Finding a kinder & gentler engineering school?

College Majors Engineering Majors
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<p>I’ve been reading this forum and I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone ask this question.</p>

<p>My hs kid definitely wants to be an engineer. And he knows what engineering is…. He is in his 3rd year of a program (Project Leads the Way) which exposes HS kids to engineering. He’s taken classes like digital electronics and aerospace engineering. He has the aptitude. Science and math ACT scores=30. He’s preparing now by taking Chem, Physics and pre-calculus in HS. But he isn’t studying a lot so his grades are only so-so (gpa=3.0). If this behavior is any indicator of his future behavior, I’m worried he will be snowed under by the work load of his freshman year of college. </p>

<p>I know he’ll have to work hard in college if he wants an engineering degree….but what should we look for in an engineering school that offers him that best change of graduating? A program that is less hard-driving academically and more focused on retention? How do I find those schools? A more hands-on curriculum seems like it would be better. Is there such a thing? Or are all the engineering programs basically the same? What type of academic support is ultimately helpful? Anything else we should be considering?</p>

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<p>ColoradoMom - Funny, I am looking for similar information today after looking at 3 schools this week for son#2. Three years ago we looked at a completely different set of colleges for my older son, ones I had no trouble understanding, but I am feeling a bit flummoxed by the engineering programs, which son #2 is interested in. There are the obvious elite schools like MIT, that worry me re: stress and competition, the PI schools that don't offer a traditional college experience (few girls, it seems, and lack of broader interests), and then there are the schools with small engineering programs, that perhaps don't result in much recruitment recognition or even a solid program? Help, I need a crash course in understanding the world of engineering colleges and admissions! My son would also do better with a kinder, gentler atmosphere but more importantly, I want him to grow as a person in many ways, not just engineering (?) but maybe I am just being a Mom. It seems that the best schools are indeed the largest schools - thoughts??</p>

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<p>Rileydog - No matter what you hear, the "elite" engineering schools that have reputations for being competitive and unforgiving are not trying to fail kids out. Seriously, before coming here (Cornell), I'd hear things about how competitive it was, how hard everything was, how I wouldn't have any time for anything but work, etc etc. That's not true at all. Premed kids are competitive, not engineers. I don't know anyone who doesn't try his/her hardest to help someone that asks them for help. Most people work on problem sets together, study together, work on labs and projects together. No one just goes to their room after class, sits down by themselves with their door locked, refusing to work with their hallmates or help people with questions that they could answer. </p>

<p>Professors care, too. Even in large intro classes with B- bell curves, that curve is not set in stone. If a student goes to office hours, tries hard, and ends up on the curve for a B-, the professor could knock that up to a B+. It's all about effort. And if everyone gets 90s on the tests and HWs in that class normally curved to a B-, the professor can change that curve to a B+. From what I've found, the curve that supposedly causes so much competition is really there to help you, not hurt you. </p>

<p>ColoradoMom, I can actually understand exactly the position your son is in. My GPA my first two years in high school was ~3.1, and through some combination of a couple of teachers having a profound influence on my work ethic and more interesting classes, I got a 4.0 for the next two years, and got into a top 10 or 15 engineering school. Believe me - if you had told me as a freshman or sophomore that I'd even had a chance at a school of that caliber, I would have just laughed. I think what sparked my sudden change in attitude was simply a couple of teachers that were really interesting, genuinely nice people (a Physics teacher and AP US History teacher) that simply demanded you do your work. And they'd make it interesting enough that I felt compelled to do it, and were nice enough I felt like slacking off would be letting them down (in a way). Sounds strange, but something happened that got me moving and now I study more than anyone I know.</p>

<p>Maybe try to gently let your son on to what is really at stake. There are people that would KILL to have the aptitude to be able to get top grades and into a top school. I have friends that could easily have been going to MIT if they'd just put in more work in high school, instead ending up at decent schools but nothing to write home about, and it really does kill me to see that. People who were taking multivariable calculus in 9th grade but as soon as they got older and their parents stopped bugging them decided to just basically cruise through the rest of high school and go to an average school for an average business degree.</p>

<p>When I say gently hint at what's at stake, I don't mean forcing him to get better grades. My parents never once questioned my work ethic or my grades - he's got to do it on his own. Just maybe let him know he's got a chance at top-20 programs based on his test scores, but that he really doesn't if his grades don't improve. Or even that he has what it takes to graduate from any decent engineering program, just that he'll have to work hard to do so.</p>

<p>I probably don't know what I'm talking about above, I'm definitely no parent (thankfully haha) but I was in the exact same situation as your son and somehow kicked myself in the ass and got rolling. So take that with a grain of salt and please don't feel I am judging you or your son.</p>

<p>But anyway, to the question: I don't think you are going to find an engineering program to hold the hands of someone who isn't willing to put in the effort. I mean, the school can offer support - advisors, helpful professors, great TAs, plenty of hands-on opportunities, smaller classes - but ultimately the student has to be motivated and no advisor, professor, or TA is going to feel compelled to explain things to a student who refuses to spend necessary time reading course material or working out problem sets. It's just human nature. If someone puts in the effort but struggles, that's an entirely different scenario that people who maybe don't have the aptitude but put in the work will find themselves in.</p>

<p>So anyway, you can find a caring and supportive atmosphere at plenty of places, but I've never heard of a place that holds unmotivated students' hands through to their degree.</p>

