Financial Situation. Help please.

Paying for College
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<p>Firstly, I'm sorry for posting what must be a rather redundant topic. I would just really appreciate some advice from people who know what they're doing (I definitely don't). </p>

<p>Here is my situation.</p>

<p>I'm a class-of-2011, Asian/White female living in California. I applied to several Ivies (crossing my fingers), but even if I am accepted my chances of being able to afford tuition are small.</p>

<p>My parents' divorce settlement states that my father must pay for 50% of my college tuition (although I plan on splitting it into thirds - I pay one-third, and each parent pays a third), but a week ago he decided he wouldn't contribute. His defense is that his contributions are the child support checks he sent, although the settlement separates child support from college tuition. </p>

<p>That takes out quite a lot of support. The only way to get him to change his mind is to take him to court, but the expenses of that would make my mother unable to contribute to tuition. </p>

<p>Ironically, my family is above the ceiling for need-based financial aid; I don't qualify for Cal Grant or FAFSA aid, and I'm 99% sure there are no need-based scholarships/grants that I qualify for. My custodial family has a large income, but also a big mortgage and some spending problems (I have tried and tried to fix these problems without success). The child support we received from my father has, instead of going into a savings account, gone into mortgages, car payments, retirement funds, bills, etc. </p>

<p>End result: my father is no longer a contributor, my mother can't afford it (EFC was 50k+), and I'm not sure how to make up the differences. I've talked to a school counselor about it, but he wasn't very helpful. </p>

<p>I'm applying for all the merit-based scholarships I can find, but I'd like to know what I can expect from loans and other sources. I plan on working a part-time job throughout university, and I've saved up a bit on my own, but that's not nearly enough to cover the tuitions I'm facing. I'd just like to know what I can expect from loans, is there any possibility of need-based help, and are there any other resources I'm overlooking? I've been at a loss trying to find out what I should do, and had this anxious-panicky feeling growing.</p>

<p>On a side note, I applied to a few safety schools that have a much friendlier tuition, but I really would MUCH rather attend one of those Ivies.</p>

<p>Kate</p>

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<p>You may have to consider less expensive schools. You're a California resident, and the UC system offers a great education at a reasonable price to in-state residents. UCLA, UCB, and UCSD in particular are very well regarded.</p>

<p>With an EFC of 50K you likely won't be eligible for any federal student loans. Your mom may be eligible for PLUS loans, but she might do better tapping her home equity.</p>

<p>An EFC of 50K usually indicates pretty substantial income or assets-- the financial aid offices won't be sympathetic to the explanation that the income and assets have gone to mortgages, car payments, and other expenditures, since these are choices that were made.</p>

<p>Make sure, though, that you only listed your Mom's (if you've been living with her) income, not your Dad's, on the FAFSA. Mom's income will include any child support or alimony, but Dad's income shouldn't be included.</p>

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<p>I was afraid that'd be the answer. My dad's income wasn't included on the FAFSA, so that 50k EFC is screwdom.</p>

<p>Thanks for the answer, although it wasn't what I wanted to hear. I guess I'll do what I can with merit-based scholarships, and see where I can get with that... if not there are other options. >_<</p>

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<p>Maybe you can try and contact financial aid offices and ask around for your options? You can't afford just sitting back and feeling screwed. Take action, do it yourself, and do it now. You should not be punished for the decisions of your caretaker(s).</p>

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<p>A 50K EFC just on your mom's income indicates a fairly substantial income. You can contact the finaid folks and ask...but truthfully, if that is your EFC based only on your Mom's income (including child support) then it is unlikely you will qualify for need based aid. Is that the case?</p>

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<p>It can't possibly hurt to write a letter to the financial aid offices at your respective colleges. Perhaps even calling and asking to talk to someone, you and your mother. Talking to a real person can certainly help, especially considering Ivies have such HUGE endowments, giving away money isn't a problem for them.</p>

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<p>The Ivies "give away" money to students with demonstrated financial need. This OP has a $50K EFC and that does NOT include any income from his/her father (which the Ivies would consider in finaid calculations since they require the use of the Profile). The financial aid departments would want to hear about any special circumstances contributing to this student's ability to pay...not that the family doesn't want to meet his/her $50k EFC. And colleges do not consider spending issues or consumer debt in their equations either. The OP stated that "My custodial family has a large income, but also a big mortgage and some spending problems (I have tried and tried to fix these problems without success)." This sounds like they have a large income (the custodial folks) and this does NOT include the income of her/his father. Of course, the OP can call these schools and ask. I hope he/she has also completed the Profile.</p>

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<p>just doing the math, if you and your mom wanted to pursue having dad stick to the court ordered 1/2 of college tuition, wouldn't that be worth paying for an attorney to solve? If there is in fact a court order it shouldn't be that complicated to get it enforced; unless your mother doesn't want to stir the pot with your dad, for some other reason.
If there is in fact a clear-cut court order, your mom could even look into representing herself. Many courts have self-help respurces for those who want to do this.</p>

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<p>I'm not a lawyer, but isn't a divorce settlement a legal contract? He can't just "decide" that child-support counts as college support. But you would have to enforce that legally and you'll have to decide if you want to do that.</p>

