Finding an intellectual college for a clueless 17-year-old

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I just wanted to thank everyone immensely for all the help and advice I was given last year and to apologise for disappearing on everyone. I decided to get off of College Confidential last summer; I was driving myself crazy reading all those Chance Me threads and it was becoming really toxic to the point were it was giving me anxiety, so I decided that the best thing would be just to focus on my applcations and get off the website. I thought about coming back once all my applications were in but I figured everyone had forgotton about this thread so I was reallt chuffed when I got those CC notifications.

I should also let you guys know that I took most of the LACs on my list off. I visited Reed back in late September and while the visit was illuminating, it was…well, it was a disaster, to put it simply. I decided to focus on going off alone and talking to students which I regretted not doing as much on my East Coast tour and I found very valuable when I visited Stanford. Glad I did; saved my parents an appliction fee. I knew that virtually all colleges were liberal and I was fine with that - difference of opinion has never bothered me - but it clearly bothered some people at Reed. When I read stories about conservative speakers banned from college campuses, I always figured it was just a very small vocal minority protesting. Call me naive but I assumed that a school and a student body that prided itself on its intellectual discussion would welcome political discourse from both the left and right wing but the students I spoke to proved me wrong. I was having a really interesting conversation at the dining hall with a girl about some of the books in HUM 110 and we got onto talking about abortion where I brought up my pro-life point of view and she quietly told me that this wasn’t Bob Jones and I should keep quiet with that kind of misogyny on campus. Another girl was proudly telling me about how Reed houses transgenders based on how they identify and how the women’s floor includes transgender women and non-binary people who identify as more feminine than masculine. I asked if there was campus housing for people who weren’t comfortable with that and had more traditional views on gender. She called me a Nazi.

Anyways, that spurred me to take off some of the more uber liberal colleges like Smith and Oberlin. I also figured that at larger universities there would be more conservative students as well as more courses in my areas of interest which is something that had been concerning me. So I ended up taking most of the LACs off my list either for being too liberal, too small, or a mixture of the two. But I did leave 5 just in case I changed my mind and decided I wanted an LAC but at this point I’m really leaning away from them. The ones I applied to are:
Middlebury
Wellesley
Hamilton
Grinnell
Mount Holyoke

With the exception of Brown (which I found too liberal), I kept all the universities on my list so I applied to:
Yale
Princeton
Columbia
Stanford
UChicago
William & Mary

I applied/re-applied to my list:
Notre Dame
UVA
UNC
Brandeis
Boston College
Villanova
TCU
SMU

My list had become way too top heavy hence adding some more matches/safeties as well as three reaches I deicded I had been too quick to judge or not consider. And boy am I glad. I completely fell in love with UVA which became my top choice, followed by Stanford, closely followed by Notre Dame, Princeton, UNC, William & Mary, and TCU. Since so many of the new schools on my list offered EA I decided to swictch Princeton SCEA to RD. I ended up applying to Notre Dame REA and UChicago, UVA, UNC, Villanova, BC, TCU, and SMU EA with the rest all RD. And thank my lucky stars I did. I found out that I had been accepted to UNC as a Carolina Scholar which comes with a full ride. I just…I’ve been donning Carolina Blue for a while now and it still hasn’t sunk in. I just feel so fortunate that someone in Chapel Hill picked up my application and liked me. Although I was a semifinalist for the Jefferson scholarship and I did get into UVA which had become my ‘dream school’, I just can’t pass up the opportunity that is a full ride. Plus my heart has already fallen in love with the idea of genuinely going there next year and I’m already going to ‘Carolina in my mind’, haha. For those wondering my results were:
UNC - accepted with Carolina Scholars full ride
Mount Holyoke - accepted with Trustee full tuition scholarship (eek!)
TCU - accepted with Chancellor’s full tuition scholarship (again, eek!)
Grinnell - accepted with 25k merit
Villanova - accepted with 15k merit
UChicago - accepted with 5k first gen scholarship
UVA - accepted as an Echols scholar
Hamilton - accepted
William & Mary - accepted
Notre Dame - deferred REA, accepted RD
Boston College - accepted
Wellesley - accepted
Brandeis - accepted
SMU - accepted
Middlebury - waitlisted

I’m still waiting on Yale, Princeton, Columbia, and Stanford. No matter what, though, even if I get into all of them, I’m sticking with UNC. I can officially say I will be a Tar Heel next year!

I just wanted to say a huge thank you from the absolute bottom of my heart to everyone here on CC who gave me so much invaluable advice and support. Without it, I’m sure I would have chickened out on my own and I would be going to some UK university next year to study something I don’t really want to study and be moving somewhere I’m not counting the days to be. I can safely say I would not be going to Carolina next year without you all, so thank you. And I’ll make sure to report back how Stanford, Yale, Princeton, and Columbia turn out.

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If I understand the results, then your realistic options are: UNC, Mount Holyoke & TCU. ( This seems accurate as your initial post states that you were in search of an intellectual college & cost would not be an issue, yet your ultimate choice shows otherwise.)