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<p>Thanks for your reply, Live. Good advice. Especially that this is up to him. I’ll gently suggest that he read your post. Although believe me, if I could pay for a special hand-holding option I would. </p>

<p>He will need to do the work if he wants this degree. And advocate for himself when he needs help. Although he has the brains to get into one of the country’s top programs I’m thinking his maturity isn’t there yet to compete at that level. He’s young. I’d just like to stack the deck in his favor by finding a good school that provides him with as much support as possible. And dare I say, is less competitive. I think an engineering dorm and study groups are good (lots of people in the same boat, so to speak). So how do we find the caring and supportive engineering schools?</p>

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<p>Welcome to my life moms!!! LOL</p>

<p>Maybe look back on some of my posts where we visited about a million engineering schools...and now my kid can't decide. </p>

<p>Still - I look at the engineering schools, with all those boys, and I just know that the majority of them didn't pour it on in high school. Plus, you might be surprised at how much they "grow up" between junior and senior year.</p>

<p>BTW - I liked the engineering program at U Pittsburgh. It was small and seemed quite nice. My son didn't like it. Also, consider schools with strong co-op programs because for some of these kids working 6 months now and then is a very welcome break from school. </p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>Rileymom, Some thoughts on a kinder school. I sent my first son off to college in August '06. We feel college is more than getting a degree. We believe these years are critical formative years. While we can't control his choices we can direct him to a place that offers more than classes. We decided on a Jesuit school where focus is placed on social justice, caring for others, and where there is a focus on God. This is not to make him into a missionary but having him around others whose families felt the same way has been a good thing.</p>

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<p>Rileydog and ColoradoM0m, I combined you into one, hence Rileymom in my post! Sorry about that.</p>

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<p>You might try checking the retention rate at different schools. I would equate higher retention rates with more satisfaction and success.</p>

<p>FWIW, Pitt seems to have a supportive engineering program within the larger university. Not cut-throat competitive, lots of support systems, special freshman mentoring, many non-engineering options, etc. Son is very happy there.</p>

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<p>Thanks all for your responses. ColoradoMom, we just toured WPI in Worcester, MA on Friday. I think this is the kind of environment you might be looking for. Each student takes 3 courses for 7 weeks, over four sessions (known as A, B, C, D session). The classes meet 4/5 days/week therefore they are intensively involved in 3 subjects and have to keep up with homework, problem sets, etc as class meets every day except for one. The class sizes are small and there is a strong focus on projects as well. The projects are not for the sake of doing projects. WPI is actually hired by companies to do work and students participate in teams to do actual work. When we were thre we saw students building cars, we saw a small nuclear reactor, etc. The environment seemed very supportive. The negative in my son's view was the lack of females. The program is 75% male. However, there are 13 other colleges in the area and the tour guide said that there was a lot of "piggybacking" for social events. My two nephews went to this school and both loved it. I don't think it is a top engineering school but 95% have jobs or go on to grad school. Our visit prompted some of my questions - it seems that some engineering schools are very academic and some very applied???</p>

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<p>Wyomom - Interesting comments. We looked at Villanova earlier this week and I felt that it would provide that type of environment plus it has a strong engineering department. My son liked it very much but I do not know how hard it is to get into the program there.</p>

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<p>I go to Virginia Tech, and the engineering department here is fantastic. After the first year intro courses (which many skip out of anyway), all the classes are small. The professors are fantastic, and care about the students. The university is well connected with employers, and has an excelent reputation nationally. </p>

<p>Please do not let recent events discount my school. It really is a great place, and a great school.</p>

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<p>^The Brown Bomber^ My feelings toward VT are actually to know more about the school and be greatly impressed by all of you there. What a lovely and supportive community you are. I doubt very many people would allow this terrible incident to cast a bad light over VT. What happened there could occur anywhere. Thoughtful people will surely agree, there but for the grace of God go I.</p>

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A program that is less hard-driving academically and more focused on retention? How do I find those schools?

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There are the obvious elite schools like MIT, that worry me re: stress and competition, the PI schools that don't offer a traditional college experience (few girls, it seems, and lack of broader interests),

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<p>If you're talking about an engineering school with superstar name recognition and broad offerings that is also relatively relaxed and offers high retention rates (relative to other engineering programs), a certain school in Palo Alto immediately comes to mind.</p>

<p>Of course, the catch is that you have to get in, and that's clearly no walk in the park.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
If you're talking about an engineering school with superstar name recognition and broad offerings that is also relatively relaxed and offers high retention rates (relative to other engineering programs), a certain school in Palo Alto immediately comes to mind.</p>

<p>Of course, the catch is that you have to get in, and that's clearly no walk in the park.

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<p>I was about to suggest the same school.</p>

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<p>Thanks everyone...I'm writing up a list and will look into each school.</p>

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<p>ColoradoM0m, I sent you a PM.</p>

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<p>Hey ColoradoM0m,</p>

<pre><code> I would recommend you consider my school, University of Arkansas - Fort Smith. Our program is focused on student learning and we make retention a top priority. All of our engineering professors carry cell phones so students can call us with questions. And we all have 20 office hours per week so there's always help. We tutor students in every subject. All of this work has led to very high rentention rates. Plus our average class size is 15 students.

In general, I would focus on a school that focuses on student learning. Smaller classes and professors more dedicated to teaching make a big difference.
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