<p>We pay the full freight for college at $45k+ and my child is working this summer to earn pocket money for school. She can't help but notice a number of classmates that receive substantial financial aid on study groups this summer all over the world, largely paid for with additional aid. I can understand financial aid to help someone attend school and get a degree who would otherwise not have the chance, but I'm not sure about supporting international travel. I'd love for our child to have a similar chance to travel, but we can't justify the expense. However, it seems like we're indirectly paying for others to have these opportunities. Maybe this is very isolated, has anyone noticed the same?</p>
<p>The summer trips were separate merit scholarships at DD’s school. (We do not qualify for need based aid) She applied for one and was awarded a portion of her expenses. She is using hers to study in the US instead of international, but that was an option for that scholarship. Perhaps your DD is not aware of the opportunities that exist. DD found out from someone who was a year older than her and had won one the year before. They were not widely advertised outside of the departments.</p>
<p>At most of the schools I’ve looked at, those summer study programs are merit based. Most need-based summer financial aid is all loans, usually Stafford loans. If it truly is need-based, those students are either working through the year or are sacrificing a lot of spending money just to go abroad.</p>
<p>“If it truly is need-based, those students are either working through the year or are sacrificing a lot of spending money just to go abroad.”</p>
<p>This is true. They’re having to sacrifice in some ways, something that’s true even if students get need-based scholarships to go abroad. They’d still have to take out more loans, work more hours or cut back on their overall expenses in order to make up for the shortfall of not working during the summer and to cover their spending $ on the trip.</p>
<p>Mark, one of my kids was awarded a merit based travel award (no strings attached); another won sort of a travel/internship thing that had some requirements (had to submit a paper at the end for credit) which was also non-need based.</p>
<p>These are not publicized very broadly. Both of the above awards had cash stipends as well as the expense component which was really generous and above and beyond.</p>
<p>Your D needs to cultivate a relationship with one of the administrative assistants in her department (they usually know everything) who can give her a first alert on travel fellowships, merit based opportunities, etc. Some of these can only go to students majoring in that department and others have broader criteria. The money is usually handled seperately from University financial aid, and frequently is merit only. </p>
<p>The second good source is the university’s fellowship office (it may be called something else… but it’s the office that handles Rhodes, Marshalls, Fulbright applications.) They will have a big book (or an online searchable directory) of various opportunities which are merit based. Some will have stiff requirements (i.e. the three I’ve mentioned) and others will just have some GPA type cut-off and two faculty recommendations, an essay, etc. Some will required an interview and others will just accept based on the application.</p>
<p>If your D is active in any campus activities, she should make sure she’s on the listserv and mailing lists for all of them. My kids would often get a ping about some “if you want to work in a natural history museum this summer here’s an application for a program and by the way we can give you $1,000 on top of the salary” type of deal. Again, merit only.</p>
<p>We are full freight also. I think the question is whether it’s additional cost. My daughter is going abroad, but as it turns out the total cost of going abroad is less than her school, so it’s a good deal for us (goes to show you how expensive US education is). I think at least at her school, to study abroad is not necessary more expensive. At the same time, some people may view study abroad as part of good college experience, so it should be available to everyone, FA or not.</p>
<p>It’s not unusual for full freight students to take out loans to pay for an abroad experience, especially if they have the good fortune to be going through school without loans or with minimal loans.</p>
<p>Marksc- At my D’s school financial aid students receive full aid for summer programs abroad, as you described. The students whose parents miss the cut-off for FA do indeed work to make spending money and textbook money while their wealthy and needy friends tour Italian cathedrals, learn languages and conduct exotic research. Another case of middle class squeeze.</p>
<p>"At my D’s school financial aid students receive full aid for summer programs abroad, as you described. "</p>
<p>Keep in mind that they still have to find money to pay for their personal expenses during the trip and during the school year. The fact that they aren’t working while studying abroad means they will have to either work more hours at other times or take out higher loans. There’s no free ride.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, the really poor students whom I see in college don’t get to travel abroad. Perhaps they are able to at the most generous colleges – places like HPYS – but they aren’t able to travel abroad at most other colleges.</p>
