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Krueger and Dale control for HS grades and test scores. White and Asian students at elite schools may outperform their racial/SES counterparts at other schools overall, but those at the same academic level were found to do as well regardless of where they attended. This was not the case for some other groups.
How is anyone supposed to define that?</p>
<p>“No one wants to deny URM’s a chance at college.”</p>
<p>How do you know that? I believe that YOU don’t want to deny URM’s a chance at college, but that doesn’t mean that no one does. The stand in the schoolhouse door was 50 years ago this week. Are all the people who applauded back then dead? Did they all change their minds? Did none of them raise their children with those time-tested values?</p>
<p>Racial animus is still with us. Plenty of Americans would like to deny URM’s a chance at college, or at least a chance to go to the same colleges where “we” want to go.</p>
<p>Although it is not related to this precise case, or even to college admissions and AA, here is an example of HOW far we still have to go:</p>
<p>[Little</a> S.A. singer proves he is a class act - San Antonio Express-News](<a href=“Little S.A. singer proves he is a class act”>Little S.A. singer proves he is a class act)</p>
<p>Fwiw, Sebastian de la Cruz was born in San Antonio and his father served in the Navy. None of that mattered to the people who posted the racist and demeaning messages on the social network. </p>
<p>Just think about the many hurdles this American boy who did not pick his race and parents will have to overcome before even getting to the application process. And this is a kid with special talents. Most of his peers are just plain kids who bear the weight of the minority crosses.</p>
<p>PS For a view of the twitter remarks [10-Year</a> Old Singer Sebastien De La Cruz Vs. Racist NBA Fans On Twitter](<a href=“UPROXX – The Culture Of Now”>UPROXX – The Culture Of Now)</p>
<p>Gator, I know admissions wants to meet multiple needs. Opponents talk of things like the “racial thumb” and how race trumps all. </p>
<p>Empowerment is the implication. Not a set of fixed numbers or projections out of economic theory, nor a noblesse oblige. You’d have to fully define “educational benefits” to even begin to limit it. As we see in the law all the time, interpretation matters.</p>
<p>Hanna,</p>
<p>I’m sorry. I just don’t believe that way of thinking is very widespread. I just don’t. Yes, there are individuals who are bigoted idiots…but I don’t think any of them are swaying whole admissions departments, colleges, etc.</p>
<p>Based on the poll, I find it interesting that the groups who stand to benefit most from AA overwhelmingly oppose the practice. Does this mean that the proponents of AA are essentially saying: “We know what’s better for you than you”?</p>
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<p>This could also be said for many Asian Americans too. It is sad that little Sebastian had to face such bigotry but I am glad to see the wave of support that he received. You just have to feel sorry for those people who have such racist feelings because they are just being ignorant.</p>
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<p>I find this so hard to believe.</p>
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<p>Other polls have found different results:</p>
<p>[Americans</a> Oppose Affirmative Action for Race, If You Only Ask White Americans
David A. Graham
The Atlantic
May 31, 2013](<a href=“Americans Oppose Affirmative Action for Race, If You Only Ask White Americans - The Atlantic”>Americans Oppose Affirmative Action for Race, If You Only Ask White Americans - The Atlantic)</p>
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<p>One needs to look at the wording of poll questions and the sample sizes to decide which poll is more reliable. If most black politicians and organizations such as the NAACP support affirmative action, and if blacks vote heavily for the party that is more supportive of affirmative action, then it seems likely that most blacks support affirmative action.</p>
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<p>To all: (Not just the above post) </p>
<p>And there it is. A feeling, which is really a fear of change. Fear of losing your place at the counter, resorting to arguing outdated IQ studies and backwards logic instead of understanding the economic and moral righteousness of AA. Your feeling/fear is likely passed on by tradition, it is so ingrained that you cannot see the light of truth, or maybe you can but chose not to see. It’s good far outweighs the bad, yet you chose the bad?</p>
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<p>First of all, one needs to remember how fickle polls can be. And how leading they can be through careful wording of the questions. If we were to believe in polls, Kerry would have been the fearless leader of our country! </p>
<p>Regarding the AA support, there is a prevalent attitude that can be described as “removing the ladder after climbing it.” Some racial subgroups have been very active and vocal is “keeping the battle” raging. Others have been much laxer (read selfish) in pursuing proactive advocacy. As soon as gaining personally is over, so is the reason to seek changes. </p>
<p>Further, some perceive the continuation or expansion of AA in college admission as an indirect lowering of their own achievements. Success is often measured in the rarity of the accomplishment; when it becomes the norm, it is no longer special.</p>
<p>If you think that those who oppose AA are racists, then you must label as racist the majority of the voters of California and Michigan. Both states passed propositions to outlaw the use of race in admissions to their state colleges and universities. </p>
<p>It’s a sad day when those of us who want all people to be treated the same by the state are labeled as ‘racists’.</p>
<p>Perhaps you feel colorblind, just wish everyone else would stop gumming up the process. Sure, we could just perpetuate what was. And things would magically straighten out? Is that what you say? Offer a chance for everyone to compete on equal footing and everyone will benefit? And, in theory, you would be willing to, uh, get everyone to this equal positioning, improve lousy schools, remedy the inequities that cause stratification, in the first place. Pay those costs and not fuss about whether “that” school district got a little more attention than yours, in the meantime? </p>
<p>In a perfect world, maybe we wouldn’t be in this mess, in the first place.</p>
<p>“Finally, a solution! All admittance will be done by the Percentage Plan. (No football for you guys!)”</p>
<p>They might have a fine football team, but one that would likely look a little different. (Right now, they have AA for 300 pounders.)</p>
<p>Affirmative Action was and continues to be necessary because lack of opportunity is a “legacy” too. If this society did not choose to affirmatively open up doors to those who were seen as “less than” we would not be this far down the road - discussing the possibility of reaching critical mass. It was never gonna happen organically.</p>
<p>“They might have a fine football team, but one that would likely look a little different.”</p>
<p>UT football team goes 2 and 9 … again. Coach touts substantial increase in the number of players on Academic Honor Roll.</p>
<p>xiggi, I worked hard not to post that story for the past 30 hours. It makes me so sad how ignorant and cruel some people are. I imagine the original performer, Darius Rucker, would have had his critics as well.</p>
<p>I don’t think everyone who opposes AA is a racist. I think some are naive about how much racism still exists in the U.S.</p>
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<p>No, not racist, just fearful.</p>
<p>I’m sure all those white upper class students and their parents who support AA would not hesitate to withdraw from their elite university so that spot could go to a poor minority kid. Yeah, right.</p>
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<p>I’m not quite sure what you mean by this, TatinG. You think elite universities don’t practice affirmative action? Almost all of them do, and in most cases more aggressively than public universities.</p>
<p>And no one was asked to “withdraw from . . . [the University of Texas] so that spot could go to a poor minority kid.” That’s not what the Fisher case is about.</p>
<p>So what’s your point?</p>
<p>Going off of bclintonk’s post: TatinG your posts assumes that white upper middle class families deserve or are owed every spot in “elite” institutions, and <em>any</em> person of color that is accepted to one of these institutions is robbing the white upper middle class students of their birthright place.</p>
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<p>Absolutely ridiculous. First of all, withdrawal is TOTALLY irrelevant. But if I got rejected from Harvard and a poor black girl in my town was accepted with slightly lower grades, I would be happy for her and I definitely wouldn’t feel cheated.</p>
<p>I have spent the last 18 years of my life in privilege, and I don’t feel entitled to continue that. I’m smart and hardworking, but I am not “owed” a spot anywhere.</p>