<p>We are in the Feb-Mar holding period (as many of you are) waiting for that April 1 deadline and my S and I have a question. We have been discussing the many ways my S's decision could go and what would be the "best choice". We had a hard time coming up with a list of colleges to apply to for a few reasons: </p>
<p>1) his interest in a kind of obscure field that you typically only see at a big state university </p>
<p>2) he is a NMF and REALLY wants a very intellectual environment. His hs is very sports/preppy and he doesn't want that if at all possible.</p>
<p>3) our need for merit money</p>
<p>4) very much wants to get to know his profs and be involved in research</p>
<p>We are now kind of preparing ourselves for what could happen. He applied to UChicago and got in EA, is in at UMich (honors and waiting for merit money info which could come any day). We are waiting to hear from WashU, Rice, McGill and Harvard (his interest in the field is because of a prof here who has written him a letter of recommendation). As you can see in our choices we veered off the path a few times.</p>
<p>There is no perfect match at any of these schools. Each has a problem with it based on our criterion even if all come through with merit money (except Harvard of course). Our best guesses: The best fit for the major is UMich/Harvard, worst is Rice. Most affordable with or without merit money is probably UMich/Rice/McGill worst is Harvard. Best intellectual fit is Chicago/Harvard (S thinks Harvard is better fit here than mom), worst is Umich. Best research opps is probably Rice/Chicago/WashU worst is McGill. Best chance get to know profs is Chicago/Rice. See, it's complicated. We emailed profs in the field across the country and they suggested he worry about a broad strong science focus in undergrad and go on in grad school in the major field. He is however VERY passionate about the topic and would love to be able to study/do research in it next year.</p>
<p>We think we have narrowed down to "intellectual fit" being the most important as he is in a situation right now in post secondary where he is one of the top in the class each quarter (as a hs senior) and it is driving him crazy. He really wants to be challenged in college. </p>
<p>What do you all think you would be putting the most emphasis on? </p>
<p>Any thoughts would be appreciated. It's funny was we wait for word, we obsess all over again about where he applied. The waiting is not easy.</p>
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<p>What do you all think you would be putting the most emphasis on?<<</p>
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<p>Take a long weekend family vacation, you can even do it at home, do NOT talk about college, try to watch some favorite movies or do a favorite sport/activity. Eat lots of ice cream, play cards, go hiking, visit a city, how about spring training?</p>
<p>I'm very serious, 2 of the most tense times we have ever had in our family were most of the junior year, especially spring, and last Nov as the whole family waited for the ED decision - it is hard, because the whole thing just hangs over your/his head, but for his sake (remember, he will be GONE soon), let it go.</p>
<p>And, I agree with the profs, don't pick based on major, he needs broad exposure.</p>
<p>Ultimately, you may have to let him go with the "gut" feeling on this. It may require revisits to his top 2 or 3 if at all possible. Obviously, he will get an excellent education at any of these schools. And, my guess is, he will be happy at any of them. Looking at his priorities and your list, I would pick Chicago. But what makes sense on paper may not always be the right choice. My husband had narrowed down his grad school choices to 2 schools, both very different. On paper, one seemed to make more sense than the other. He is a very logical thinker, but the school that made the most logical sense did not feel right to him and he felt very strongly pulled to the other. So he chose that one and never had any regrets. Don't neglect your sons intuition about all of this.</p>
<p>I'm wondering why you think that Mich would be a bad fit intellectually. Since he is in honors, he would be living and taking classes with kids at a very high intellectual level. (Their average SAT is probably at least equal to all the programs you listed with the exception maybe of Harvard.) Also, in honors the classes are generally small, with much chance for contact with professors. It's true that there is a bigtime sports atmosphere, but not by any means do all students participate; it's a big enough place to find huge numbers of people who will be anywheres besides the stadium on a fall Saturday. </p>
<p>I don't say all this to say this is where he should go, but to say that if all the other factors (money, specific major, etc) point that way, I wouldn't assume that intellectual fit was going to be a problem.</p>
<p>DS's gut told him to consider "location, location, location" along with the living environment. All of his schools met his academic needs. He felt that the final decision needed to be based on the living situation as he was going to spend FOUR years living there. He had already determined that the educational programs would meet his needs...did that BEFORE he applied anywhere. He decided that Boston was where he needed to be....that narrowed it down to his top two choices anyway. He is VERY happy with his choice.</p>
<p>Good luck with your decision, so many good choices. I just want to note that McGill doesn't sound like it belongs in this group in many ways. Very large classes, not particularly intellectual and not a place know for student/prof relationships.</p>
<p>The consideration with umich is for many in-state students, it is very easy to get accepted into, and this lowers the "intellectual feel". There is a considerable difference between this intellectual feel and good academics.</p>
<p>Agree with Garland. The opportunity to work directly with profs and get involved in research will happen faster through an Honors College w/in a major uni or at an LAC before it will happen at Harvard.</p>
<p>Agree with others who've said chill out. This time of a kid's life is for exploration. Your S may follow the grand plan, but needs to adventure into the unknown without feeling guilty. Who knows, based upon where he ends up and who he meets (yeah, toss a girlfriend in there and things do change, quickly), he will discover his other passions. Great bunch of choices already in hand. Congrats, and watch for that gut feeling.</p>
