<p>@mommaj-“Well, you certainly can’t compare DC’s real estate costs, taxes, and cost of living in general to that of Tampa!”"</p>
<p>Why not? The land was obtained eons ago and I would assume some sort of ongoing subsidy for property tax abatement. And the rest of the cost of living incidentals can’t account for the whopping 50% difference in cost of attendance between the schools. </p>
<p>@mini…“We found that financial aid at AU seemed to have no relationship to our EFC whatsoever, and when we queried the Financial Aid office about that, they basically confirmed it.”"</p>
<p>By chance, was your EFC more than the cost of attendance? Is it even worth the effort to file the Fafsa if your EFC is that high?</p>
<p>@ncmentor… It’s at the point where the more affordable schools are getting much harder to get admitted to just because of low cost. Case in point, dd2 applied to UNC-Wilmington, easily a target school for her, but she did not get in. Her HS guidance counselor was very surprised as were we. The COA at that school is quite low for OOS. ($27,682) She went to Virginia Tech last year instead.</p>
<p>Naturally, high quality and affordable schools are going to be in more demand and harder to get into.</p>
<p>As far as UNCW - without knowing the particulars of your dd2 statistics, my guess is that her HS guidance counselor was less informed than they should have been. If you look up the GPA/SAT statistics you will see either the average, or the 25%-75% threshold but they never break it down by instate / OOS. </p>
<p>Getting into any of the better NC public colleges as an OOS student requires a Much Higher SAT / GPA than any guide suggests.</p>
<p>UNCW like all the public schools in NC are required to be not less than 80% in state students by law (because the taxpayers support the universities so heavily). SO, that means is that OOS students at the popular state universities are competing nationally for a very small percentage of available openings (much less than 20% when you include recruited athletes and other special interest recruited students). </p>
<p>To their credit NC taxpayers have poured money and resources into the UNC system (all the state public colleges) for 10 years. The result is that some marginal schools became good schools and good schools (like UNCW) became great schools. While remaining affordable. But that also means the the pool of OOS students applying for admission has also grown exponentially while the 20% rule remains firmly in place. </p>
<p>Your guidance counselor was wrong and thats too bad but no where near as tragic as the thousands upon thousands of students who are told by uninformed guidance counselors that they have the scores needed to attend UNC-Chapel Hill.</p>
<p>“By chance, was your EFC more than the cost of attendance? Is it even worth the effort to file the Fafsa if your EFC is that high?”</p>
<p>Our EFC was one-fifth (approximately) the cost of attendance. And AU didn’t get even close (and admitted it). They also did some other really strange things over the years (one significantly in our favor, and we are not complaining.)</p>
<p>Again, we are not complaining. But don’t let anyone - even an AU Admissions Officer - tell you that the amount of aid they award is directly related to your EFC. You may be rudely disappointed, or extremely pleased, but if your experience is like ours, you may ended up puzzling, “How the heck did they come up with that?”</p>
<p>I already know my EFC, which is like far from the COA of AU. I really like this school, but I don’t really know if I should even apply if the FA won’t help that much.</p>
<p>NervousParent, I believe that AU is still acquiring real estate as it expands. In any event, I can’t imagine where the tuition is going, if not to cover the costs of running the place. Our experience has been that AU is very generous with merit awards, which certainly made it a far more affordable alternative for D.</p>
<p>twinkletwinkle - It’s always worth it to apply. I thought AU would be impossible for me because of the cost, but they gave me great aid and it’s very affordable for me, and I am very grateful for the education I’m getting.</p>
<p>Nervousparent - Believe me, operating costs in a major metropolitan area like DC are significantly higher than in rural area, or in other, less expensive cities, and it doesn’t necessarily have to do with taxes paid on the property. For example, cost of living adjustments to faculty/staff salaries are going to be much higher in DC than Tampa or anywhere in NC (I believe they’re the second-highest in the country behind NYC, where most of the private schools cost about what AU does). The benefits of being in DC, as far as students go, are very tangible.</p>
