<p>I love how I make “too much” for assistance but “not enough” to pay off loans. I had a bad experience with community college, wherein they did not process my classes correctly and i had to retake a year in regular college. I think the junior colleges are great for technical trade but not for professional degrees. Working in HR and Training I know from experience that companies worth anything don’t hire people from a community college…the name of the college makes a HUGE difference in hiring. It’s the first thing the HR rep looks at. Purdue or local junior college? No Contest.<br>
I have a good job that pays fairly well, I’m not a CEO but I also didn’t have six kids…that seems to be what gets students help. Yes I’m angry.<br>
and how dare anyone say my son isn’t college material because of some stupid number used for qualification.</p>
<p>Believe us, we get it. It is incredibly frustrating to know the college that is a good match for your child is unaffordable. Happykid went to our local community college for two years because it was what we could pay for. She transferred to a cheap(ish) in-state public U and we are managing to make it all work. </p>
<p>Transferring is challenging. Not every course will transfer, so the student needs to pay careful attention to that issue. Happykid’s U should have accepted her AA as fulfilling all of the Gen Eds, but there has been a mix-up and if she doesn’t get things straightened out, she will have to use one of her precious elective slots for a “missing” Gen Ed requirement. If you and your son find that the only way his education is going to be affordable for your family, is if he goes the CC-transfer route, make sure that he pursues an AA or AS that has an articulation agreement with his target U. Even missing one course required in that agreement can change everything.</p>
<p>Now for a specific question about your HR experience: It has always been my understanding that most applicants only list the university where the bachelor’s degree was awarded. How is it that the reps know that the students spent time at a CC? Are the interviewees listing the CCs as well as the place where they completed their 4-year degrees? Does the application paperwork require that they list every college/university attended? In Happykid’s professional field, a college degree is not necessary. However for students who do need college degrees, information about how to highlight the successful completion of a degree at a reputable college or university is critical. What advice can you give the students who must start out at a CC because of money?</p>
<p>Alexia,</p>
<p>Nobody looks where you started, only where you graduated from. </p>
<p>I have friends who started in community college and I met them in my 3rd and 4th year at the state flagship. They have exactly the same diploma as I do. They are successful, have nice houses, go on vacation, save, etc.</p>
<p>I understand your frustration. While I am in the better financial situation than you, I understand where you are coming from. I can afford to fully pay for my son to go state flagship, but I cannot afford for him to go a private school. Believe me, when I figured out how financial aid works (I thought prestigious privates give great merit aid), I was angry just like you are. But being angry was not productive. So, we came up with alternative plan (and explained it to our son).</p>
<p>The obstacle that you might face, is that you will qualify the first few years for large loans, but not the last few. When this happens, your son will have no degree, but you will have loans.</p>
<p>I would suggest, that you visit community colleges in your area before you make your decision. Also, check if in your state there is an articulation agreement between community colleges and state schools. This will make transfer process easier.</p>
<p>And as an experienced hiring professional I can assure you no one cares from what school you got your undergrad degree unless you want to be an investment banker. It does not matter. The degree is a check box on the app. What counts is what you have done with the degree. References and demonstrated performance count. School does not as long as it is not a for-profit school like Kaplan. Those “degrees” are useless. </p>
<p>OP, the schools assume you pay for college from a combination of present earnings, savings, and loans. The fact that you don’t have savings and can’t take out loans will NOT cause any school to give aid. It does not work that way. </p>
<p>He needs to go to CC for 2 years and transfer. Or take gap year(s) and save for a 4 year school and then go part-time while working. That is reality.</p>
<p>Assuming you even could take about $30,000 of parent PLUS loans over 4 years do you realize the payment is $350/mth for 10 years? And you can’t get rid of these loans by declaring bankruptcy. </p>
<p>This is in addition to the $27k your son would have to take out in his own. Horrible idea.</p>
<p>*Working in HR and Training I know from experience that companies worth anything don’t hire people from a community college…the name of the college makes a HUGE difference in hiring. It’s the first thing the HR rep looks at. Purdue or local junior college? No Contest. *</p>
<p>You’re confusing a VERY important point. Someone who has ONLY gone to a CC so that’s what’s on their resume would be at a disadvantage.</p>