How in the world did TCU make it on your list–a self proclaimed atheist ?

P.S. I love UNC, but I never would have suggested this school based on your stated criteria.

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What, UNC didn’t immediately come to mind with these criteria?

  • Either small or medium sized
  • I don't want to be somewhere where the social scene is dominated by Greek Life, partying, or Sports
  • Cost is not an issue;

To @OutOfKantrol – thank you for reporting back, and congratulations on the outcome of your journey. Things do change, both for a 17year old weighing options, and for parents whose views of spending money can evolve tremendously from the time when it is theoretical to the time when there are options in hand including a full ride offer. Your post is the best argument I can imagine against binding Early Decision – and you were right to title the thread “clueless” when you started. In hindsight, you were indeed “clueless” as to what the colleges offered and what you truly wanted, but it seems that you have done very thorough exploration of your options, and made excellent coices along the way. Not what you or anyone else expected last year – but a wonderful end result.

That’s the beauty of life – it’s full of surprises.

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First, I do not consider a school of 18,500 undergraduates to be medium sized–especially so after graduate students are added in. (Total of 29,911 students in 2018.)

Cost is not an issue, yet she chose the lowest priced option even though it does not meet her basic wants.

With respect to the social scene, have you been to UNC ?

Intellectual environment of a small or medium sized school does not describe UNC.

P.S. I just googled “total enrollment UNC Chapel Hill”. The result was 29,911 students in 2018. Definitely not medium size.

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I think you missed the twist in @calmom’s post, @Publisher.

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Probably so as I only read & addressed the first few lines.

Glad to read the rest. But my points still stand regardless of calmom’s post.

Although I could have saved myself some time, I think that it is important to remind OP as she is still waiting for several decisions. OP may still be somewhat “clueless” at this point–although less so.

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I think the point is that a year ago, the OP was “clueless” about what she really wanted. As she explored options-- and as she matured along the way, as all teenagers do – she realized that she wanted something entirely different. She discovered that small LAC’s seemed (to her) to be limiting; that “big” wasn’t as intimidating as she had once believed; that there is room for people like her at a college with a robust Greek life and Division 1 sports – and that no matter how rich you believe your parents are, money is always important. Maybe she will even discover, in college, that she enjoys parties and spectator sports — and who knows? another year down the line she might find herself pledging to a sorority.

Because she’s changed. And it seems that she has made her decision — perhaps an acceptance from Stanford or an Ivy may change her mind. But given that there is no possibility of merit money or need-based aid from that front — I think that she’s probably going to stick with the choice she’s made… even if does mean turning down an opportunity to have her parents spend $300K on her education.

I wouldn’t bank on her graduating in 4 years as a philosophy major either. Because she’s going to sign up for some philosophy classes, and she’s going to sign up for a whole bunch of other classes, and she might just find herself excited and inspired by something entirely different.

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Congratulations on finding the right college for you, and getting in! Have a great time there.

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Thanks for following up and congrats on the great result!

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I am so happy for you! Congrats!! I knew you’d get the Trustee! You have lots of incredible options! Best of luck to you.

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Yep, congrats!

Full ride at a good school like UNC makes a lot of sense (for a “non-intellectual” school, UNC philosophy’s Leiter ranking is pretty darn high). Especially when you consider that $300K that is invested in the market, even with conservative 5% real returns, would be $2.1M in 40 years.

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@OutOfKantrol How did you decide upon UNC? I am currently choosing between UNC and William & Mary and am leaning towards W&M because it seemed a little more intellectual due to its lack of focus on sports.

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Yes, W&M is more intellectual, but it also doesn’t offer full ride scholarships :slight_smile:

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@procake and @MYOS1634, I want to question the assumption that an intellectual atmosphere and sports can not co-exist.

Oxbridge are two of the most intellectual places on Earth, yet their Boat Race draws crowds of 250K.

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Yes, but a once-a-year boat race is totally different from the type of “vibe” (tent city, tailgating…) at a big D1 sports university.
Both atmospheres can co-exist but typically the most intellectual universities aren’t really the most rah-rah.

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There are 18,862 students at UNC Chapel Hill. Even if only 10% of them are super “intellectual” (which I bet is a very low number) that means that there are 1886 students to mingle with of the same “status”. Plenty. And I’m sure kids may still enjoy time “slumming it” with the merely smart kids ?

It’s funny, places like Williams are know for their smart kids but no one seems to question the 25%+ athletic population and the vibe there. It’s so small, so many less kids to “find your people”.

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Intellectual isn’t synonymous with smart. :slight_smile: Nobody’s at UNC who isn’t among the smartest in NC. And there are PLENTY of intellectual students there (especially in Philosophy!)
Williams isn’t especially intellectual in the way Reed, UChicago, st John’s, William &Mary, Carleton, Pomona, Swarthmore…can be. It’s nevertheless filled with super smart students.
That’s why vibe and fit matter. :wink:
OP found what s/he needed at UNC and with a terrific scholarship to boot!