<p>@ncmentor…""As far as UNCW - without knowing the particulars of your dd2 statistics, my guess is that her HS guidance counselor was less informed than they should have been. If you look up the GPA/SAT statistics you will see either the average, or the 25%-75% threshold but they never break it down by instate / OOS. Getting into any of the better NC public colleges as an OOS student requires a Much Higher SAT / GPA than any guide suggests. UNCW like all the public schools in NC are required to be not less than 80% in state students by law (because the taxpayers support the universities so heavily). SO, that means is that OOS students at the popular state universities are competing nationally for a very small percentage of available openings (much less than 20% when you include recruited athletes and other special interest recruited students).</p>
<h2>To their credit NC taxpayers have poured money and resources into the UNC system (all the state public colleges) for 10 years. The result is that some marginal schools became good schools and good schools (like UNCW) became great schools. While remaining affordable. But that also means the the pool of OOS students applying for admission has also grown exponentially while the 20% rule remains firmly in place. Your guidance counselor was wrong and thats too bad but no where near as tragic as the thousands upon thousands of students who are told by uninformed guidance counselors that they have the scores needed to attend UNC-Chapel Hill.“”</h2>
<p>I and the guidance counselor were completely aware of all that going in. I should have explained to you that the counselor and I are basing our surprise on our historical admittance data to UNCW solely from our HS previous applicants . We use the Naviance data system (family connection), which sorts and graphs all historical application and admittance and matriculation data from just our high school (in Pa.) for the past 10 or so years. Our HS has approx. 1400 kids, so Naviance is a good tool based on a decent amount of data. </p>
<p>Where our surprise (counselor and I) came from is that our dd2 didn’t get in to UNCW when our historical HS admittance data clearly showed that there was an excellent chance she would get in. The counselor and I concluded that in tough economic times, low cost schools like UNCW get more apps, so admission can get more selective.</p>
<p>BTW, I think the OOS students for Chapel Hill is 15%, not 20%</p>
<p>OP, the FA is not very good if you make above a certain income. If you’re upper-middle class, don’t expect much.</p>
<p>I applied last year, so I’ll just give my brief opinion.</p>
<p>While I did have stats that were somewhat higher than yours, I did receive the Presidential Scholarship, which in my case was valued at $30,000. Certain scholarships have a range of values, but they do give out somewhat decent merit aid. Also, if you are a NMF or NAS and designate American University as your first choice, you are put in the running for a full ride.</p>
<p>“The counselor and I concluded that in tough economic times, low cost schools like UNCW get more apps, so admission can get more selective.” - Makes sense to me… And the school has been transformed in the last 5 years too…</p>
<p>No increase in acceptance rate here, (less apps in tough economic times to expensive schools, ergo less selective?), and we are a wealthy school district, so the number of apps didn’t go down either.</p>
<p>““but went up much more from 04 to 07 - this doesn’t say much about the strength of the applications.””</p>
<p>Well, that’s really besides the point, isn’t it? If you get more apps, (from 2004 to 2007) naturally the acceptance rate will go down, no matter the economic conditions.</p>
<p>Hi all - just wanted to make some factual corrections here! Not sure if these HTML tags will work so please disregard them if they don’t!</p>
<p>@mini - <i>Again, we are not complaining. But don’t let anyone - even an AU Admissions Officer - tell you that the amount of aid they award is directly related to your EFC. You may be rudely disappointed, or extremely pleased, but if your experience is like ours, you may ended up puzzling, “How the heck did they come up with that?”</i></p>
<p>Ouch - that one stings! I’m certain that I have not offered anything other than complete and factual information in my short time here with you all, but Mini brings up an important point that may be obscured by all this talk of EFC’s. While the FAFSA form and the EFC are the starting points for the awarding of financial aid, nearly every high cost private institution that I’m aware of will also create an “institutional” need calculation to catch that information that the FAFSA form does not. As you may or may not be aware, it’s somewhat easy (and somewhat common) for parents/students to try and “game” the FAFSA form by limiting the amount of information or carefully selecting the information they provide. A very common circumstance is where parents may report no adjusted gross income because they own a business but their total business worth could be in excess of millions upon millions of dollars. So while their EFC may be zero dollars, the reality is that they could easily afford their child’s education. Our “institutional” need calculation is compliant with federal guidelines but intended to provide a more realistic perspective on a family’s ability to fund their child’s education. It is also necessary given that our livelihood as a University can be directly impacted by the amount of information FAFSA determines (or excludes). We can and do calculate institutional need for applicants and financial aid can and will be based on this calculation, but in virtually every case that I’m aware if a parent or student calls to ask why there’s a significant difference between their FAFSA EFC and what we’re offering in terms of financial aid, we can and do speak to their institutional need as determined by American University.</p>