<p>BUT…the person who went to a CC, and THEN transferred to Purdue, would have BS Purdue on their resume. That person wouldn’t be hurt.</p>
<p>I’m surprised that someone who works in HR wouldn’t know this.</p>
<p>*I don’t think $14,000 a year is a massive student loan. That doesn’t seem insurmountable to pay off. *</p>
<p>Uh…YES IT IS. That’s about $60k of debt for four years. That’s massive debt for you to pay off. You’ve already stated that you don’t have a lot left over each month to put towards college costs, therefore you wouldn’t have the money to make the loan payments of about $700 per month for TEN LONG YEARS.</p>
<p>And if you’re expecting your child to pay that off, then it’s too much for a newish grad to pay. After paying rent, car expenses, utilities, food, cell phone, insurance, cable, internet, food, newish grads don’t have that much leftover each month.</p>
<p>How much do you have leftover each month that you can put towards college?</p>
<p>and how dare anyone say my son isn’t college material because of some stupid number used for qualification.</p>
<p>??? Who is saying that? Not qualifying for aid is not saying that a child isn’t college material.</p>
<p>My ex-H attended CC for two years, then transferred to the state flagship for his last two years. He then attended Georgetown Law School. Believe me, no one knows or cares that he spent the first two years at a CC.</p>
<p>Or is there some other college near your house (state directional or something) that is not too expensive where he can start out for a couple of years, then possibly transfer? Then he could live at home.</p>
<p>My ex-H attended CC for two years, then transferred to the state flagship for his last two years. He then attended Georgetown Law School. Believe me, no one knows or cares that he spent the first two years at a CC.</p>
<p>Or is there some other college near your house (state directional or something) that is not too expensive where he can start out for a couple of years, then possibly transfer? Then he could live at home.</p>
<p>Two years of community college makes sense to me. Our local community college even has a program with a private school in the area whereby students who are awarded a full tuition honors scholarship at the community college transfer to the private university under full scholarship. In addition, while at the community college, they get a stipend each semester to help pay for books, living expenses, etc. </p>
<p>Also, I used to work in HR for a Fortune 500 corporation. Not only did we not know whether or not someone started his/her degree at a community college, we also did not give preference to grads of prestigious schools. References, prior work performance, and for recruits just coming out of college, academic performance were all that really mattered. In fact, we recruited engineers from state schools, as well as from MIT, and they all started at the same salary.</p>
<p>Alexia…your comment about companies and hiring practices is a bit off. No, most large, prestigious companies don’t hire students with only CC degrees (although the big insurance companies in this area do). However, many DO hire folks who started off at a community college for two years and then completed their bachelors at a four year college. There is nothing wrong with taking this route, and MANY students do so to save money.</p>
<p>As a former HR person with over 15 years in staffing, development, training, adult education & workplace learning, and tuition reimbursement in a fortune 100 corporation, I have to agree with others that it is not where you start but how you finish. </p>
<p>Between my former and current career I have literally seen thousands of students/ employees through the college process.</p>
<p>I know plenty of people who started in community college got an associates, transferred to a 4 year college and did MBA/Grad/professional school /EMBAs degrees at Ivy League and other Top schools.</p>
<p>Most CC’s have articulation agreements with 4 year schools. I don not know what part of the country that you are in but in NY, every SUNY/CUNY community college has articulation agreements with 4 year schools including some programs at the land grant colleges at Cornell and the CCTOP at NYU (from CUNY CC).</p>
<p>I think that some of the biggest mistakes that people in CC make are:</p>
<p>Not staying on top of what they need to complete the degree requirement</p>
<p>Sometimes taking a vocational major at CC, where that major is not available at the 4 year school</p>
<p>Not paying attention to the courses needed to fulfill the articulation agreements and the schools where they are looking to transfer</p>
<p>Transferring before the complete the AA degree so that the degree and most of the credits can cleanly transfer.</p>
<p>NO matter where your son goes, the most important thing he should do is do well and get a job. Work study/off campus jobs experience is helpful in obtaining internships, which is important in obtaining that first job after graduation.</p>
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<p>no one said anything about your son not being college material. What I did say was based on your making 75k a year, unless your son is at the tippy top of the applicant pool and in a position to get merit money, you are most likely going to be a full payer at your state university, because they don’t have institutional aid to give. This is no knock on your child, it is simply a statement of fact as students fall in to the categories; </p>
