Finding an intellectual college for a clueless 17-year-old

While I think the current list is too long I think 10-12 schools is too short given that the OP is international. I would suggest about 16, 20 at most. OP seems prepared to begin the work, and not all school will need supplementary essays.

Many of the liberal arts colleges are in pretty rural areas. Hamilton when I visited, was definitely pretty out there and we passed some ranches on the way there. Though I haven’t visited, I’ve heard similar about Grinnell, Kenyon, and some others.

Edit: I just read your revised thoughts, but I think visiting is still crucial to see if you will like it.

That is a big list, but I like that you seem to have stuck to your guns and the visits gave you some real-world experience to add to all the research you’ve done.

You can apply to as many schools as time and money (and mental stamina…) allow, but make sure you do one thing:

Apply to a safety.

Looking at your big list on the previous page, I see two potential safeties/low matches that you are still considering: Lawrence and NCF. I would apply to both, honestly. Among the rest, apply to your heart’s content. Edit: Whitman and Holyoke might approach low matchhood, but – not safeties. The two schools closest to being safe for you are likely NCF and Lawrence, which is close to the Packers. Wink wink. :slight_smile:

Regarding SCEA vs. ED: ED binds you; SCEA/REA does not. So only apply ED if a school is a very clear favorite.

You have 14 schools that you’re definitely applying to! I would stop searching and move on to the application phase.

Have you perfected your common application, so you can hit the ground running when the supplemental prompts are published later this summer?

If so, is your entire application package a cohesive narrative that gives an admission officer a clear, concise and powerful picture of you in a 5 minute read? Unfortunately, many applications are a haphazard, confusing disgorge of the applicant’s accomplishments.

Have you briefed your recommenders?

You have some challenging applications ahead of you. Have you looked at the Princeton and U Chicago’s past prompts?

If you make another visit to states, I would use your valuable time not to visit more colleges, but to further demonstrate interest at your current matches/safties? Make sure you interview on campus wherever suggested by the colleges? Of course, this doesn’t apply to most of the reaches on your list.

Best of luck!

Sorry for the confusion: NCF is the New College of Florida.

My maximum is 20, as set by the common app. I was originally thinking around 15/16/17 but I know myself and as deadlines draw closer I’ll panic and fill in more applications so might as well take my time with the 20 I know I’ll inevitably do. Also Grinnell, Kenyon, Wesleyan, and NCF don’t require any essays which makes 20 a little less daunting.

@momrath I was under the impression that there was no advantage to applying SCEA. Is that not true? If you do get a boost, I’ll go Princeton REA as I can still do NCF EA.

@mamaedefamilia Apologies if it wasn’t clear; I never said I didn’t like Swarthmore, just that I didn’t like it quite as much as I thought I would since on paper it seems almost 100% my type. But I would still be thrilled to go there.

I love the Columbia Core, as well as Yale’s Directed Studies and Princeton’s Hume Sequence. But at a school without something like that I would just take similar classes to those that make up a great books curriculum, although it’s not quite the same. Between a core like UChicago’s and Brown’s open curriculum, I would have to give the slight nod to the open curriculum, but it’s only slight and not something I’m really giving much weight to. The only sequence (I think that’s the right word) I wouldn’t choose to take classes in at someone with an open curriculum is mathematics, and one or two maths/CS/stat classes are something I can live with, and maybe a chance to step outside my comfort zone. But I’ll be taking humanities, social science, foreign language, arts, biological science, and natural science classes wherever I go so it doesn’t matter too much to me.

I did look at Oberlin and, while I liked it and am still keeping in my mind, I got the impression that the school, similarly to Vassar, had a very artsy/crunchy (I hate that word but I can’t think of a better one) feel to it, and I’m as much a music/art/theatre kid as I am a STEM kid. And besides recycling and using public transport as much as I can, I don’t do as much as I should to help the environment - I wish I had the willpower to go vegetarian or vegan but I just don’t. I know I’m generalising way too much to say that the whole student body is artsy/crunchy, but I got the impression that it was one of the dominant tones on campus. If I’m wrong or it won’t matter if I’m not artsy/crunchy (still hate that word), please let me know, since there were some things about Oberlin I really did like.

Actually, if I was given the choice between the two, I’m not sure which one I would pick. If I had to, right now, I think I would go with Smith, but that could change tomorrow. The only reason Mount Holyoke is on the ‘definitely’ list and Smith the ‘most likely’ list is simply because I feel like my chances at Mount Holyoke are higher because they have lower average test scores, a higher acceptance rate, and consider demonstrated interest more which I have genuinely shown a lot of.

