular!), Vassar (where being male no doubt helped) and Tufts. Rejected from the two Ivies he applied to, no surprise there. He spent a lot of time on his application on optional essays and the Vassar option to send something artistic in. His math score was at or near the 25th percentile at all the schools that accepted him except his safety where it was pretty solid. </p>

<p>I think his grades probably were more of a problem than his math score, but there’s no way to know of course. At any rate I think you just have to be a bit more cautious. What sort of math does she take in school? I don’t think it hurt that my son was taking Calc BC, and he had a really fabulous letter of recommendation from his pre-calc teacher who basically said even though his math grades weren’t tops, he really understood math.</p>

<p>“Is she shut out of top 30 schools if she doesn’t improve on math?”</p>

<p>No, not necessarily. There’s no question that being below the 25th %ile at a given school hurts your odds at that school. But that won’t be the end of the analysis. If she is taking a rigorous math/science curriculum and doing well in it, that should provide a counterweight to their concerns.</p>

<p>My son had the opposite problem, near perfect math, average cr, abominable writing. However he always did well in english/history classes, though he didn’t do ap’s. His strengths were clearly math/science and he doubled up on one or the other every year in hs. No one could ever give me a clear answer on how to pick a “fit”. </p>

<p>I chose safeties based on the cr score. He ended up at a school where he was above the 75% for math, below the 25% for cr. </p>

<p>I don’t think any admissions person is shocked that someone is strong in one and not another.</p>

<p>My daughter was also lop-sided and I had similar questions last year. Her particulars won’t be helpful for you because she chose to pursue theater programs and removed all the academically reachy schools from her list to balance the reachiness of auditioned programs but these old threads might be helpful. You are definitely not alone! Good luck!</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1116231-where-did-your-academically-lopsided-s-d-get.html?highlight=lopsided[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1116231-where-did-your-academically-lopsided-s-d-get.html?highlight=lopsided&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/949857-parent-thread-mismatched-lopsided-skewed-students.html?highlight=lopsided[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/949857-parent-thread-mismatched-lopsided-skewed-students.html?highlight=lopsided&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1099344-academically-lopsided-child.html?highlight=lopsided[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1099344-academically-lopsided-child.html?highlight=lopsided&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/553940-b-student-parents-thread.html?highlight=lopsided[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/553940-b-student-parents-thread.html?highlight=lopsided&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Just some food for thought, the math is the easiest score to improve. Suggestions - some flash cards to help her with speed, maybe practice a section every few days (not the complete math section, just one of the 25-30 minute sections) to keep her sharp.</p>

<p>Thanks all. Up until now her transcript has all A’s and she’s taken honors math from 7th grade through the present. She’s in precalc/trig and will take AP Stat next year, no interest in Calc. And all honors science classes with AP Bio next year. So certainly no slouch, just not a superstar in the STEM areas.</p>

<p>Mathmom & eyemamom: Glad to hear the particulars in your admissions experiences. </p>

<p>Youdon’tsay had some excellent math study tips on another thread. HighlandMom: your tips sound helpful as well. My gut is to let things lie until the summer & see what her final list looks like (I’m anticipating some epiphanies during the 6 college visits we have lined up in the next 5 weeks) and if her list still includes the tippy top choices then have her get to know & love the math sections leading up to fall testing. </p>

<p>I’m kind of p.o’d at myself for even worrying about this. But I am very thankful for CC where I can vent my spleen & not let D know that I even blinked an eye.</p>

<p>RobD – if your daughter decides she wants to try to improve her math score, here is a website where she can practice SAT-style math problems for free: perfect800 dot com</p>

<p>Rob: doesn’t the ACT composite kinda hide the math though? most schools (not all) use the composite, not the individual sections for admissions…</p>

<p>You didn’t mention what the ACT composite is relative to the 25%-75%…</p>

<p>RobD, S2 felt the SAT Question of the Day helped him understand the various types of questions (they went straight to his email – he signed up for it on his own initiative and did them every day – shocked the heck out of me!).</p>

<p>He had a 52 PSAT Math as a freshman, 65 for junior PSAT, and pulled SAT Math and Level II to 750+ by spring of junior year. No one was more surprised than he was.</p>

<p>We didn’t spend a lot of time worrying about individual section scores when S2 made his list. Paid attention to the overall scores and percentiles. His personal goal was to break 700 on math. The list didn’t change when his score improved.</p>

