Help! Questions about paying for college...

Paying for College
1

<p>My son is a sophmore in a public HS and consistently about 4.3 GPA on a 4 pt scale (because of AP classes). Average athlete but not college level. Over the years, we have not been able to save for his college because of his younger sib who has special needs and costs a lot in medical care.<br>
I am completely freaked out that we won't be able to find a way to pay for his college and he has HIGH expectations.</p>

<p>He took PSAT as a sophomore and scored 199, which is pretty close to Merit Scholarship level according to his school counselor. So he could potentially hit it next year when he qualifies. Extremely motivated kid, taking extremely rigorous class schedule since 7th grade, including a special math cirriculum that is crazy. He is at a very competitive HS and even when he gets up to a 4.5 or 4.7 next year when that class drops off, he won't be in his top 10%.</p>

<p>Here is my question:
IF he were to get into a great school, (he wants to go to Stanford) which I am feeling doubtful about anyway, what do we do when the EFC is more than a couple thousand dollars? How do you even know what kind of academic scholarships he might qualify for? Even reasonable guesstimates? OR is there no such thing? Our income level is about $120,000 with three kids, so we usually don't qualify for anything because our middle son's expenses don't enter the equation. </p>

<p>My fear is that he will get into a college he really wants to go to and we won't be able to let him go. He has worked so hard over the years and sacrificed so much, that I hate to have that happen. </p>

<p>Any advice at all?</p>

2

<p>You can start by calculating your FAFSA EFC here: <a href=“http://ifap.ed.gov/efcformulaguide/attachments/101310EFCFormulaGuide1112.pdf[/url]”>http://ifap.ed.gov/efcformulaguide/attachments/101310EFCFormulaGuide1112.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Stanford caps home equity and may review sibling medical expenses. Here’s a calculator to run through: [Financial</a> Aid Calculator : Stanford University](<a href=“Financial Aid : Stanford University”>Financial Aid : Stanford University)</p>

<p>School usually give quite a bit of information on their websites regarding financial aid, and more & more are starting to post calculators. You can look for those that include merit aid along with need-based. With your son’s stats he’d be eligible for good merit aid at many colleges.</p>

<p>There are threads here about top colleges that give the most merit aid. There are also many threads about seeking out the best financial and academic fits. You’ve got time and your son is fortunate to have many options.</p>

<p>Enjoy the journey.</p>

3

<p>Thank you! What do you mean by “caps home equity”, of which we have NONE now because the housing market ate all of ours up. That was our only plan for college money 5 years ago, but our home loan is now back up to the market value. We were $35,000 in, and now ZILCH. I guess that could turn around in two years, but I’m not confident it will.</p>

4

<p>what state are you in and do you know how what PSAT cutoff for NMF was this past year?</p>

<p>Oh, everyone seems to be at a competitive HS. Unless it’s some magnet school like Thomas Jefferson in VA (I think) then if he can’t make top 10% of his HS class I think Stanford would be pretty unlikely.</p>

5

<p>First of all when you and your son start looking at schools to put on the list, start with the most affordable options. Decide how much you can spend from earnings, savings and how much you are willing and wisely able to borrow to pay for your’ son’s college keeping the other kids in mind as well as your entire family security. Also figure how much your son has saved, what he can earn this summer and next and be aware fo teh Stafford loans where he can borrow $5500 on his own for freshman year.</p>

<p>This gives you the what your cost limitations are if your son should get NO financial aid or NO merit awards. So what can you afford at that price range? In our case, we came up with $35K as what we as parents could pay each year. Yeah, it is a stretch and includes borrowing. Anything over that my son would have to borrow, earn or pay out of his savings, or get from the school in merit aid since we don’t qualify for much if any financial aid. My son can go to any number of community and state schools in the area and commute without our having to pay anything. He can use his savings, his summer earnings and get a part time job during the school year, and take a Stafford loan and pay for those alternatives himself which is great. He knows it can be done. With some help from us, he can go away to some state schools or commute to some private schools with expensive tuition. There are also some less expensive local schools where he might get some scholarship money as a very attractive candidate. No guarantee but from previous students histories there, it looked pretty good. So he applied to those schools in hopes of getting money and making them affordable.</p>

<p>He then looked at some schools that he could afford with our contribution and applied to some that interested him. He also applied to some schools that were unaffordable but did have some merit money. Long shots for him, but he wanted to give it a try.</p>

<p>Now that the acceptances have arrived, he has the choice of commuting to a couple of schools, going away to some in state schools, and to some schools that offered some merit money and not having to pay anything out of pocket or paying it all out of pocket and not having us pay anything. He also has some schools that we can afford if we all pitch in. Tight but doable. Some because of low sticker price, some because of some merit money. Some he may need to borrow. Then there are the schools that accepted him but have a big fat sticker price of $55K and they aren’t offering a dime to help, so those options are immediately eliminated. </p>

