<p>Among unhooked kids - the ones who applied and were accepted ED to Cornell had lower stats than the kids who applied and were accepted RD. Kids with similar stats were rejected RD. You don’t really need to know a lot more than that. Look at Naviance for your own school. You’ll see lower stats for ED kids. The number of actual people living in Ithaca is not large enough to affect their class. They also claim that being from New York State does not give you an advantage in applying. I used to get depressed and cynical about all the legacies and athletes but when I saw actual acceptances it seemed to not be as big of an advantage as it’s cracked up to be.</p>
<p>We should start another thread on which schools it pays to apply ED. I know when my daughter showed up at Wash U - everyone she met was ED.</p>
<p>I think that is a different thread, and would be an interesting one. Personally I think ED is a quite real hook at schools that care a lot about yield. The higher the RD yield, the less ED is a hook there.</p>
<p>thumper, I agree with those who think it would be just too restrictive to have every school be SCEA or SCED just to guard against those who would wriggle out of the ED commitment. We’ve now been through ED twice (and, as of today, successfully both times :D). Both times it was because the ED school was far and away the favorite. And in both cases the schools were ones which were really looking for students who would fit at that school. Perhaps both of those factors are making me see the process with a rosier tint? </p>
<p>amazon, take a look at <a href=“2013 College Acceptance Rates - Interactive Feature - NYTimes.com”>2013 College Acceptance Rates - Interactive Feature - NYTimes.com; to see some comparative data on ED/RD/EA acceptance rates. The NY Times generally does a summary at the end of each admissions cycle.</p>
<p>Amazon, 30% of Cornell’s entering freshmen are from NY state alone. Yes, it’s a huge advantage to the land grant institutions. Twenty percent of entering kids are African-American, Hispanic or Native American. I believe Cornell has Posse. I don’t think it participates in Questbridge but it has its own opportunity programs (HEOP, EOP, COSEP) plus it has a huge admissions rate for local kids. Fifteen percent of Cornell kids are legacy ([Legacies</a> Make Up 15 Percent of Cornell Students | The Sun](<a href=“http://cornellsun.com/blog/2013/10/15/legacies-make-up-15-percent-of-cornell-students/]Legacies”>Legacies Make Up 15 Percent of Cornell Students | The Cornell Daily Sun)) We still haven’t discussed developmental admits or recruited athletes. </p>
<p>Ok, let’s go through the numbers with a top lac, Amherst. </p>
<p>It has 450 freshman seats. Of those, 48 students were African-American, 46 were Hispanic, 2 were Native American, 32 were multi-racial and 67 were Asian-American. (<a href=“https://www.amherst.edu/media/view/445948[/url]”>https://www.amherst.edu/media/view/445948</a>) Sixty-six to 75 seats are reserved for recruited athletes. (<a href=“Gaining Admission: Athletes Win Preference - The New York Times”>Gaining Admission: Athletes Win Preference - The New York Times; [Online</a> Extra: Amherst’s “A” List: Affluence, Achievement, Athletics - Businessweek](<a href=“Bloomberg - Are you a robot?”>Bloomberg - Are you a robot?)) Twenty-one percent are from low-income families. I’m not sure how many legacy admits they have but the article says they admit half of all legacy applicants. Plus, faculty kids, developmental athletes, etc. </p>
<p>Now, the thing is that these stats overlap. You could have a low-income minority kid who is an athletic recruit. But yes, a lot of kids are hooked.</p>
<p>Which hooks are same/different at ED vs. RD times?</p>
<p>Some schools consider legacy status only during ED.</p>
<p>vonlost, There’s no general answer because hooks vary depending on the school. There are schools that specifically want to target low-income kids, for example. Some schools do not consider race while some schools may target different races. (For example, Asian-American students may be underrpresented at one school but not another.) Some schools look at gender, etc. </p>
<p>In general, there’s the legacy status that Slithey mentioned but, also, there are programs with really early deadlines so some of the income program kids may be identified early in the cycle.</p>
<p>Adding: I do think some hooks may matter more in ED than not. One of my kids (URM) applied ED to a top lac and was deferred, later rejected. Kid was accepted to a bunch of really good lacs so the application itself wasn’t weak. The following year, a kid from the same school was accepted ED with slightly lower stats but the hook was different-- the kid was an athletic recruit. (The school in question is Division III.) My sample size is 1 but I am not sure that a non-legacy URM is helped that much by applying ED but I think an athlete is.</p>
<p>The fact that 30% of Cornell’s kids are from NY State doesn’t prove anything. Probably a large number of kids at any competitive school in the Northeast are from NY State. The land grant schools include a wide range of majors and Cornell says that you are not advantaged at one of them by being from NY State. You get a $15,000 a year discount which could account for something. Like I said, there are not a lot of people who live in Ithaca. They probably give a boost to locals but that doesn’t make a difference at such a large school. </p>