<p>celebrain - When S went 99-03, UM was 30% OOS, and now is pushing 40%. You're right about the considerable difference between the intellectual "feel" (flagship state school, rah rah, etc.) and the actual academic quality. To the OP, UM does not have grade inflation, and every course my S took challenged him. He participated in the residential college program for 2 years (small classes, research). Everyone he was connected with had jobs or grad schools in hand upon graduation.</p>
<p>I was simply highlighting the different feels between the schools, which always seems more apparent when you have a large group of in-staters. UMich as you noted has a considerable amount of out-of-staters, but for in-staters it is still less challenging to gain entry into.</p>
<p>Your point, celebrian, underscores why the admission to Honors is important there, as the admissions for it is just as tough for instaters as OOS, so the caliber of students in that program is uniformly challenging.</p>
<p>Do honors students only take honors classes? I don't see how they can be completely isolated from the rest of the university, which is why I just don't think UMIch is ever going to have that intellectual feel of a place like UChicago, though academically, they're on similar playing fields.</p>
<p>cangel...good idea. we do have spring break approaching before april 1 and have plans, so that should help alot. umich seems to send a letter every other day about something since his acceptance which keeps it all uppermost in our minds (as if it wasn't there already).</p>
<p>simba-movie marathon..good idea. (just so animal house isn't one of those!!) :-)</p>
<p>shennie-his best "feel" has been at Chicago, but he has not visited Rice or UMich (he will go there in the next few weeks). Rice is so far away for us that we will visit if we feel it's real viable option in April. He has a friend there who encouraged him to apply here at the last minute.</p>
<p>garland-my reason is that UMich is such a large university and all classes would not be in the honor's program. I think he could find his niche here and do well.</p>
<p>thumper-location...that's why almost all schools are in big cities..anna arbor being the exception. He really would like that accesibilty to new things and experiences a big city would offer. </p>
<p>Maize&Blue-We are trying to relax and make the right decision based on the options. <he participated="" in="" the="" residential="" college="" program="" for="" 2="" years="" (small="" classes,="" research).="" everyone="" he="" was="" connected="" with="" had="" jobs="" or="" grad="" schools="" hand="" upon="" graduation.=""> Tell me more about this. We got the letter and I called to talk to the recruiter person who answers questions. She said that 15% of the kids in residential college are in honors also. It surprised me that the number was so small. They kind of seem to go together in my mind. Was it a very challenging program?</he></p>
<p>celebrian-that's what I was referring to as well.</p>
<p>good news just now..my S got an email from the WashU telling him he is one of 35 finalists for the honor's scholars program (12 slots for full tuition). He will be going there in April to interview.</p>
<p>celebrian, you are correct. There is a totally different feel to a big state U, even a great academic one, and U of Chicago or a similar school. I attended both, and felt Chicago had a very unique personality. It happened to be a personality I would NOT have wanted for myself as an undergrad, or for my kids, but I can see how it would be perfect for the right kid. The reason the percentage admitted is higher than many schools, is that most kids who apply have figured this out.</p>
<p>No, they don't only take Honors courses, though when I was there, many courses had honors sections, besides the Honors-only courses.</p>
<p>Most of the people I hung around with were Honors students, but I didn't feel my nonhonors courses were intellectually "below" me. Transfering there from a less academically oriented colllege, I found the intellectual curiosity and excitement that had been missing before. The fact that I rubbed shoulders with nonHonors students didn't take anything away from that. If that would bother someone, then agreed, that's not the best fit.</p>
<p>I don't mean this to come across as my S is arrogant and being with non-honors kids would be a big deal. It is just that he has had few peers in his school experience and is very much looking for the challenge of a strong student body.</p>
<p>kdos - My S had friends from all walks of life at UM, and they remain very close. Honors, non-honors, east quaders, non-east quaders, frats, no frats, sports nuts, no sports nuts, male, female, you name it. There is much to be learned in that environment - formal academics notwithstanding. I was unaware of the level of participation of honors students within the residential college. Never came up as an observation of S's. It may make sense that the honors program students don't feel the need to "double up" so to speak, while the residential college is an inclusive program. I believe that a student such as your S can't help but seek out stimulating environments (as mine did/does). The issue is whether those opportunities exist where he will be. For the schools your S applied to, these opportunities abound. Fortunately, you've covered 1,2 and 4 from your list and now only need to wait for #3.</p>
<p>Congrats on the WUStL news. One of D's hs friends is on some $$$ honors scholarship there as a frosh and loves it (engineering kinda guy). And he didn't even realize that St. Louis, MO and this excellent school existed before his GC suggested he apply.</p>
<p>The only thing I would add to the helpful comments given is to include the "personality fit" into your definition of "intellectual fit." Even within similarly strong intellectual environments, the feel of the school, as others have mentioned, can greatly affect the overall experience. I would recommend another visit, overnights if possible, after acceptances come in to the top 2 or 3, as Shennie suggested. This isn't as hard to do as it sounds, as the colleges have "accepted student weekends" for this very purpose.</p>