<p>I've heard that when you apply ED and get accepted you get a smaller aid package than you probably would when you apply RD and get accepted. Have you had any trouble with FA when your D/S were accepted ED? Were there situations in which your D/S had to give up going to college because you just didn't have the money to pay the tuition with the FA package?</p>
<p>My d was accepted to CAP21 at NYU ED; she got $9,000 per year scholarship. I don't know if she would have gotten more if RD; I don't know how you could find that out.</p>
<p>You may or you may not. As rossji indicated, there is no way to find out. What you lose with ED is the opportunity to compare aid packages, or to use comparative packages from other schools as a negotiating point to get increased aid.</p>
<p>If the school states a policy of meeting a student's demonstrated need I wouldn't have any fear of getting a lower package on an ED acceptance.</p>
<p>Well, I sure would. And it is based on firsthand experience of the huge differences in "demonstrated need" different "need blind" (doesn't exist), "100% of need met" schools found with same the very same EFC and very same documentation. And ours wasn't a particularly confusing situation - no real estate trusts or second homes or big outside businesses or capital gains and losses, or uncertain income. Straight government job, and very small business. Huge as is well more than a full year's cost difference over four years.</p>
<p>I can't think of a single incentive a school has for providing a richer package when they are already guaranteed to get a student with "demonstrated need light". What's in it for the institution? They've already made the sale, and closed the deal, and if you were them, wouldn't you feel obligated to use the what you saved on another deserving and needy student rather than this one? I sure would. Every single senior admissions and financial aid officer at the major colleges is trained extensively in "yield management", and this is one of the first lessons.</p>
<p>But I agree wholeheartedly with Reidm - you shouldn't "fear" it; you should assume it. If it produces fear, you shouldn't be applying ED to begin with.</p>
<p>Reid, "demonstrated need" is a fluid concept, and most colleges will negotiate their need based aid, whether or not they do so as an official policy. The most effective and common way that students go about negotiating is simply to fax the admitting school with a copy of the financial aid award they have received from the competing school. It is very common for the admitting school to then sweeten the pot, sometimes matchng the award from the competing school. </p>
<p>The ED student simply doesn't have the opportunity to do this -- they are free to try to negotiate the initial financial aid award, of course, but they don't have any comparative information to deal with, and they don't have the added bargaining chip of multiple awards in hand. </p>
<p>That doesn't mean that the ED student doesn't get financial aid -- it is that the amount of aid may very well be less than the amount a similarly situated student gets in the RD round.</p>
<p>And my experience is the same as mini's -- same family, same facts, produced wildly different award amounts (+/- $9000) at different schools purporting to meet 100% of demonstrated need.</p>
<p>As has been said here over and over, if aid matters to you one iota, don't apply ED.</p>
<p>"If the school states a policy of meeting a student's demonstrated need I wouldn't have any fear of getting a lower package on an ED acceptance."</p>
<p>I would have that fear, which is why S is not applying ED.</p>
<p>It's important to realize that colleges calculate need in different ways and also construct aid packages in different ways. Colleges have been known to make aid offers to the same student that are thousands of dollars different.</p>
<p>In addition, it's up to colleges how much of the aid package is grants, loans and self-help (summer employment, work study). Some students get scholarship packages that include $10,000-$20,000 a year in loans. The same students may get the same overall aid amount from another college, but recieve 100% grants from that college.</p>
<p>If finances are any kind of concern, do not apply ED. Should your child get an ED acceptance and not like their financial aid, it also is very difficult to get out of ED. If the college met your financial aid by giving your kid $20,000 a year in loans, they may not feel your child has reason to back out of the contract.</p>
<p>I agree with those posters who feel that ED should be avoided if there is any question about ability/willingness to pay. I only favor ED in very specific cases. But the OP question was not about losing the opportunity to compare, or whether there would be differences in aid packages among schools that appeared to have the same aid policy. Those questions have been answered long ago.</p>
<p>This question was about whether a student's ED aid package would be lower than the package they would get if they applied RD to THE SAME SCHOOL. I've never seen anything that supported that, other than some anecdotes from 2-3 years ago and around that same time, a quote from a #50-100 State U financial aid officer. </p>
<p>I have however, seen plenty of evidence, and direct comment from admissions offices, that (a) some kids in the RD round are waitlisted or rejected if their EFC is too low, and (b) the last batch of acceptances may carry lower aid packages than ED aid packages, or packages offered to top students RD. The latter supports the idea that an RD aid package could well be lower than an ED aid package, depending on the student and the school.</p>
<p>Going back to the original question, I don't know Reidm, if I go along with that. I am being ambiguous because I really do not know. But my FEELING is that since merit packages are very clearly being used to entice a certain type of student to the school, whether it is because the school wants to give underenrolled majors a boost, wants more geographic diversity, wants more women in engineering, etc, there would be no point in giving the locked in ED student the award. Note that at NYU, for instance, ED kids are NOT invited to this big ballyhoo of Sunday in the Square. Those kids are locked in--why the heck court them? Now admittedly, ED kids do seem to get equal consideration in their merit awards, but at some school, that does not seem to be the case as they openly admit that factors other than academic excellence play a strong role, and those awards are to try to entice underrepresent types to the school in addition to rewarding the top kids. I agree more with Mini's take on the deal. I know Emory and Miami caution ED kids that merit awards may not be announced prior to ED commitment deadlines right up front. But I have never seen a listing of who get the awards broken down between Early and Regulare accepted students.</p>