I think I’m just going to apply to NCF. I like Lawrence, but I really like NCF and there is no way I would choose Lawrence over NCF. Or is it a mistake applying to only one definite safety? Although, I know it’s not pretty much guaranteed, I do feel fairly confident about Mount Holyoke. They seem like a school that take fit and demonstrated interest quite seriously, and my interview felt so natural and was really interesting. I’ve also been emailing a professor in the philosophy department concerning some of my questions, who put me in touch with professors in the English and Classics departments. Don’t worry, I know it’s not a definite safety, I do feel confident about the school as I think my genuine interest definitely shows, but someone feel free to let me know if they think I’m being overambitious.

I’ve briefed one of my philosophy teachers but I’m yet to decide on who to ask for my other - I’m leaving it late, I know. I still can’t decide between one of my junior year English lit teachers, my sophomore year biology teacher, or my freshman and sophomore year physics teacher. Any thoughts? I need to ask one of them preferably by the end of the week.

No, not yet. I’ve got several complete drafts but none I’m happy with so I’m still in the editing stage. Every student at my school has meetings with our version of a guidance counsellor in late Sept and early Oct to help finish personal statements (the UK version of the common app essay) but my GC has no experience whatsoever with common app essays (I’m actually a little worried she’ll try to make it more personal statement-y than common app essay-y) and I have no friends or parents to really help me besides offering moral support so I feel a bit like I’m writing it blind. Any advice and tips would be highly appreciated!

A few good resources on writing the ‘slice-of-life’ personal statement:

http://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/my_college_essay

Scroll down to the Essay section of this book:

https://books.google.com/books?id=5DH7a7ECTRQC&pg=PT100&lpg=PT100&dq=Michele+A.+Hern%C3%A1ndez.+Finally,+the+last+major+section&source=bl&ots=-MmeJduEtu&sig=vrvS8NGKsD6KMxsgCXXDx2dN8AI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=2qX0U-KuIJG2yASluIGQBw&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Michele%20A.%20Hern%C3%A1ndez.%20Finally%2C%20the%20last%20major%20section&f=false

READ THIS BOOK:

On Writing the College Application Essay by Harry Bauld—formerly an admissions officer at Brown University and assistant director of admissions at Columbia University

http://www.amazon.com/Writing-College-Application-Essay-Acceptance/dp/0064637220

“I was under the impression that there was no advantage to applying SCEA. Is that not true? If you do get a boost, I’ll go Princeton REA as I can still do NCF EA.”

There is a slight – but not tremendous – advantage to applying SCEA/REA to a school like Princeton. The real boost comes from ED, but you don’t sound anywhere close to being really to select one particular school over any of the others, so I would not advise you to do that.

NCF is a great safety for you. (It was a safety for my daughter, who was also looking for a strong humanities Great Books-type program and who had many of the same schools on her list as you.)

Are you considering any west coast schools? Reed, of course, has that “intellectual vibe” you crave and – while most often touted for its STEM and CS programs – Stanford is an incredible school with some superb humanities and arts programming and stellar faculty. They have with a very strong humanities Directed Studies-type humanities core available, called Structured Liberal Education (SLE). Satisfying both the writing requirement and a few of the general education requirements, SLE comprises 8 units (the equivalent of two four-unit courses) of each of three quarters of your freshman year.

My daughter, now an Art History major and Medieval Studies minor, is over the moon with the education and support she is receiving at Stanford and is thankful each and every day that she chose it over Harvard, Yale, Princeton, UChicago, etc., etc.

I know you’ve already got a tremendous number of schools in your radar, but I figured it couldn’t hurt to throw one or two more into the mix as they might well have something to offer.

Also, please know that there are a number of trusted readers/editors here on CC (present company included). I’d be happy to give you feedback if you pm me. Never – and I mean NEVER – post anything publicly.

Make sure your recommenders are recent teachers – most schools like to see Junior year teachers or teachers who have had you in multiple courses.

@astute12 That’s where I’m conflicted. Should I go for a recent teacher I had this year or a STEM teacher so I have both STEM and humanities?

i find this so funny because i was the exact same way. when i first started looking at colleges, i abhorred the thought of ending up at a school not located in a city. however, i grew to appreciate rural colleges because 1. they’re (usually) surrounded by a lot of green (i’m a nature freak), 2. the towns generally remind me of my home, and 3. it’s easier to meet people. a person can end up being very lonely in a city like new york or los angeles. my process of thinking was i’ll save the big cities for when i attend graduate school and when i’m more mature. :slight_smile:

(p.s. i’m so, so happy to see schools like grinnell, kenyon, and carleton are still on your list! i’ve made an effort to follow this thread for a while.)