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Now that I have all of my decisions in, I thought that I would let everyone know that I was rejected by Columbia and Yale but that I got into Princeton and Stanford! However, I’m sticking with UNC. I just got back from visiting Stanford, Princeton (for the 2nd time), and UNC (for the 3rd time) and it 100% confirmed my decision. Although I do still like Stanford a bit more than UNC, I don’t like it enough to justify my parents spending $300k. If it had been an extra $15k or maybe even $20k, I probably would have gone for it, but not $75k. @publisher when I said that cost was not an issue, I meant that it was not a limiting factor - if I hadn’t gotten those incredible scholarship offers, my parents would have been able to quite comfortably foot the Stanford or UVA bill. But alas we don’t have an endless supply of money and cost is still a factor. I’m just thankful to my parents that it wasn’t the main factor and if I had decided that UNC truly wasn’t a good fit, I would have had other options.

@publisher the name put me off too at first, but really, apart from having to take one religious studies class (which is a discipline I plan on taking classes in anyway), it pretty much operates as a secular institution. I was reading an online TCU article where one student said that the C in TCU should be changed to Community to better represent the university.

I think that @calmom articulated why UNC turned out to actually be the best fit for me better than I ever could. She hit the nail right on the head.

I was re-reading some of my old posts and I was struck by how even then I was changing my mind about what I wanted in a college. I thought that I wanted somewhere fairly urban but after reading anecdotes from posters about the pros of rural/small town colleges and how it wasn’t as big of a deal as I thought, I changed my mind about what I wanted and fell in love with Middlebury, Grinnell, Mount Holyoke, and Hamilton. Initially, I was put off by the idea of a school where the large majority of students were STEM majors but thanks to @LoveTheBard I opened my eyes to the advantages of a school where humanities majors are a real minority. I originally thought that small LACs were great fits but I later changed my mind and decided that, after reading many posts on CC and visiting campuses, for me, most LACs were just too small in both course offerings and diversity of student opinions but I’m certain that for other students that is not the case.

I think, for me, changing my mind about what I wanted so drastically came when I stopped looking at colleges as Rural LAC X or Big Sports University Y but as Grinnell and UVA. Suddenly it wasn’t just a perceived notion in my mind of what students and student life would be like based on one broad and subjective description but an actual individual school with its own unique atmosphere and traditions and campus and people. They became schools that I fell in love with and not just a set of preferences waiting to be ticked. And from the point of view of someone else, I can totally see how my saying that both Grinnell and UVA were fits seems contradictory. After all, they’re rural vs college town, small vs large, midwest private vs VA public, no Greek life vs large Greek scene, ‘down to earth’ student body vs ‘preppy’ student body. The only common thread between the two is that I think that I could be happy at both and that I could make a home for myself at both. I know that UNC doesn’t match up at all with my original stated preferences; it appears that I didn’t know myself as well as I thought I did. Turns out that what I think I want and where I think I will be happy and at home on paper compared to in real life are two very different things. The best thing about UNC is that it gives me the opportunity to make friends with people who are excited by ideas like I am and to take classes in areas I’m yet to realise I’m interested in. And it also gives me the opportunity to try and to pursue things I’m not at the moment interested in. Like @calmom said, maybe I won’t end up majoring in philosophy but change to classics or anthropology and then change it again. Maybe I’ll change my mind about Greek life, fall in love with the idea of sisterhood and philanthropy and join a sorority. I have a good feeling that I’ll change my mind about D1 sports and that I’ll be on the bleachers of every Carolina game that I can (as soon as I learn how American football and basketball work); I still cannot get over the absolute sense of pride and community I feel everytime I see someone wearing Carolina blue or the UNC logo. In fact, saying that I got a full ride to UNC is misleading - it doesn’t account for the cost of having to replace my entire wardrobe with UNC gear :wink:

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399

I love your post, @OutOfKantrol, and hope that lots of students read it. The whole point of education is learning what you don’t know, and the whole point of the transition from adolescence into adulthood is change. You are literally, physically changing, your world is changing and welcoming that change does not negate any of the things you used to think. Figuring out when to be flexible in the way you think and when to hold steady is one of the key arts of maturity. Lucky UNC- you will be a great addition to the community for both your peers and your faculty*

*people sometimes forget how much profs get back from their able, motivated students and what a thrill it is to teach them.

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@OutOfKantrol - I’m delighted to have contributed in some small measure to was has been an exciting and enlightening journey of self-discovery for you and and for whomever is fortunate enough to benefit from your experiences. I especially admire the paradigm shift you had when considering how two seemingly very different schools could both be potential fits despite obvious and superficial differences between them – the common thread being what works for YOU.

Well done!!

UNC is lucky to have you (although, truth be told, I would have been thrilled for you to have ended up on the Stanford campus).