<p>IF you and your son put a list like that together, you’ll have similar choices. Be aware that getting merit money from schools like Stanford is like banking on a lottery ticket. Getting into a school like the most selective schools like Stanford and the like is entering a lottery. Give it a whirl, certainly if his stats make him a candidate, but don’t count on acceptance, and don’t count on any merit. Some financial aid calculators can give you an idea of what kind of financial aid your son might get from such schools, but those schools that meet full need tend to be the most selective schools and getting accepted is no easy thing. You need to apply to a range of selectivities, being aware that a good merit/aid package is more likely at schools where he is a top candidate. Also look for schools that do have a number of merit awards. But most important of all are your financial safeties where he can go even if he does not get money from the schools. Those include in state schools and local programs where he can commute. </p>

<p>If he makes NMF, the award, unless the school comes up with money, is only $2500 which doesn’t do much towards the cost of such schools as Stanford. Look at some schools that seek and pay for NMF scholars. Some of the state schools like U of Oklahoma have such programs. Your own state school might have something. You do need to look for these things. Many of the most selective schools have no compunction rejecting NMF scholars, so getting any money from those for that designation is a dead end.</p>

6

<p>Great advice…now, he is planning on going to law school after getting his bachelors… every adult that has succeeded in the math/logic course he is completing has practially aced their LSAT. Do we just put that whole business aside for now, or how do we plan for the best law school? Also, does his undergrad school of choice affect what law school will look at him?
One more thing…if he miraculously gets into a school like Stanford, and gets little or no help with tuition, do they allow a STUDENT to take out a student loan for $50K per year to attend? (Not saying that is wise, just asking the question).</p>

7

<p>FooMonChew, we are in Nebraska and I may be wrong on his opportunity to hit the top 10%, I just don’t know.</p>

8

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<p>Stanford used to cap home equity at 110% of income. That’s significant here in California. The median single family home price as of April 3 2011 for Palo Alto is $1,635,519. If the median income is $200K, then home equity would be computed as $220,000 which makes a huge difference in reportable assets.</p>

<p>Sounds like this won’t be an issue for you (sorry to hear that).</p>

<p>Not all colleges use high school class rank in their admissions decisions.</p>

<p>Student loans are limited to the Stafford level ($5500 for freshmen); students cannot possibly obtain $50K in loans per year.</p>

9

<p>Gotcha. I have an assistant who says she graduated UNL with $100,000 in student loans, so I am trying to figure out how that is possible.<br>
I know even some Ivy leagues won’t look at class rank. Good thing, because the cheating is rampant among the top 10% here. Remember when kids who cheated in school were the ones who were doing so just to pass? Now the biggest cheaters are the ones shooting for the best colleges. <em>sigh</em></p>

10

<p>OP, if your son is close to the Nebraska cutoff for National Merit, it is worth it for him to do some test prep/practice to increase his chances of making NMSF. It opens up some merit money options–half to full tuition, in some cases. Look at <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/national-merit-scholarships/649276-nmf-scholarships-updated-compilation.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/national-merit-scholarships/649276-nmf-scholarships-updated-compilation.html&lt;/a&gt; but start at the end for the most up-to-date information. There are other schools that award merit money to high stats kids. Start learning about those so that there’s time for your kid to get used to hearing their names. Any student capable of getting into Stanford et al is capable of getting good merit money somewhere.</p>

<p>One of the best things about College Confidential is learning about other schools which you’ve not heard of before. There are lots of great stories here. One girl held up her full-ride offer from the University of Pittsburgh and declared that if U Chicago didn’t offer money, she was headed to Pitt–where she is now. Another girl, admitted to Yale in the days before their generous aid policies, chose a (near?) full ride at Rhodes College in order to save money for med school. She’s now in med school…at Yale. And so on.</p>

11

<p>Chrisdw, the way I look at it is “one step at a time”. Who knows if your son will want to go to law school, med school, grad school? The first step if getting into a college that is a good fit for him that is affordable. He will be much more able to get loans on his own for post ug studies. Right now, all he can get on his own name is the Staffords, pretty much, and only $5500 for freshman year. Some exception, but doubt your son qualifies as it is generally for those in dire financial straits. YOU are expected to take out the loans to pay for your son’s undergrad education with HELOC, PLUS, 401K or co signing a loan that he might be able to get from some bank. As co signer, you are equally on the hook and it goes on your credit as well. Those loans tend to be higher in interest rates and less flexible in repayment terms too. </p>