<p>Some middle class students who qualify for need-based aid do get to travel abroad by doing the things that I’ve mentioned before.</p>
<p>A family that has chosen to pay $45 k a year for an education could have chosen to send their student to have funded their student’s study abroad while attending a less expensive school. For middle and lower class people, these kind of decisions require trade-offs. There are far fewer options for people who are poor.</p>
<p>Responding to post #8, many FA students have not once previously, in any other situation, been out of the country for study or recreation, whereas many of their middle-class classmates have done so more than once, with families or on enrichment summer programs such as Oxbridge, etc. In fact, many full-FA students have rarely or never been on vacations or excursions, period, especially outside the perimeter of their region or state.</p>
<p>I consider some minimum travel to be in some ways part of the literacy that I expect of an educated adult in the 21st century developed world. I guess I’m a minority voice here.</p>
<p>I agree with you epiphany. Another point is that a full pay student at a $45 k school could have chosen to study abroad while going to a cheaper school. For most low income students, even inexpensive colleges can be unaffordable or affordable only with great sacrifice, and study abroad usually is out of the question.</p>
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<p>Very true. I get that the middle class FEELS squeezed, but the last couple of posts make a really good point. I (and my other low-class friends) have never been on vacation, much less out of the country!</p>
<p>Yes, NSM, I’m referring to HYPS, where FA students can even get money for tuxedos and eating club dues. And the middle class kids are supposed to go to lower-tiered schools to afford travel abroad? </p>
<p>There are tons of those mc kids who have never traveled, but worked every summer, all summer. It’s not a FEELING of being squeezed, it’s a real squeeze.</p>
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<p>The middle class has the OPTION of sending students to lower-tier schools, whereas a student from the lower class either goes to community college while working or to a top-tier school at which everything is going to be paid for them. A lower-class student is going to a top-tier school as a necessity (unless he or she wants to take out $50,000 in loans to go to the in-state public), whereas a middle class student has a variety of options to choose from. A low-income student has a family with no savings and often no ability to take out loans other than the student loans offered by the government, which are limited. Middle class parents often have credit good enough to get a loan. </p>
<p>There are tons of lower-class kids who have never traveled, but have worked EVERY YEAR, ALL YEAR. It’s not a FEELING of being lucky, it’s a real disadvantage.</p>
<p>"Yes, NSM, I’m referring to HYPS, where FA students can even get money for tuxedos and eating club dues. And the middle class kids are supposed to go to lower-tiered schools to afford travel abroad? </p>
<p>There are tons of those mc kids who have never traveled, but worked every summer, all summer. It’s not a FEELING of being squeezed, it’s a real squeeze."</p>
<p>I’m middle class, and sons did not qualify for need-based financial aid, and I feel the financial squeeze of sending my son through college. Virtually everyone except the wealthy makes their college decision based in part on finances. I don’t see that as something to complain about. I can’t afford a Mercedes, so I happily drive what I can afford, and I feel very fortunate to be able to afford a car. That’s life. I don’t think it’s tragic that both of my sons worked while in college and during summers. I did the same as did my husband when we were in college. </p>
<p>From the beginning of their college app process, my sons knew that they needed to apply to schools that we could afford. For mainly financial reasons, older S turned down 3 first tier colleges to go to a 2nd tier college that offered him excellent merit aid. Younger S could have gone to a second tier public for virtually free, but selected a 2nd tier LAC where he got some merit aid, but we still are taking out loans and cutting back in other ways to help him go there. S is supposed to go on a brief study abroad next school year. We still haven’t figured out how we’ll pay for it, but still, our kid has had extensive travel experiences with our family. He’s not like many poor kids who have spent their entire lives within a few miles of their hometown. </p>
<p>Every day I am grateful that my family is not poor. I do not begrudge the poor kids who get into HPY and are able to get excellent need-based aid plus help for trips, etc. They’ve had it far rougher than my family has, and they’ve had to overcome obstacles that my kids and I never faced. Most poor kids have far fewer options than do virtually all middle class kids including mine. I wish more colleges gave them travel and other opportunities. </p>
<p>Heck, I wish more colleges gave them the financial aid they need in order to simply attend college - any college, even the 2nd and 3rd tier public colleges that people here turn their noses up at.</p>