<p>@ksarmand - <i>Also, if you are a NMF or NAS and designate American University as your first choice, you are put in the running for a full ride.</i></p>
<p>This is factually incorrect. National Merit Scholarship Finalists are eligible to compete for an additional merit scholarship, but the top dollar amount for this scholarship is only $2000. Not sure what the “NAS” acronym you’ve mentioned is referring to, however!</p>
<p>And finally, all this talk of “safety” schools and cross referencing data for admissions purposes is a bit of a slippery slope. If anything, it helps to illustrate how unique each admissions decision is! I know that parents/students want to be as informed as possible about admissions chances at various institutions, but this conversation is a great way to illustrate how each decision is truly individual and should be informed more so by a student’s fit and knowledge of an institution as opposed to simply their academic results.</p>
<p>And “NAS” stands for National Achievement Scholar. During one of my conversations with the admissions office, I was informed that they did offer the same scholarship deal to NMFs and NAFs.</p>
<p>“While the FAFSA form and the EFC are the starting points for the awarding of financial aid, nearly every high cost private institution that I’m aware of will also create an “institutional” need calculation to catch that information that the FAFSA form does not. As you may or may not be aware, it’s somewhat easy (and somewhat common) for parents/students to try and “game” the FAFSA form by limiting the amount of information or carefully selecting the information they provide. A very common circumstance is where parents may report no adjusted gross income because they own a business but their total business worth could be in excess of millions upon millions of dollars. So while their EFC may be zero dollars, the reality is that they could easily afford their child’s education.”</p>
<p>Sorry. No businesses. Straightforward W-2s. No investment income. No big houses. NOTHING unusual. Nothing at all. Financial aid in grants was less than one-third our calculated need. Even including loans and workstudy, it was approximately half. And no, we called, and wrote, and not even once did AU speak to institutional need as determined by AU.</p>
<p>And, this year, they did no calculation at all! (you can write me privately for details.) No relation to EFC whatsoever. </p>
<p>Now, overall, we are relatively satisfied, and our d. is getting a great education. But what AU engages in is what is called “yield management”, a calculation of how little aid they can offer (actually, it goes the other way - how many dollars can they demand?) and still get a student to attend.</p>
<p>@mini…““But what AU engages in is what is called “yield management”, a calculation of how little aid they can offer (actually, it goes the other way - how many dollars can they demand?) and still get a student to attend.””</p>
<p>And there’s the rub. Parent must consider the competitive landscape with the costs of various colleges, some much more expensive than others, and balance that need with their kid’s top choice of where they want to go.</p>
<p>@mini - it is true that American University does not guarantee to meet the full financial need of any of our admitted students. We make every attempt to make our education possible for as many students as possible, but we are not always successful in that regard as we have limited resources to dole out. It appears that, in your case, we were unable to meet your financial need as determined by the University. Many (if not all) high cost private institutions have to be strategic in their awarding of financial aid to make their education accessible to admitted students, incentivize high achieving students to enroll, and make certain that the institution stays fiscally sound. “Yield management” is nothing more than sound business practices for a private institution.</p>
<p>However, it sounds as if all things worked out on your end in terms of enrollment at AU!</p>
<p>Let’s be realistic, like many schools, American tries to meet the needs of as many eligble students as possible. There is no way they can make it “affordable” (as defined by the parents) for every student. Sometimes, a student just has to face the fact that a particular school is not affordable, even with a FA package. But, you knew the COA going into this. Inadequate FA is always be a possibility for any student. I strongly suggest always having a financial safety school - one you can afford even with no FA. (And that student would be happy attending!)</p>