<p>I'm a prospective international student from the UK. I'm thinking about applying mainly to Ivy League universities, but will need financial aid to cover the cost.</p>
<p>I understand that most Ivy League unis have a needs blind policy, but as an only child in a family with one parent working with a gross income of about $180000 per annum and about $250000 in savings, I think the level of financial aid I'd get would not be enough to attend for four years without crippling my parents' savings. (Harvard seems to have shifted its financial aid focus to lower income students at the expense of people in my situation, unsure about the others.)</p>
<p>The financial aid calculators supplied on most unis' websites aren't great for internationals, so could anyone give me some advice as to which Ivy League standard unis would give a good level of financial aid to someone in my financial position. To give an idea of what I'd get in the UK, I'm aiming for Oxford/Cambridge, LSE and UCL, and would have to pay around $30000 a year for 3 years inc. living expenses. I'm unsure if I can get a loan for fees in the US.</p>
<p>With an annual income of $180,000, in a three person household, it is highly unlikely that you will get need based aid at any of the ivy league schools or their peer schools. As a ballpark, your family contribution will be 1/4 to 1/3 of your family’s gross income. At that income level, and with those savings, likely closer to 1/3. This would be in excess of the cost of attending these schools. Therefore you would have NO financial need.</p>
<p>What sort of need based aid were you expecting with that income?</p>
<p>Need blind is an admissions term. This means that the college does NOT consider financial need when reviewing application for admission. It has no bearing on financial aid awards.</p>
<p>Meets full need- this means that a school guarantees to meet full need (as the school calculates it to be) for all accepted students. This is a financial aid term.</p>
<p>There are only six colleges in the U.S. that are BOTH need blind for admissions and guarantee to meet full need for international students. Not all the Ivies even do that.</p>
<p>With an annual income of $180,000 and $250,000 in regular savings, this student would very likely NOT be eligible for need based aid…because he would have no calculated financial need.</p>
<p>Thumper’s right. Highly unlikely the OP will get much if any need based aid. Maybe at Harvard or Princeton. Also, other than those two and Yale, the ivies are not need blind and meet full need for internationals. Only a handful of schools do.</p>
<p>Also, since Ivies do not give out scholarships for merit, that option is out too.</p>
<p>YOu can look for merit money that include international students as that is probably the only way you will get much in the way of funds. There are some top schools that give merit but it’s very competitive. You do have to check and make sure internationals are included in consideration with each school. Duke, Emory, JHU, BC, USC, UNC, Rochester, Fordham are some school that have good merit, and some of those are also pretty danged selective.</p>
<p>“Harvard seems to have shifted its financial aid focus to lower income students at the expense of people in my situation”
Yes. It’s almost like they want help high-achieving students who have not had the same opportunities as their peers of higher income families and could never otherwise afford a first class education. How absolutely awful of them.</p>
<p>Colleges will not view you as having financial need, especially given that amount in savings. Not spending that money on college is viewed as a CHOICE for your family, regardless of what you/your parents actually intend to do with it. Colleges will give their aid to students who don’t have that choice so as already mentioned, you would be better looking for merit money.</p>
<p>Thanks to everyone who replied. I meant ‘meets full need’ rather than needs blind. I’m planning to stay in the UK, but since you can only study one subject in England, I thought it would be good to consider the US too.</p>
<p>I appreciate the suggestions. After checking with my parents, our savings are closer to $350,000, but we also have a ~$210,000 mortgage to pay off. I don’t know if that makes any difference.</p>
<p>fournotetune, don’t get me wrong, I fully support financial aid for people who really need it. In my case I need to justify getting a very similar degree to an English one but at double the cost, and consider the effect that has on my parents’ future. I’ve got to wonder however how families with several children just over the income level for no financial aid can possibly put them through uni at $60k+ a year without being left with no retirement money or even in substantial debt. Is that normal in America?</p>
<p>The balance in your mortgage won’t matter at all. However, any equity your parents have in their home could. Some of those Ivy schools assess primary home equity as an asset. Your $350,000 in savings…if that is regular savings, and not authorized retirement accounts like tax sheltered annuity accounts or individual retirement accounts, will also count towards your family contribution.</p>
<p>With $180,000 in income, your contribution on income alone is likely higher than $50,000. Add in the savings, and you are looking at an additional $19,000 or so depending on how the school counts savings assets. Your family contribution seems like it will be in excess of the cost of attendance.</p>
<p>But I am not a financial aid officer. Apply and see what happens. Just be prepared to walk away if the money you need is not forthcoming.</p>
<p>To answer your question…families with the income you are quoting either can pay the price, or their kids need to hunt for schools with merit aid to soften the blow.</p>
<p>^Or the student attends the state university in their home state/country, which typically is far more affordable than a private university, an out-of-state university or an out-of-country university (just as a university in your home country is more affordable for you).</p>
<p>I’ve got to wonder however how families with several children just over the income level for no financial aid can possibly put them through uni at $60k+ a year without being left with no retirement money or even in substantial debt. Is that normal in America?</p>