<p>I don’t know about YPS, but H is throwing money after students to go abroad, whether or not they are on full ride or full fare. Over spring vac, friends of my S went to: Europe; China; Korea, all on Harvard’s dime.</p>
<p>Northstarmom gets an awful lot of respect from me. It’s not about complaining about your situation; it’s about being thankful for what you’ve got. I’m thankful that I’m probably going to graduate less than $40,000 in debt. Northstarmom is thankful for a lot of things. For super smart low-income kids, yes, being low-income will get them a full ride at top colleges. But I’m pretty sure no one’s saying it would be better to be low-income. Being middle class may not be a walk in the park, but being low-income is no better, no matter how it may “seem”.</p>
<p>NSM, Thank you for telling it like it is. While it’s a big Duh that the wealthiest have the best academic options of either the middle or the lower classes, there’s no question that the very least wealthy have the fewest options, even where HYP are concerned. We are not the only family on this board whose student(s) have had to now and then sacrifice coming home for a holiday or making a mid-summer trip home (during a low-paid summer internship, for example, or job local to campus) while attending a campus far away that nevertheless provided sufficent aid for mere COA. (The business about the eating clubs is that, hello, it’s a dining option. It’s merely one of several meal plans. If you choose that plan, you also have less FA money for other things you might need. Offering it to all students was a way to make campus opportunities equitable for all economic classes.)</p>
<p>There are a tiny fraction of the overall admits to Tier 1 U’s who are there on sheer academic merit AND economically disadvantaged enough to qualify for full FA. It so begrudges the achievements of those who have overcome such hurdles to earn legitimate admissions (grades, scores, outstanding e.c. accomplishments, stellar recs, while also being an open-handed giver rather than a mere academic grind) to complain about their unique opportunity to do a semester abroad.</p>
<p>And when these people do graduate and have graduated, they continue to need to prove themselves to the business world, without family connections, on the same individual merit grounds that they had to for undergraduate admissions. (I know that not all MC families have “connections,” but many can advantage themselves of things like jobs with friends of (family) friends to start out – both in summer and after graduation.) Most full-FA families have never had that, ever.</p>
<p><a href=“The%20business%20about%20the%20eating%20clubs%20is%20that,%20hello,%20it’s%20a%20dining%20option.%20It’s%20merely%20one%20of%20several%20meal%20plans.%20If%20you%20choose%20that%20plan,%20you%20also%20have%20less%20FA%20money%20for%20other%20things%20you%20might%20need.%20Offering%20it%20to%20all%20students%20was%20a%20way%20to%20make%20campus%20opportunities%20equitable%20for%20all%20economic%20classes.”>quote</a>
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<p>This is a good thing to point out. When I was reading about Princeton, one of its goals was to make low-income and lower-middle-income students more integrated. To do this, they expanded their financial aid programs to cover eating clubs. Many schools with very generous financial aid packages include laptops, study abroad, stipends, and other opportunities. The fact is that elite schools are still very wealthy places. There’s no way a low-income or low-middle-income student could fit in comfortably. This is the reason why I, and probably at least a few dozen or hundred other well-achieving low-income students, have a hard time considering the elite schools. Getting in is one thing, fitting in is another. A middle class student might be able to struggle to feel comfortable and take advantage of opportunities, but the administration knows that low-income students don’t have much wiggle room. I think elite institutions are trying to become less wealthy and are, instead, trying to attract all socioeconomic levels. Most elite schools offer substantial financial aid up to the $100,000 mark, or even the $200,000 mark. In that sense, middle class students have the same opportunities as lower class students. Work your ass off and get rewarded with good financial aid at an elite institution. That said, since statistically speaking it is more difficult for a lower-income student to get in (low-income students statistically have lower numbers and fewer ECs), the middle class may or may not have more options.</p>
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<p>I’m sure you’re speaking for yourself accurately, but please do not generalize to others, because many people fit in fine, even if that’s a minority of low-income students. It really depends on the individual student – their personality, and many other factors. What tends to happen is that that actually becomes a factor both in admissions (self-selecting the schools of choice, and the committee also sensing by aspects of the application & recs whether the student will adjust & find a niche), and in enrollment decisions (a hosting days visit during which the student may finalize fit or non-fit).</p>