<p>the honors program where they are getting merit money</p>
<p>students who have incomes low enough where they are eligible for enough federal aid, state aid and loans, to make it happen (and are watching every cent along the way)</p>
<p>students who are considered economically& academically disadvantaged and are eligible for opportunity programs</p>
<p>Students who may be eligible for some state/federal aid and parents will have to piece together the rest of the money from savings, current income and loans</p>
<p>and students who may not be eligible for any aid other than loans and the parents have to pay or borrow the bulk of the money to make college happen.</p>
<p>Alexia, a lot of colleges are going to dare to say your son isn’t material for their college, depending on where he applies, and even more are going to say he is material only if HE or YOU or someone else pays for him to go there. I’m a 30 year parenting veteran with lots of kids, and sank a lot of hard earned money, both in savings for my kids as well as income and loans, which a number of schools were very happy to take. Give us money? Not so easy, and I had a national athlete, a national award winning performing arts kid, and a kid with near perfect Sat scores in my mix. Yes, we did get a few offers here and there, but the bottom line is we had to pay if we went the way we and the kids wanted, and the amounts were way up there. And my kids screwed up at times, as talented as they may have been. So please, do not look at this as any degradation of your son or your situation personally. I wish I knew what I do now when we made a lot of our decisons, especially with my oldest one. Take a look at the college SIX (not four, because they don’t even bother to give you that number, it’s so low) year competion rates for some of the schools you have in mind, and you’ll see what I mean. And for those who can afford to pay full freight for all six or more years, that’s one thing, but the vast, vast majority of us cannot. </p>
<p>I have one son who is out of college now and living hand to mouth, and I still slip him handouts, and we are lucky, or he is lucky enough that we live nearby that we can help him, as he is trying to get work in his field which is his passion. Thank God he has ZERO student loans, as he did go to a state school, had some merit money when he went. Had he gone to some of those absolutely tantalizing choices he had, where loans would have been required, both we and he would have that monkey on our backs. And I know plenty of such kids and parents who borrowed fully in good faith for their kids and are now backed in the corner by the federal governent and collecton companies after them for loan repayment. THose interest rates for Parent loans, unsubsidized student loans and most private loans for school are usurious, given todays interest rates, and the amounts due will rapidly double wiithout payment made on the principal along with the interest. They will go after your tax refunds, your work checks, your son’s work checks and bank accounts with impunity on these things as we are talking federal government here and they do not get discharged by bankruptcy like ordinary debts or go away. They are life sentences until paid, and your son won’t get a dime of grad school money if he is behind on UG loans. Yeah, some kids are finding this out. Also for private college loans, they get both you AND your son to sign, so the amounts are on BOTH of your credit reports until paid or until BOTH of you are dead. It will hamper your son from buying a house, have to pay high rates for buying a car because of the bad credit rating, and even renting an apartment and certain jobs. A lot of the companies include a credit check in their hiring vetting these days, certainly all of the large “name” companies, so don’t even start about being hampered there. He won’t get hired if he has unpaid obligation on his credit report.</p>
<p>And that brings us to YOUR credit and what you owe right now. You won’t qualify for Parent loans (PLUS) if you are behind in payment on things. You can apply on line and be told immediately. They look at your credit report and though they do not look at the rating, they look at what is past due, and if there is anything there, that is a NO for that loan. If you go to a private lender, they will take both your son and your credit reports, put you both on the line for the amounts, and charge you according to what your credit rating is, which if it is not good, yoor son won’t even qualify for loan without getting another co applicant (it’s really not a co signer, but a full co applicant regardless of how they word that) to apply with him. This is all hard reality, and I didn’t learn this all in a day from some one telling me this like we are informing you. Took me years and the School of Hard Knocks to be able to tell you what I am, and giving you the options and lessons learned by parents who were in the same situation as you.</p>