<p>"This question was about whether a student's ED aid package would be lower than the package they would get if they applied RD to THE SAME SCHOOL."</p>
<p>I would think that if finances were no consideration, the OP would not have posted the question. Thus, it seems appropriate for some to have replied with info about how if finances are a consideration, it's usually best not to apply ED so as to maximize one's student's chances of being able to get excellent merit and financial aid, and to be able to be in a good situation to negotiate to get the best aid possible from one's preferred institution.</p>
<p>"But the OP question was not about losing the opportunity to compare, or whether there would be differences in aid packages among schools that appeared to have the same aid policy."</p>
<p>Well, I'd ask a rather simple question: what principle of "yield management" practiced by every major college and university in the country would support the notion that the packages for ED should be the same as those offered to the same student during RD? Since an double-blind test is impossible, the only possible source of information is examining the principles under which admissions practice.</p>
<p>If you need/want money, it is not a good idea to apply ED. It is not the way to find out that a particular school that has always been generous to its ED kids had a change of policy and gave out more loans than usual the year you apply. Especially more loans than you want. There is no way to compare offers without going through the process of petitioning out of the ED agreement for financial reasons. Then you might well find out that was your best offer! Though there are families who have done very well on the financial aid end going the ED route, that is not what you need to focus upon; it is those who end up in trouble. It can happen. You can end up with an unsatisfactory package and have to go through a stressful and ornerous process. Better you don't lock yourself in and compare offers.</p>
<p>I think you need to read carefully each college's ED policy. In S's case, his ED school specifically stated that ED applicants get priority consideration for half-tuition merit scholarships. Money was not an issue, and we did not qualifiy for need-based aid. We told him to apply ED to any school he felt was a good fit. That said, we knew he had an excellent chance of a merit scholarship with his stats, and he did receive one.</p>
<p>Thanks I'll read the school's policy. Reading all of these I might even ED to a school since I'm a middle class asian. anyways thanks for your help.</p>
<p>Again, if comparing financial offers from a variety of schools is an integral part of one's admission strategy, ED is out from the get-go. </p>
<p>Other posters note a case where an RD offer may well be better than an ED offer, where a school uses merit aid to attract certain students. However, there are cases where an RD offer would be lower than an ED offer. Following mini's analysis of aid policies, this would be in the last batch of acceptances at most selective LACs and private unis. Kinshasa cites a specific school where this may be the case for another reason, one where it appears that merit aid is used to encourage ED applications. Bottom line, the OP's lead statement: "I've heard that when you apply ED and get accepted you get a smaller aid package than you probably would when you apply RD and get accepted." is not consistently true.</p>
<p>My impression of financial aid at most schools (not based on any big survey or insider knowledge) is that what's set the first year does influence subsequent years. If you manage to negotiate a better aid package at the outset, with costs and incomes rising, you can expect to get the same kind of aid in subsequent years. One reason I would be hesitant to see a kid enter a school off the waitlist when available aid might be low. You just can't predict that the next year that it will get any better, even if your student would have done better had they been initially admitted. (This is starting to sound confusing to me, too). I feel it's very important to have a comfortable aid package from the beginning as it puts you in a much better bargaining position in later years. There are so many unknowns about ED that I think you'd have to go into it assuming aid will be lousy or non-existent and that you're willing to pay in full. EA is another matter.</p>
<p>"However, there are cases where an RD offer would be lower than an ED offer. Following mini's analysis of aid policies, this would be in the last batch of acceptances at most selective LACs and private unis."</p>
<p>That's an interesting take. It cuts somewhat different at Carleton, Smith, and, I think, a bunch of others. They are not "need-blind" (at least they are honest), but they say they meet 100% of need. What that means at Smith at least is that when they get down near the last 5% of acceptances, they total up what they've already awarded, and if they are out of money in the budget, they don't ACCEPT you if you need financial aid, and will take a similar candidate without need. Since they already gave away the store (at a rate roughly 50% higher than, for example, Yale or Haverford), the cupboard is bare. But it doesn't affect the size of the packages to those they do accept.</p>
<p>"If you manage to negotiate a better aid package at the outset, with costs and incomes rising, you can expect to get the same kind of aid in subsequent years. "</p>
<p>At many schools, loans and students' contribution through work study and summer employment increase after junior year. This is because students can earn more then, and also are less likely to drop out because of fear of having loans.</p>
<p>On my recent trip with my girls to schools in the PNW I made more than one adcon squirm when I asked them to describe for me how THEIR school calculated EFC. Having had the experience last year of seeing a $10,000 difference of my EFC between two different "needs blind" schools, I am asking much more pointed questions this time around.</p>
<p>Want to see an adcon sweat, hold their feet to the fire on this issue.</p>