<p>Law schools do take the difficulty of a school and the coursework into some consideration in admissions, but the absolute biggetst qualifier are the LSATs and the undergrad GPA. A “B” average at an ivy does not a “A” student at State U make. The difference is much , much smaller than that , and some people even argue that there is no difference. I know a number of Columbia law grads who came from no name tiny schools that maybe sent one kids to such law schools in their history simply because the schools are pretty much open enrollment and do not have many kids with such aspirations. These were sharp students in their days as ug, but they are quick to admit that their gpas may not have been as they are had they gone to tougher schools. In their case with their stellar gpas and getting the run of the academics at their colleges, all they had to worry about were LSATs. Did well on them, and into ivy Law they were.</p>

<p>Not that getting into Ivy Law is all gold either. The kids I know making the most right out of law school in the last few years were at the top of their classes in law schools that are not so well known. That class rank and gpa and Law Review count for a lot. Not that I would turn down Harvard Law, but graduating in the middle of the class of a top 50 law school is not as helpful as being top of the class and on Law Review of a lesser known and ranked one.</p>

<p>But your kid has to get through high school and senioritus, the college admissions lottery, the finanicial and merit aid lottery, and then when he gets into a college manage not to tank his first year. A lot of very well prepared, excellent students do, much to the dismay of their egg counting parents. That basket of eggs is very fragile and goes through a lot in those 4 years of college, including hormonal surges, depressions, bad experiences, contraband, sex, broken heart, social hurts, unfairness, homesickness and changing one’s major several times. I wouldn’t be focused so much on law school. Let’s get him up the next rung of the ladder for now and in keeping with the rest of your family financial planning.</p>

12

<p>Law school admissions is much more about the undergrad GPA and the LSAT score than it is about the name on the diploma. If he’s positive about law school, he should go to the cheapest decent college he can find, and save his debt for law school.</p>

<p>Anyone who graduated from UNL with $100,000 in student loans was very badly served by the adults in her life! What a horrible situation to be in!</p>

<p>Some of the colleges that use the CSS Profile to determine eligibility for financial aid will take your second child’s medical expenses into consideration. I don’t know whether or not this is an option with FAFSA only institutions, but you have time to find out those details.</p>

<p>Since you have a very smart kid, but not a lot of ready cash, read through these for ideas:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/848226-important-links-automatic-guaranteed-merit-scholarships.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/848226-important-links-automatic-guaranteed-merit-scholarships.html&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/291483-update-what-i-learned-about-free-ride-scholarships.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/291483-update-what-i-learned-about-free-ride-scholarships.html&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/148852-what-ive-learned-about-full-ride-scholarships.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/148852-what-ive-learned-about-full-ride-scholarships.html&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/211927-institutional-merit-based-scholarships-full-tuition.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/211927-institutional-merit-based-scholarships-full-tuition.html&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/143944-master-list-full-near-full-tuition-merit.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/143944-master-list-full-near-full-tuition-merit.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>There is a certain amount of overlap between the information in these threads, and some of it is out of date, but it gives you a place to start.</p>

<p>Our pay-cash-out-of-pocket limit is much lower than that of cptofthehouse’s, but our family strategy was essentially the same. After identifying that baseline, we told Happykid what it was. She has had no trouble working within our financial limits. The secret to happiness on this front, is being clear in your own head first so that you can be clear with your child.</p>

13

<p>My friend’s daughter graduated from an OOS public school with $90K in debt and a BA with a philosophy major. The “P’s” in the graduation booklet for majors outnumbers all of the rest with Philosphy, Political Science and Psychology. She has been seeking some living wage job for 2 years now while working part time here and there trying to make ends meet, and unable to make her loan commitments. Her mother who co signed the loans is in dire straits too.</p>

<p>How did it happen? Well, family life was not so great, so she just had to get away from home and this school had the loan papers all ready for her to sign and mom to co sign, and they accepted them, giving her the money for those 4 years. Now she’s back home with mom where she should have stayed those 4 years and commuted to a local state school and she wouldn’t have owed a dime, and be just as marketable. Maybe more if she had taken some pre prof courses that many of these local schools excell in offering. It was just imperative at the time to her that she had to go away to college and it was going to be her golden ticket as her college is a pretty good one. The illusions people have about colleges, majors, opportunities are sad when they do not come to realization.</p>

14

<p>Yup, another family here that figured out the baseline. Before you figure out where should you apply and certainly before you worry about graduate school (which by the way a large number of parents do not pay for) you need to figure out how much you can spend. Then “college” shop with that number in mind as well as the student transcript. If you need aid, look closely at schools that are known for good merit aid and if you student has very high gpa/standardized testing all the better. Look for schools that you can afford if all you receive is federal loans and/or grants. Someone said build the list form the bottom up and I do agree with that. When you’ve got a solid foundation then with a kid with great stats you can add the reachy lottery schools that have great aid.</p>