<p>Also, Asian-Americans are not “hooked”. They’re the opposite of hooked.</p>
<p>Amazon, I suspect you are from NY. No, the other top competitive schools in the northeast outside NY state do not have 30% New Yorkers. There is absolutely a preference, Cornell just doesn’t publicize it but the numbers make it obvious as is the fact that they are unusual in that they are an ivy that accept a number of community college students. As far as locals-- there is a big preference. By itself, they are a small part of the class but once you add in all the other preferences, yes, it’s a lot. </p>
<p>And Asian-Americans are hooked depending on the school. I can send you a private mail but they were considered URMs at my kid’s top lac because they apply and enroll in lower numbers. At some top lacs, there are diversity initiatives that include Asian-Americans along with Hispanics, African-Americans and Native Americans. They are not URMs at ivies but, yes, at some top lacs.</p>
<p>Ok, according to what I found, 30% of Cornell’s entering class was just from NY. NY plus Middle Atlantic was 49.3% [Admissions[/url</a>]</p>
<p>In comparison, Middle Atlantic (including NY state) from Harvard was 22.7% <a href=“https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/admissions-statistics[/url]”>Admissions Statistics | Harvard](<a href=“http://admissions.cornell.edu/]Admissions[/url”>http://admissions.cornell.edu/)</a></p>
<p>7.1% at Yale
27% at Dartmouth [Class</a> Profile](<a href=“http://www.dartmouth.edu/admissions/facts/class.html]Class”>http://www.dartmouth.edu/admissions/facts/class.html)
38% at Columbia (and Columbia is a city school so it gets a lot of local applicants and, like Cornell, it has opportunity programs specifically for NY state kids) </p>
<p>Here are the stats. Columbia is in 2nd place and we already know that some students will have an advantage being from NY because HEOP kids are instate and are supposed to be inadmissible under normal admissions criteria. Columbia also has outreach programs and they may give those kids preferences like Harvard does with low-income public school Boston kids. </p>
<p>Anyway, colleges say things but you have to look at the numbers. Cornell does give a preference to NY state kids. It’s not good or bad. It can be argued that, as a land grant institution, it has a responsibility to the tax payers supporting it. It could also be argued that Columbia, Yale and Harvard have a special ability to reach out to disadvantaged kids in their backyards. Again, I’m not laying judgement on them for it but I think it’s helpful to recognize when one is assessing the odds for his/ her own kid.
[2014</a> Ivy League Admissions Statistics | The Ivy Coach](<a href=“http://theivycoach.com/2014-ivy-league-admissions-statistics/]2014”>2014 Ivy League Admissions Statistics | Ivy Coach)</p>
<p>“vonlost, There’s no general answer because hooks vary depending on the school.”</p>
<p>Thanks, but the question I meant to ask was: How are hooks are different from ED to RD time? I’d guess they apply in both periods, e.g., athletes are recruited in both periods, legacies are considered in both periods, etc., to the extent that a school considers such hooks.</p>
<p>Some schools (notably UPenn) specifically tell alumni that legacy preference is given during ED not RD. Some coaches use all their tips (remember each coach has a limited number of tips) during ED so there are none left over for RD.</p>
<p>I don’t live in NY but it would be interesting to see if there are proportionately more New Yorkers at Cornell than kids from Connecticut and New Jersey and if there are proportionately more kids in the land grant school. Do you have current information about the community college kids? Seems like you’re bringing up all the old Cornell bashing tropes that are talked about on the Cornell site. And what are all of the other preferences? New Yorkers? Many are from Westchester and Long Island which have some of the most competitive high schools in the country. I would like to see if Cornell has a significantly larger percentage of New Yorkers than Dartmouth or Brown.</p>
<p>OK, so Dartmouth has more kids from New England. Doesn’t probe that Cornell prefers New Yorkers. New Yorkers may prefer Cornell because it’s close. What about Penn?</p>
<p>Amazon, I gave you the stats. Brown’s class is 25% from all Mid-Atlantic states, including NY. So yes, Cornell has way more NY admits than any other ivy. </p>
<p><a href=“Volunteer | Alumni & Friends | Brown University”>http://alumni.brown.edu/volunteer/alumni-interviewing/handbook/documents/Brown_Admission_FAQ.pdf</a></p>
<p>I’m not bashing Cornell. I never go on the Cornell threads. I know you have a kid there. I also have immediate family who attended there and went on to another ivy for professional school. It’s a great school and that relative credits it with much of their success in life. Again, a lot of top schools feel that they have a responsibility to instate or local kids and have initiatives for those kids.</p>
<p>As far as community colleges, Cornell apparently admits about 500 transfers a year, a third from community colleges, and most go into the public parts of Cornell.