<p>Well, “normally” in America, families don’t have your income. And, “normally” in America, students aren’t attending $60k schools.</p>
<p>Most kids in America commute to a local CC and state school.</p>
<p>Manctep, the schools in which you are interested are the Ivy League schools. They are private. Public universities would cost substantially less particularly for those who qualify for state residency. Local public schools, even less since one can commute to school. </p>
<p>Few kids can afford to go to these schools. Those families who have the means often don’t want to pay the price either. My brother is very well to do, and both of his girls went to state schools. He knew that they would not qualify for financial aid and he did not want to pay private tuition. He is no unusual. Then there are those who make it a high priority for their kids to get to go where ever they can get accepted and want most to go. Also, for some of these selective private schools, there is financial aid for those whose families have no choice; they cannot afford the school by the formulas the schools us to define need.</p>
<p>The US system is much misunderstood in the UK. First, most universities in the US don’t charge $60k per year. State universities offer lower fees to their instate students than out of state students. It is possible to pay tuition at some very good schools e.g. UC Berkeley, UT Austin, U Michigan as an instate student for less than $14,658.30 (equivalent of nine thousand pounds which is what Oxford charges). Universities in states with lower populations will often charge much less for a great education e.g. Ohio State (instate tuition equivalent to 6162.58 pounds), directional universities (lower tier ones in each state) will also charge lower tuition rates. The big difference between the US and the UK that I see is that while nine thousand pounds annual tuition for Oxford is a bargain, many lower tier universities have decided that they are also worth nine thousand pounds ($14,658.30) annual tuition. This would be seen as laughable in the US and people would never pay it.</p>
<p>So does that mean that if you had got into an elite private university (Harvard, Yale, MIT etc.) but weren’t going to get financial aid and were reluctant to pay the fees, you would choose your local university instead? Do people who went to a local university have the same job prospects as those who went to elite private ones? </p>
<p>Up until a few years ago in England tuition fees were limited to £3000, so people went to the best place they were admitted to. Now fees at almost all unis are £9000, but I don’t think anyone would turn down Oxford/Cambridge just to save money by staying at home. Maybe the culture of leaving home for university isn’t there as much for you guys.</p>
<p>You have to be able to pay the cost of attendance to attend a college. If you cannot afford the cost (after aid is factored in), you cannot attend the school. Period.</p>
<p>So, yes, there are students who apply to expensive colleges that their families cannot afford. And therefore they cannot matriculate at those schools.</p>
<p>Re: job prospects…do the math. There are 3000 colleges and only a teeny number are the ivy League. Do you think that the rest of the colleges don’t have graduates who are successful? Think about that. There are a small number of fields where the college recruiting and networking will get you an interview (investment banking,for example), but even in those fields there are folks with degrees outside of the Ivy League.</p>
<p>The Ivy League has terrific schools, but you are making it sound like the folks who attend the other 2990 plus colleges are slackers and are going to get nowhere in life. The Ivy League doesn’t have THAT kind of magic. It’s a group of colleges, not a wizards den.</p>
<p>“So does that mean that if you had got into an elite private university (Harvard, Yale, MIT etc.) but weren’t going to get financial aid and were reluctant to pay the fees, you would choose your local university instead?”</p>
<p>Yes, people are often reluctant or unable to pay private school fees and decide instead to attend a state university. There are some extremely talented kids who do this.</p>
<p>“Do people who went to a local university have the same job prospects as those who went to elite private ones?”</p>
<p>There are very few careers in which it would make a difference if you had attended a top tier private school vs a top tier state school. It is probably more important what you study that where you study as far as job prospects are concerned.</p>
<p>“Up until a few years ago in England tuition fees were limited to £3000, so people went to the best place they were admitted to. Now fees at almost all unis are £9000, but I don’t think anyone would turn down Oxford/Cambridge just to save money by staying at home.”</p>
<p>Nobody suggested that. Oxford and Cambridge are a bargain at 9000 pounds. Harvard and the other Ivies are a great deal more expensive unless you get significant financial aid. That is why students look at alternatives. In the US, unlike the UK, there are excellent alternatives at lower cost rather than all the universities charging around 9000 pounds.</p>
<p>“Maybe the culture of leaving home for university isn’t there as much for you guys.”</p>
<p>Not true. In addition to financial aid there is also merit aid and many students take advantage of it to attend college far from home. My son has a full tuition scholarship and will be attending college almost 2,000 miles from home.</p>
<p>Going to those colleges is a luxury and not too many people can afford it. Very well off people where the money is not really an object may be half the class. Middle or upper middle class families that scrimped and saved for most of their children’s lives separate from their own retirement, can often pay if they are eligible for a good chunk of aid, that maybe cuts the cost in half, just to throw a general number out there. Some children will take on the full amount of federal loans available too, about $27,000, some crazy people will go into large debt with parents cosigning. And a percentage of low income high performers who get full ride no loan based on parent’s income.</p>
<p>Money…this student’s family income is $180,000 a year and they have $350,000 in savings. Even generous Colgate is NOT going to give this student need based financial aid.</p>