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<p>UmmKate --- I'm the parent in a similar situation to your mom. My D's father refused to acknowledge his responsibility for 50% of our D's college costs, even though it was in our divorce order to do so. Because it mattered so much in determining where she would be able to go, I weighed the cost of using my attorney to hold him accountable for his share against the cost of not having his contribution. The retainer was $3k, and there's still a lot left. Because the divorce agreeement obviously states the responsibility, we do not even expect it to go to court --- we expect to completely resolve it through our attorneys. The key here is in our Financial Statements, which we exchange. It's the most comprehensive picture of what's available, and any dishonesty puts the bad one in Contempt. Once each party see the other's financial situation, it becomes crystal clear what capability each has to cover or secure college costs. If there's no capability, well, you can't get blood out of a stone. If there is, you just saved yourself 10s of thousands of dollars over the course of 4 years. Well worth the cost of the retainer. We're about to exchange our Financials now, and I can live with whatever we are able to negotiate at the table, for better or worse.</p>

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<p>sorry I posted twice --- it's my very first post and I was confused!</p>

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<p>but wouldn't child support end at 18?</p>

<p>Once the "child" is 18, it ends, if it continues after that- it is used for college, generally.</p>

<p>after all, if she is away at college- her familys household won't have any expenses related to her care- it seems that if her custodial family is using money that is meant for her care- for their expenses, like retirement & and car payments, that her dad needs to go back to court and have that noted
( if I was her dad I would also use the opportunity to make arrangement to pay directly to the school or his daughter, not his exwife to buy a car- it seems like those decisions by the custodial family to misspend, should have voided his obligation)</p>

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<p>Child support continues as per the Divorce Order, which is typically until the child is emancipated, which may well carry though 4 years of college. In our state, unless stated otherwise, it is independent of college cost support, and used with custodial parent discretion. Many child-related costs do, in fact, continue through the college years, including teenager-as-principal-operator car insurance, cell phone bills, clothes, health care and medicine, summer housing and food, that students who only work part-time can't come close to paying because they are already trying to pay for part of their own college educations. This assumes the custodial parent actually received the support and didn't have to go into debt to make up for nonpayments. That's not always the case. There is clearly a moral responsibility on the part of the support-receiving parent to see to it that all of the money is spent or saved in the student's interest. Unfortunately, one can't enforce morality, and there are differring opinions as to what constitutes legitimate 'student's interest.' I would argue that any student's essential needs, such as direct food, housing, health care, and insurance are legitimate. And that 5-star dinners, over-the-top vacations, gratuitous cosmetic surgery, and expensive cars are not.</p>

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<p>Custodial parents also have a moral and legal obligation to provide for childs expenses- not to use the childs money for their own use.
I still would have the court recalculate the payments, since the mother and her husband are misusing it, and this is from the daughters accounting</p>

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<p>If it is truly court ordered and your dad has the resources then pursue it in court. I am in the same situation. I do not know how the California laws work but in Illinois if the absent parent is gainfully employed the courts will garnish the wages for tuition and have the check sent either to the school or the custodial parent. I was hesitant to spend the money on the attorney but since you are actually only enforcing an agreement already in place the cost was minimal. Unless your father has had a substantial change in his financial situation most judges will enforce the order. ALso, check with your local bar association sometime they have lawyers who will do this at a reduced rate or pro bono. I actually represented myself and it was not difficult. Judge, the court order entered in 1989 states he is responsible for 50% of the cost, he is refusing. The judge asked him why, he gave a sob story, the judge said too bad and ordered that he pay. It was fairly simple and painless. Due to the fact he was obviously not doing so willingly his portion (up to the legal 25% max) will be taken directly from his paycheck.</p>

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<p>regardless of whether her parents want to pay for an IVY or not, I would also strongly suggest that if she has the stats to be admitted to an IVY, she also is going to be very competitive for other top schools that also offer merit aid.</p>

<p>Find the schools that you are interested in attending, including some you can afford with zero aid, and only then, add a few of the uber competitive schools ;)</p>

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<p>Emerald --- I replied but somehow my post got blown away on sending. Anyway, yes, I agree there is also a legal obligation if we are talking the essential child's expenses. The question is the real attribution of support payments toward the mom's retirement account, car payments, and other not-directly and maybe not indirectly child's interests. How was this determined? Because the mom made any contributions to her retirement plan? Because she made car payments? Child support is to go first to raising the child and second, to what is in the child's interests. It's not expected that there will be a big account somewhere of accumulated support payments, available for college costs. That defeats the whole purpose of child support in the first place.</p>

<p>Child support can and should be revisited when either party's financial circumstances change substantially. It's not clear that that has happenned here. Indeed, if the custodial parent has proven negligent in managing the child's financial interests, then the noncustodial parent should work directly with the college, if possible, to ensure his share makes it to the school.</p>

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<p>I don't know about all the ins and outs of child support-
I know that my brother paid minimal child support & even had his support payments reduced when he "adopted" his nephew so that he could immigrate to this country- but his support ended at 18.</p>

<p>Now- I may be figuring this wrong- but it seems that having child support after 18 would kick the EFC up even higher.( for private schools)
This is how I figure it-
say the dad pays out $20,000 a year for child support- that would be from income that he would have to report on taxes and on PROFILE.
The mother, would again have to report that same $20,000 as income, on both taxes and PROFILE.
So wouldn't it be counted twice as opposed to if he makes an informal committment to paying for expenses after 18?</p>

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<p>I don't think we are talking about having "child support" continue past 18. we are talking about the dad doing what the original court order specified, and that is to contribute half of college expenses. in CA most child support ends at 18; people can negotiate whatever they want, but that is pretty standard.</p>

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<p>We <em>are</em> talking about child support through the college years.</p>

<p>Emerald, FAFSA uses the most-live-with-in-the-past-12-months parent income and student income. Fed tax is paid on the cs by the non-custodial parent. It is not claimed as income on the custodial parent tax form.</p>