financial aid easier for grad school or undergrad?

Paying for College
1

<p>Here's the question that is causing unending debate in our home. We'd welcome any informed input. </p>

<p>D is a very good student and will be applying to colleges in the fall. My husband wants her to attend as fine of a school as she can get into -- without worry about whether the school will offer merit aid. Without financial assistance, however, her eduction will bust her college fund, leaving no $$$ for grad school. D already knows that she wants to go to grad school. Though she doesn't know which field she will study, it is not likely to be anything lucrative or practical.. .</p>

<p>Husband thinks graduate school financial aid isn't hard to get, especially if D goes to a top tier undergrad program. My thinking is that D should apply to a less competitive undergrad program (one that will jump at the chance to get her and offer merit aid) and preserve some of the limited college fund for grad school. That way, D won't graduate with massive debt. </p>

<p>What do you think? By the way, our son is four years behind our daughter and our incomes make it seem that we don't need need-based aid. Thanks!</p>

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<p>I don't know if its "easier", but I do know that graduate school financial aid tends to be much more merit based than undergraduate aid. The rationale is that institutions at the undergrad level should try and make their educations affordable to most..while at grad schools, the focus is simply on attracting the best students.</p>

3

<p>I think you're correct. Undergrad fin aid is much more likely, although many PhD programs are essentially free. But if you want a law, med or business degree, or a masters, aid is hard to find.</p>

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<p>It depends on the graduate program. I know back in the "dark ages" my graduate education was free because I was had a graduate teaching fellowship. I got free tuition plus a small stipend for living expenses. I had to teach or do some kind of departmental work each semester. In my case, I was a graduate clinical supervisor (for the undergrad students). My grad degree was NOT from a top tier school and that may have actually helped me secure my grad finaid. I had experience in my field and had gotten my undergrad degree with high honors. So...I would think it might depend on the field of study...and the school to which you apply.</p>

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<p>"although many PhD programs are essentially free. " Could you elaborate on that zagat. Would that apply to a psych PhD program? I knw that there is not much available for a PhD program in physical therapy. We have 3 years to worry about it but it's good to collect info.</p>

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<p>bump, this is a great question, please give some more inputs.</p>

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<p>two perspectives
One young woman we know- who majored in pysch at Reed college and did a working semester( in her field) but came back and finished in 4 years is at a 2nd tier university in a Phd program working with someone she is very excited about- I believe her program is pretty much covered.
She interviewed and applied at several schools and she has very strong interpersonal skills.
another young woman we know ( my niece) graduated from Colgate Magna cum laude but really only applied to tier 1 grad programs in linguistics/english. As a result none of the programs offered her any money to study not even a TA position apparently. She is planning on taking a year off and trying again.
Even if you attended a top U with top grades, grad schools are smaller and more focused and also much more competitive. While you are likely to get a TA position to help with school, and you also will be considered an independent student to help with finaid ( most likely), you should broaden your search to include schools that you may have not even considered for undergrad.</p>

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<p>My parents' income also indicated that I didn't need financial aid. My parents' attitude indicated differently!</p>

<p>In undergrad, I was awarded unsubsidized loans that only covered 1/2 of my education (about $5000 a year).</p>

<p>As a grad student, I was awarded subsidized loans that covered everything (about $15000 a year). I believe this was because the powers that be did not factor in my parents' income after I graduated, and I, of course, had no income.</p>

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<p>First of all , when you get to the grad PhD level it depends on what you are majoring in. Students in the hard sciences /math tend to get the money as thoe majors are not as popular as english and social sciences. </p>

<p>In applying the the emphasis is going to be on your major : grades, research, GRE scores, and your personal statement.
Most PhD programs do not take a lot of students in (many times less than 20 so there is firece competition).</p>

<p>When I first started at NYU (I have a M.A. in educational psychology)( I got no financial aid other than loans) Fortunately at the time my employer had a tuition aid plan which had no caps on money, so about 95% of my masters was paid for my employer.</p>

<p>I am returning to NYU in the fall to complete a PhD in counseling.I am also a parent who has a child in college, mortgage, etc. so I think my situation is definitely different from some one going straitght through. I what do notice in my cohort there are quite a few students who are my age who ae career changers (like me). Some students work for the university, while they get tutition remission as an employee benefit their tuition remission is taxable income.</p>