15

<p>I’d say, when application time comes and you’re looking at safeties, both academic and financial, be sure to take a look at the state college system. We’ve told d2 that when the time comes, she definitely needs to seriously consider Wayne State because the COA is, right now anyway, less than our EFC. And our EFC is in the teens. </p>

<p>If she can get into another school for the same money, fine. If not, she’s got an affordable 4 year on the list. </p>

<p>Oh, and the NE regent’s scholarship covers full tuition and is awarded to state residents with a 30 or better on the ACT. Got a friend with an S at UNO at the engineering school on that deal. Maybe UNL needs a higher composite, but the deal’s out there.</p>

16

<p>Nebraska cutoff was 210 this past year, so with a 199 it’s possible for your son to increase score to 210 if he does some practice tests and reviews for it. Increasing score from 199 to 210 isn’t going to be easy. The NMF is a HUGE payoff potential and can create some nice options to cover tuition. </p>

<p>Be glad you don’t live in Mass where my son with a 222 missed the cutoff which was 223. In any other state he would have made NMF. One of his top choice schools gives full tuition for NMF. But he’s not a NMF due to the high cutoff for Mass. So all he got was 20K scholarship for his other stats (high 2300s SAT, #2 in class rank, etc). Although 20K sounds like a lot, when COA is in the mid-50K range it’s not enough. It’s kind of frustrating seeing kids with much lowers stats getting free tuition.</p>

17

<p>My college son made the cut off by one point. Would have missed it the prior and next year. it is a tough go and nothing you can count on getting. But for us it didn’t make much difference because he wasn’t interested in those school that would pay big time for NMF standing All he got was the $2500 which was a drop in the bucket towards his total college costs. T</p>

18

<p>He took PSAT as a sophomore and scored 199, which is pretty close to Merit Scholarship level according to his school counselor.</p>

<p>Nebraska…cut off has been around 210 in recent years…so have him study for that. NMFs are typically the top 1% of the state. </p>

<p>*Our income level is about $120,000 with three kids, so we usually don’t qualify for anything because our middle son’s expenses don’t enter the equation. *</p>

<p>Even with Stanford’s super FA, with that income, they will likely expect you to pay at least $12k per year. You might get some small break IF the uncovered medical bills for your other child is very high…more than say - $6k per year or so. But, even then, you may only get a small compensation. </p>

<p>*
what do we do when the EFC is more than a couple thousand dollars? * </p>

<p>For most schools, you will have to pay a lot more than that. </p>

<p>*How do you even know what kind of academic scholarships he might qualify for? *</p>

<p>Stanford, the ivies, and some other elites do NOT give merit scholarships. </p>

<p>For other schools, merit will largely depend on his SAT and ACT scores and/or National Merit status. </p>

<p>My older son was a NMF and he did accept a big NMF scholarship form a state flagship. </p>

<p>You might as prepare your son that Stanford and other elites are UNLIKELY because they will likely expect more than what your family can pay …AND…those schools are super hard to get accepted to. Believe me, most of their students are straight A, top SAT, NMFs…and they rejected thousands with super stats.</p>

19

<p>Also, does his undergrad school of choice affect what law school will look at him?</p>

<p>Not really…it’s mostly about GPA and LSAT scores. As long as he goes to a “good school,” he’ll be fine.</p>

<p>*One more thing…if he miraculously gets into a school like Stanford, and gets little or no help with tuition, do they allow a STUDENT to take out a student loan for $50K per year to attend? (Not saying that is wise, just asking the question). *</p>

<p>Like you suggested…NOT wise…and NO, a student cannot borrow $50k per year. Students can borrow the following amounts.</p>

<p>5500 frosh
6500 soph
7500 jr
7500 sr</p>

<p>To borrow greater amounts YOU the parents would have to co-sign or borrow yourselves. This is a BAD idea because it sounds like you don’t have the money AND you wouldn’t be able to do so for younger kids while these loans are outstanding.</p>

<p>Again, you have to be the “financial reality check” for your child. Many, many kids “work hard for their top grades,” but that does not mean that a child DESERVES to go to a school that the family cannot afford.</p>

<p>Besides…your son is going to have to borrow about $200k for law school…that will be enough debt right there.</p>

20

<p>*I have an assistant who says she graduated UNL with $100,000 in student loans, so I am trying to figure out how that is possible. *</p>

<p>Before the bank failures, Sallie Mae was allowing kids to borrow up to full cost of attendance…huge mistake…which is why parents have to now co-sign (and qualify to co-sign). </p>

<p>And, the truth is…most parents can’t/won’t co-sign because of the tremendous risk, the negative impact to their credit while the debt is outstanding, and it limits their ability to help younger children.</p>

<p>Also…many parents can’t qualify to co-sign or they can’t qualify after the first year or two because their credit rating is negatively affected each year they co-sign.</p>