You should have two recommenders – one from STEM and one humanities would be great. Getting your English Lit prof is good, since they have you now, I assume? Are you in a current STEM class? It’s ok if the teacher had you as a sophomore, but it is better if you can get a current teacher. Also give your recommenders any information about yourself that they might find useful in writing their letters.

@astute12 I’m doing A-Levels right now, which means I only do three subjects - English lit, history, and philosophy - and have two teachers for each subjects. But last year I did 10 GCSEs and had teachers for maths and all three sciences. I already asked one of my philosophy teachers for a rec but I’m not sure who to ask for the second one as I’m not sure what’s more important: having a STEM teacher or having a junior year teacher.

Would SCEA provide an admissions boost to you specifically? I can’t say definitively because I don’t know how many SCEA applications Princeton receives from non-resident aliens. (Perhaps Princeton would tell you if you asked them directly.)

For the class of 2022 Princeton’s overall SCEA admit rate was about 15%, compared to 5.5% under RD. Common belief is that the majority of early admits are legacies and athletes, but I don’t see that those categories would apply to most internationals applying SCEA. Under SCEA Princeton admitted 88 internationals which I would view as a positive.

I believe that the decision to apply ED or SCEA is both strategic and emotional. Strategically, if you are admitted under SCEA, great, one and done. If you are deferred to RD consideration, then yes, you have closed some EA doors, but your chance of RD admissions remains the same. If you are denied under SCEA, then you have the opportunity to choose EDII or to recalibrate your application list.

The emotional decision is much more personal. All I can suggest is that you project into the future and ask yourself: In the event of an RD rejection from Princeton would I regret not applying SCEA? You have some time before you need to make this decision. Additional visits in September/October may move you in one direction or another.

For letters of recommendation, I would go with your junior year philosophy and English teachers. To me, choosing recommenders with whom you’ve had recent interaction in subjects that you’ve identified as your prime areas of interest is more important than providing one from humanities/social sciences and one from math/science. Your grades and scores will reflect your mastery of math and science. You want your LORs to highlight more subjective characteristics like intellectual curiosity, participation, enthusiasm and insight.

If Princeton is clearly your first choice, why not apply SCEA? At least you’ll know this year if you’re in or not. Your application will need to really grab the committee’s attention to get an admit to Princeton. I’d spend a lot of time on it - and not spread yourself too thin visiting and applying to too many highly competitive schools.

However, I do think you’d be forgoing an admissions advantage at the most competitive ED schools on your definite list - Brown, Columbia and Swarthmore. You could be closing those doors.

For example in 2017, Columbia seated 43% of their class from a mere 3,126 ED applicants. On the other hand, in Columbia’s 2017 RD round, over 30,000 applicants had to compete for the remaining slots - and those applicants included many of the HYP and Stanford SCEA applicants who you would not have been competing against in the ED round.
Swarthmore’s ED rate was 34% vs 13% RD!

I wouldn’t sweat too much the schools below Swat on your definite list. Assuming you write a decent application, your stats are strong enough to power you in to at least half of those schools, if not more, IMO. But, above Swat on your definite list, you’ll need exceptionally well-written and focused applications which takes a lot of breathing space and time. You should allow time to visit, research, correspond, write, step away for a few days, review, edit, discuss with someone else (like an English teacher) and then repeat.

Best of luck!

Not true for Swarthmore. Like many LACs, it has a second round early decision deadline (EDII) in January.

I agree with @momrath regarding letters of recommendation.

I second (well, third, at this point) @momrath and @astute12’s comments about recommenders. esp. given your intellectual interests and fact that your junior year coursework is in the humanities. You should definitely go with your English and philosophy teachers; you don’t need a rec from a STEM teacher. Where you might want to show mastery in both STEM and humanities might be in standardized testing if you are planning to take any SAT subject tests. For recommenders, stick to people that can attend to your intellectual curiosity and passion for learning.

@OutOfKantrol - Just checking in to see where you are in the process, whether your list has changed/evolved, etc. How’s everything going?

@OutOfKantrol How’s it going?? Do you have a decision, or are you still waiting on RD? Would love to know the outcome!

I know I was thinking the same thing! After reading this I was certain she’d get the full tuition scholarship at Mt Holyoke if she applied. This was such an interesting thread! @OutOfKantrol Come back and let us know what happened!