<p>S2 practiced math sections and DH sat with him and analyzed the problems afterwards (both the ones he got right as well as the ones he missed). She is taking the math class right now that will help her improve her score. Calc won’t increase her score. Taking AP Stat instead of Calc senior year is not going to be a dealbreaker at most schools. (And if it is, would she want to be there, anyway?)</p>

<p>My niece is a senior with a 33 ACT with a 29 math and 35-36 English/Reading scores, and a 2100 with sub-700 math. She has done just fine so far. :)</p>

<p>My kids were opposites but have ended up more or less the same. S scored exactly the same in Cr. Reading and Math - no real strength but no real weakness either and did not take it again. His grades and class rank were excellent. He is enjoying Whitman now. </p>

<p>D scored 180 points higher in Cr. Reading than Math on the SAT for a scores slightly higher overall than her brother’s. Her second try was nearly identical. Her lopsidedness carried over into grades, so her GPA and class rank were not as good. She has been admitted to Sewanee, which is probably in the same ballpark as Whitman in terms of academic rigor and reputation, though the student body appears to have lower scores / grades. </p>

<p>S applied EDII to Whitman, and did not apply to any “reaches.” D applied EA to Sewanee, but also to a couple of reach schools which we expect her to be rejected from in April. She loves Swanee, and they gave her a little bit of merit money, so there won’t be much disappointment if her lopsidedness keeps her out of her reach schools - they also cost much more so I won’t be disappointed either. Whitman and Sewanee match their sports as well.</p>

<p>Finding solid match schools academically and athletically and getting in early saved a lot of anxiety in the college process for us. Maybe they could have done better in terms of more highly ranked schools, but it was not worth the hassle for us.</p>

<p>ROB - DS just got admitted to Macalester with a reading score a bit below 25%. So, yes, your dd can get admitted. But she needs to really shine in other areas.</p>

<p>DS’s ECs are very unique (and impressive). He also writes a great essay and gives a great interview. I also think that these small LACs really can tell whether someone is going to be a great fit and add to their community.</p>

<p>One thing to consider - submit AP math scores, if they are relatively better than SAT/ACT scores. That’s what we did.</p>

<p>If she is a junior this year, she will likely do better in math next year, as she will have another year of math and maturity under her belt.</p>

<p>Her ACT composite falls into the 25-75% for all of her reachiest schools, closer to 50-75% for all but one (which quite frankly probably won’t make her final cut.) I guess I was thinking that even with the composite being in range, that an adcom would look at the split and say hmmm. I am so over-thinking things now…</p>

<p>My son had lopsided scores too (800 M/630 CR) and was also a strong student with 13 AP classes in HS and a rank in the top 3% of his class. He was accepted at Emory ED this past December.</p>

<p>I also liked the SAT Question of the Day. I had my kids sign up. Not sure if they practiced with it much, but I enjoyed getting them myself. If they had been game, it would have been fun dinnertime discussion.</p>

<p>Rob: if you look at the common data sets of the schools in question, you can get an idea if they look at only the ACT composites or if they break it out…</p>

<p>If they don’t break it out for the CDS, it’s probably the composite that counts…</p>

<p>rodney - never knew that! Thanks for the info. Maybe by the fourth kid, I’ll have this stuff figured out. ;)</p>

<p>My S also had lop-sided scores… 790CR 680 M… he applied to a wide range of schools and so far has been admitted to 4 schools… waiting to hear from around 14 more. LOL!! Merit awards at all he has been admitted to so far, and even a couple full COA. So, not to worry, I think this is fairly common. We focused on a BIG range of schools because of his high SAT’s and lower GPA… he also had excellent EC’s.</p>

<p>^^not a hard and fast rule, mind you, but when we were going through the process, we did ask and that held true…</p>

<p>Response to lisabees…cross posted with 5boys (who I bet is doing the “happy dance” tonight!!congrats!)</p>

<p>D was just admitted ED to NYU with a 610 in math (720 reading & 680 writing). She also dropped math junior year and had a 78 in algebra 2/ trig as a soph. Her act math was 23 with a 35 in english. </p>

<p>However, she is entering as a studio art major. 50% of her admission was based on her portfolio.</p>

<p>She was also admitted to suny new paltz and was told by admissions reps from both Muhlenburg and Goucher that they were disappointed she would not be attending. Real positive feedback after an interview at Skidmore too.</p>

<p>My advice would be to really exentuate her strengths. Do what you can to show her talent as a potential English major. After reading my d’s app it was clear they would be getting an artistic, theatrical and musical kid who used those skills in her ec’s and had many leadership roles. If they were looking for the "math " kid they would have to go on to the next applicant.</p>