<p>I work a full time job where I get tuition remission from my employer. The tuition remission along with the scholarship I recieved from NYU will mean that I will not have a lot of debt when I graduate.</p>

<p>A lot depends on the school. At the MA level aid may be pretty non existent. At the Phd level it not so much "free' as it is you get a tuition stipend based on a number of hours of work. </p>

<p>NYU TA's, GA's and RA's can be incorporated inot your financial aid package.</p>

<p>Graduate and Teaching Assistantships (GA/TA) are awarded on a competitive basis to new and continuing full time doctoral students. These unionized positions provide up to full-time tuition support plus a generous stipend for a nine-month period for the equivalent of 20 hours of service per week. </p>

<p>The pay is approximately $18,000 per (for the 9 month period) year and between 9 and 12 credits per term (fall and spring) in tuition remission. It does not include housing.<br>
If you are a single person you could probably apply for a RA position to have your housing taken care of. </p>

<p>Also as a graduate student at any schooo you can get stafford loans up to 18,000 per year (8500 subsidized)</p>

<p>hope this helps</p>

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<p>Thanks everyone for all the info. Emeraldkitty, was the psych PhD program for research or clinicl psych. My S wants to go into clinical but we have heard that that is ultracompetitive.</p>

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<p>I think it was clinical- because her internship was clinic based- it was in Maine or someplace at a residential facility.</p>

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<p>We hedged. Kid attending top tier school (will be senior) and seriously considering getting a masters. </p>

<p>When he started in 2002, we had the ability to pay most of his undergrad and definitely nothing of grad school. We ignored the possibility of any stipends in either in undergrad or grad school. Since our credit was good at the time he started school, we got student loans and went into immediate repayment on these loans Remember. we had the ability to not take the loans or to pay off the loans immediately; This in effect postponed his and our decision on the question of grad school, with a cost of less than a $1000 of incurred interest-which is <1% of undergrad tuition, and small price to see the future more clearly. </p>

<p>good luck.</p>

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<p>Thanks Emeraldkity, second tier for clinical psych is a major acomplishment from what I have heard</p>

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<p>This doesn't answer the question but I found these statistics quite interesting. This is an exceprt from " College on Credit: How Borrowers Perceive their Education Debt" Results of the 2002 National Student Loan Survey Dr. Sandy Baum and Marie O'Malley, February 6, 2003</p>

<p>" Seventy percent said student loans were worth incurring for the personal growth provided. However, only 59% agreed that the benefits of incurring student loans are worth it overall, while 26% gave a neutral response to this question. Compared to all previous surveys, this is the lowest percentage to respond positively to this question. . . .</p>

<p>Undergraduate student loan debt has increased significantly since 1997. The average undergraduate debt is $18,900, up 66% from $11,400. The median undergraduate debt rose 74% to $16,500 from $9,500. Those who attended private four-year colleges borrowed most (average $21,200/median $18,400), followed by those who attended public four-year colleges (average $17,100/median $16,200), next were those who attended vocational/technical school (average $15,000/median $11,900), and those borrowing the least attended public two-year institutions (average $8,700/median $7,700). . . . </p>

<p>Students attending graduate school borrow, on average, an additional $31,700 beyond their undergraduate borrowing, an increase of 51% since 1997. The median debt level for graduate school borrowing is $23,700, an increase of 72% since 1997. Those borrowing for professional study, particularly law and medicine, drive up the average graduate level of borrowing. Law and medical student borrowers report an average accumulated debt from all years (undergraduate and graduate study) of $91,700 while the average combined debt for all graduate students is $45,900. . . .</p>

<p>An increased number of borrowers feel more burdened by their education debt, with about a quarter of the borrowers perceiving themselves as having significant problems. Those who say they feel burdened by their education debt increased to 55% from 50% in 1997. Fifty-four percent also say they would borrow less if they had to do it over again, up from 45% in 1997. However, compared to previous surveys, the same low percentage of borrowers - about 15% - say the benefits are just not worth the difficulty of making payments. . . .
"</p>

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<p>We had this discussion at our house. DS will probably major in math; DH believes he will be able to find grad school funding without too much trouble (as did DH, in engineering). DS is headed to an ivy, to which we have received a "token" amount of finaid.</p>