[Jack</a> Kent Cooke Foundation - Cornell University - Achievements and Promising Practices](<a href=“http://www.jkcf.org/grants/community-college-transfer/grant-recipients/cornell-university/cornell-university-achievements-and-promising-practices/]Jack”>http://www.jkcf.org/grants/community-college-transfer/grant-recipients/cornell-university/cornell-university-achievements-and-promising-practices/) </p>
<p>And while NY has plenty of top public and private schools, it is hardly the state with the greatest number of top kids. Look at the Natl Merit cut-offs. They are higher for Mass, Calif, Md, DC, NJ and Virginia. </p>
<p>[FairTest</a> Press Release: National Merit Scholarship Qualifying Scores Vary Greatly State-By State | FairTest](<a href=“http://www.fairtest.org/fairtest-press-release-national-merit-scholarship-2013]FairTest”>http://www.fairtest.org/fairtest-press-release-national-merit-scholarship-2013)</p>
<p>It looks like fewer than 8% of UPenn kids were from NY. </p>
<p>[Incoming</a> Class Profile - Penn Admissions](<a href=“http://www.admissions.upenn.edu/apply/incoming-class-profile]Incoming”>http://www.admissions.upenn.edu/apply/incoming-class-profile)</p>
<p>And Dartmouth only takes 19% of kids from New England. I doubt that’s overrepresented. Brown has 17%. Harvard has 17%.</p>
<p>Again, almost half of all kids entering Cornell as freshmen were from NY or the Mid-Atlantic with a full 30% just from NY state. If you don’t want to understand, you don’t have to. But the more stats I give you, the more I make my case. Each school has its own recruiting priorities. A school like Cornell or Yale or Brown could leave out every NY resident and still have an equally talented class. When you see a school that has that dramatic an overrepresentation, you can see that there’s a preference there and use it to your advantage. If you are a high-achieving NY state resident, it’s a school to consider. And, frankly, it’s no secret that some of the categories I’ve expressed (HEOP, COSEP, community college transfers, local kids) are Cornell preferences and bring in more instate kids.</p>
<p>Ok…I’ll retract what I said. Certainly it is imperative that students apply to other schools. And they need to do so in a timely fashion.</p>
<p>And as noted they are SUPPOSED to withdraw their other applications when they receive the ED acceptance. Assuming the financial aid makes the school affordable.</p>
<p>It’s actually unfortunate that the deadlines for scholarships and such are so early in December. maybe that is what should be changed…so that the ED acceptances or rejections would still allow ample time for other applications, and scholarships to be pursued.</p>
<p>I DO think ALL ED applicants should have ALL other applications in the “go” box. Submitting them to meet those scholarship deadlines…or just to have them done…is a good idea.</p>
<p>I’m guessing it might not be all that easy for a student to get those applications done in the face of an ED rejection.</p>
<p>I just hope folks are being honest with the current system of ED applications.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Excellent point, and one i made to D for next year. She has a clear favorite and it does offer ED and it meets full need so ED is a possibility. But it has a low accept rate so she has to be ready with the others and many of those are only “sure things/safeties” if certain scholarship deadlines are met.</p>
<p>…and how much will some kids feel like writing about themselves and putting their best foot forward when all they have so far is a rejection? The advice to get a good rolling or early admit, even if applying somewhere else ED, means getting everything done for all schools by the ED deadline. Even leaving supplements to other schools undone is risky.</p>
<p>I have a friend who is an admissions rep at a top 50 lac. They used to offer EA and felt used as a safety. Now they only offer ED. I hadn’t asked him about ED yield - this school doesn’t guarantee full need though is known to be generous to students it wants - but next time I see him I will. I got the impression it wasn’t a big problem.</p>
<p>If possible, send an EA app to a second or third choice when sending the ED app.</p>