<p>If you want to be in the situation to get more aid, you can give up your job and your house, but really, all anyone is guaranteed to get with a ZERO EFC is $5550 of PELL money. That’s it, unless your state has some aid too. An auto zero means earning less than about $25K a year and being able to file a short form. You want to live at that level for that additonal $5K? There is that myth that those who are low income have it made with all of their costs covered. Well, maybe not a myth as that $5550 can cover community college, but really that AND the full Stafford LOAN which has to be paid back just like for anyone taking it, is not going to pay for even state sleepaway schools in most situations. In my state, it still isn’t doable for the lowest income families, even with some state money to be thrown in there unless the school itself will come up with money, and none of the state school guarantee to meet full need. So that full ride is elusiive for those who make very little money too, but, yes, your son can take a gap year and you can put yourself into position to get all of those low income goodies for him next year if you really think that it’s a lot of gold glittering out there. I guarantee you , it ain’t.</p>
<p>What you are hearing are mixes of stories. Yes, that straight A, high test score student from a very poor family may get a full ride at a school. If he gets into Harvard, yes, he would likely have to pay very little (but still some money, as even Harvard requires all student to pay for some of their education< though there might be some other venues to get it) and you and your son would have to pay more than he and his family, but that is an extreme example, and your son would do quite well there too. But at most schools, at your income range, you and he have to come up with what they feel you can pay even if those schools are full need met schools. Most schools are not even in that category. Like most all schools. They don’t even bother to meet need, so it doesn’t matter if you need $60K or $20k, they aren’t going to meet it. So don’t think you are likely missiing out on a huge pot of money just because you earn as MUCH as you do. </p>
<p>Right now, you and he are in a better place financially, in that neither of you owe student loans for his education You are on the brink of making a decision as to where you can go from here. If you can do it with the least amount of loans for a year or two, it gives you and him time to get some money, make some plans, find some programs to pay for the rest of the degree, which realistically may take more than 4 years. If he’s got his nose to the grindstone and gets all his IB credits and excels at local college course, there may be some other options for him. Right now, the only person who is willing to invest in a high cost college for him is you, his mother, and you don’t have the money. When he is worth the money to others, it is a whole other story.</p>
<p>I want to address your vent about community colleges by telling you, yes, you are right. Many community colleges are not very good at getting student through with the courses that will best prepare him for a transfer to a 4 year program. Getting the classes needed, much less wanted can be a challenge. My friend, whose daughters went the CC route when her husband lost his job right as they went into their college year, had a rough time with their local CC options. It is truly a growing experience to be able to cherry pick the right courses and get what one can so that one is poised to a 4 year college degree. She would have, as many would have, much preferred to have been able to send her girls directly to a number of four year schools. But she could not. 3 out of 4 of them have college degrees now and are working in jobs that make themself sufficient. One went back to the CC that she so despised and caused so much heartache for some courses that put her in the running for some medical technology jobs, and with that certificate and a 4 year degree from a state school that is not flagship and known at all, she is making 6 figures and isn’t 30 years old. More than a lot of kids from the most selective and expensive colleges are making. And she is not likely to be short on finding any jobs in the next several years either because of that specialized training that she got, not from her 4 year college, but from her CC. Another went into nursing from the CC into a local hospital program, and is also doing very well in spite of this economy. The other one is a CPA and with a major firm, though her colleges are both not name recognizable and include 2 1/2 years at that much despised CC. And the fourth one… not doing badly either, but school is just not for her. Tried taking part time courses in a lot of venues and just couldn’t complete them. And she is the one that they put the most money and loans into to give her every opportunity.</p>
<p>Alexia, I guess what a lot of us are thinking is that if your son can shave his time at the 4-year down to as close to 2 years as possible, it will be affordable for you. Think about it: he could pay those two years with the combined Stafford loans in his name alone (and maybe a pt job for spending $ and books). Anyway, I don’t know his major so I don’t know if that’s totally possible but you might get a good semester shaved off just by having him take the CLEP and AP tests that correspond to his IB tests. Then, do the cc thing, paying out of pocket and banking his loan money, and, in just a year and a half, he can go off to the college from which he wants his degree. Oh, and I know my state flagship gave out scholarships to instate cc students so it’s possible his high cc gpa will help him get merit money. </p>
<p>I also posted a link to the work colleges. Do any of those look like possibilities?</p>