<p>^ Funny! And true.</p>
<p>AA questions aside, how exactly do colleges and universities verify reported race/ethnicity in this increasingly interracial world? Does 1/4 of minority bring more “diversity” than 1/8 or 1/16? And where do we draw the line to determine whether someone is a minority?</p>
<p>“Question: if we know we aren’t going to achieve “critical mass” for diversity purposes, is it okay to try (under Grutter)?”</p>
<p>Better Question: if we know we aren’t going to achieve “critical mass” for diversity purposes using race-neutral policies, is the university obligated to increase URM participation (using preferences)?"</p>
<p>tigerdad - I believe universities use “Race” as self-reported by students during Registration.</p>
<p>@NewHope33, then this self-reported approach is problematic practice by itself, isn’t it? How reliable can it be? If we were to use self-reported grades or recommendations, I bet there are tons of “inflation”.</p>
<p>Ime, they don’t verify. And this percentage thing (also mentioned earlier) isn’t the point.
NH I believe the U is obligated to try. It gets dicey when some call that preference. Defendants often refer to it as consideration. As in Fisher.</p>
<p>tigerdad, College Board requires high schools to verify race and ethnicity for kids to be awarded National Hispanic or Achievement scholar recognitions etc. In addition, I think adcoms look at info such as the church, school and extracurriculars.</p>
<p>@lookingforward, what’s the point if you can’t even determine the criteria?</p>
<p>@perazziman. what you mention is all fine and dandy. but still how exactly does CB/HS or other org verify (other than self-reported)? What church and school, and EC have anything to do with one’s race and ethnicity?</p>
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<p>Very true, and this is the fundamental issue. But this SCOTUS seems to want to close its eyes, click its heels three times, and wish it all away, saying “Now we’re all color-blind, now we’re all color-blind, so everything is equal.”</p>
<p>Best evidence for that is not Fisher, but today’s decision in Shelby County v. Holder, where essentially the 5-4 majority opinion by Chief Justice Roberts argues that because the Voting Rights Act is working, it’s now unnecessary and unconstitutional. Bizarre. Heard a good analogy today: it’s like the Court stepping in and overruling your doctor, saying that because Lipitor has brought down your high cholesterol, it’s no longer needed and you can’t take it anymore.</p>
<p>^ Tigerdad - Self-reporting absolutely is a problematic practice, and one of the reasons I see AA winding down as a Preference program. A few decades back there were no minorities in some state flagships. It was hard to argue WE NEED FEWER! Hence AA. Nowadays URM participation has leveled off. In Texas, URM participation is about half of URM proportion of population. Does half qualify as “critical mass?” IDK. Some argue WE NEED FEWER! Others argue otherwise. I think an enlightened view will prevail … though obviously we’re still struggling with what “enlightened view” really means. But I don’t think the European approach could be adopted here.</p>
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<p>If I recall, tokenadult has previously posted the directions of the the federal government which requires that colleges use self-reported race/ethnicity data.</p>
<p>Tigerdad, in my case, private college, they are looking for more than your self-id. Some connection. I’m distinguishing that from a formal verification of some sort. You’re reading a whole app, not just looking at the check box. I get that many don’t get that. It may be some affiliations or activities, but not limited to that. The easiest example is NA. Many, many can note legit genetic ties. Not all have been affected in any way at all, by the heritage.</p>
<p>I’m going to stand by my experience: AA is not a preference program. It does not say, “John, because he is Black” and stop there. Ime.</p>
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<p>Are you serious?</p>
<p>@lookingforward, a few of my friends married other races, i wonder how you will determine the races of their kids.</p>
<p>@perazziman, i am dead serious. HOW EXACTLY CAN U VERIFY ONE’S RACE (OTHER THAN SELF REPORTED? AND HOW RELIABLE IS SELF-REPORTED PRACTICE?</p>
<p>Maybe some colleges use the brown paper bag test.</p>
<p>@NewHope33 agreed. nobody can even define a critical mass. nobody can define minority in the case of interracial marriage. nobody can define what exactly is diversity…does 1/4 of minority bring more “diversity” than 1/8 if all else being equal? nobody can answer these questions and yet everyone wants to be the social engineer.</p>
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<p>Permanently creating two classes of states, one which can make changes to voting procedures without federal preclearance and one which cannot, based on discrimination half a century ago and before, makes as much sense as a permanent system of racial preferences based on past discrimination. People will tend to support both remedies or oppose both.</p>
<p>Tdad, they will self-identify. Try to grasp it. They don’t have to say, my grandmother was half this or that or state a fraction. That’s one reason it is now called identity, not race. I don’t identify it, the kids do. Most of us know many people who identify with more than one group. </p>
<p>Common App: "…please indicate how you identify yourself. (Check one or more and describe your background.)</p>