<p>Dupont sounds like a nice place to be, but for those of us who won't be getting a nice check every month the cost seems pretty staggering especially compared to Davis Sq. in Somerville. I guess financial aid becomes all that much more important.</p>
<p>You guys keep referring to Fletcher being in Medford. Yeah, it is. But it's also 5 minutes from Boston. So it's got the best of both worlds -- academic bubble near a big city. And Boston is not completely void of IR related jobs. There are tons of thinktanks in the area -- hello, Cambridge? -- as well as UN agencies, non-profits (Clinton Foundation, Oxfam America, etc.)... this is all thanks to the fact that Boston is the "Athens of America" -- so brainy people want brainy jobs nearby. Even if Boston is not where you want to work, being at a great school like Fletcher will get you any job you want in DC or New York, even if you don't go to school there.</p>
<p>Hi Anton: Sorry, I haven't logged on for a long time. First of all, what kind of SAIS grad am I? Well, I am a number of different in my typology that I presented. I actually happily temped for a few months after graduation as classmates of mine rapidly went into prestigious work often. Then I went into development consulting (helping poor countries try to be less poor) and worked in Asia, Africa, and Europe and never used my China specialization. Then I switched to business consulting and technology on the West Coast for several years. Now I work in higher ed. for an Ivy League school (that I never talk about on this site). I am an inveterate career switcher.</p>
<p>If you can handle a bit of a commute, get to DC a month early and find other SAIS students to rent a house in a less expensive place than Dupont. It would help greatly if you have a car. It would also help if you actively work with the school to identify folks in your situation with whom you could room.</p>
<p>By the way, I re-read what I wrote about Fletcher, and I want to emphasize I don't want to overstate that Medford is a bad location at all. Boston has a lot going on. And friends who went to Fletcher loved it.</p>
<p>For me, who had lived in Boston, but never even been to DC, the SAIS experience in the Capitol was unparalleled. And I agree with others that their schools do well in, for instance, government job placement. For example, there is a policy to not accept so many Presidential Management Interns from one school. Having said that, there is a strong SAIS mafia in DC, and I believe part of it is owing to the inertia of people staying in DC where they had gone to school.</p>
<p>Oh, and here's a warning: if you aren't focused and directed an IR MA can be no more beneficial to you than a second BA. It is a less known quantity for folks than an MBA. So keep your eyes on your goal, even as you mix it up and experiment. I would recommend working internships while you're in school, since busier people are more focused people and it will give you a taste of what you might want to do in the future.</p>
<p>What do you want to study?</p>
<p>Having lived in Boston for a couple of years and visited Fletcher, I am pretty familiar with the Tufts area. I think Lolabelle makes a great point and I really like Fletcher's location, especially in terms of proximity to Boston. It is nice to be so accessible without being right in the city. I used to live in Fenway and it was a little too hectic for my likes, especially on game days. </p>
<p>As far as jobs, it seems like Fletcher has the connections to help find jobs anywhere, which is great! In my case, I live with my girlfriend and my sense is that if we move back to Boston, we aren't going to want to move again in two years time. It is actually really good to hear that there are job prospects in the Boston area, because I am concerned about getting settled in Boston and then having to move to D.C. anyway to find a job. I know you mentioned a couple, but I would actually love to hear more if you know anything about where Fletcher students choosing to stay in Boston end up. Also, Tufts got that massive $100M, microfinance donation last year. Any idea if that provides an opportunity for Fletcher students to get involved?</p>
<p>Incredulous it sounds like you have actually had some interesting experiences since leaving SAIS. Good to know there are lots of options for those of us that get bored of doing any one thing for too long.</p>
<p>As far as living in DC, I am definitely not opposed to a commute if it helps find a more affordable place to live, though in my case I would definitely want to get a place with my girlfriend rather than sharing a house. Still it would be nice to be in a neighborhood with other students. Do you know where SAIS students live outside of Dupont? You mention having a car - do commuting students drive to school? I have heard so many nightmares about DC traffic with school near Dupont, isn't the subway a better option.</p>
<p>I definitely see you point about needing focus and direction. There are many different aspects of IR that I find fascinating. I want to study developing economies though I can't be certain which concentration will best capture my interests. One of the challenges for me will be to select a focus, but I feel I need to learn more in order to make that decision. </p>
<p>I have heard about how strong SAIS is for Econ so that is an obvious draw, but I am wondering if it is really that big of an advantage or if it is just that all students are required to do econ classes. I read the Econ survey by the SAIS student government (2005). It might be somewhat out of date, but it definitely set off some red flags. "Forty-three percent of respondents claimed their undergraduate economics course work was as difficult or more difficult than their SAIS economics courses." As an undergrad Econ major, I really don't want to be repeating work.
<a href="http://www.sais-jhu.edu/student_groups/SGA/documents/Econ_Survey_Report.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.sais-jhu.edu/student_groups/SGA/documents/Econ_Survey_Report.pdf</a></p>
<p>One of the things that really appeals to me about Fletcher is that there are so few requirements, I could easily explore a couple of areas before picking my two different concentrations. For example, I could study development from both a legal and economic perspective or I could combine economic development with a field like political economy. I could even take or audit a more advanced econ course in the econ department if I wanted. I will definitely heed your warning, but at the same time I'd rather do a little exploration and make sure I get it right.</p>
<p>Sorry that was quite long. Thanks so much for all of the great feedback. Please keep it coming!</p>
<p>Really quick, 'cause I gotta run. You should spend a lot of time figuring out what you want to do before you make your choice. I am dubious that a Fletcher grad can get any job they want, just as I am dubious that a SAIS grad can. Specifically, if you end up wanting to do mainstream business, neither one is a great fit, unless you do the dual degree program.</p>
<p>If you want to do finance or make finance a skill set for marketability, SAIS is actually pretty good. In the time since I've been there, SAIS has put substantial effort into beefing up its finance and econ. faculty and classes. At the time I went, I put a lot of focus into econ. at SAIS, but the reality is if you want to use an econ. degree of any sort for professional work, you need a PhD in most cases. There are classes that teach you real techniques that would be useful: finance classes, economic analysis classes, etc. But there are also a lot of basic econ. courses. You can test out of a lot of these, so that wouldn't be a worry. The bottom line, I think, is SAIS is good if you want to work in investment banking and some other parts of banking but don't want to get an MBA.</p>
<p>I can't compare it to Fletcher in this regard. I have out of date information. Get an interview there with someone who teaches econ. or a student that really did some focused work in econ.</p>
<p>For development work as a whole, I think both schools have grads that do well. But you are very unlikely to get a good career job in a place like the World Bank without the PhD in Econ. You can get some government analysis jobs, or you can leverage other skills you have and break into development or development consulting.</p>
<p>Feel free to ask more. Oh, one other thing: in general, I think the MPA programs at Harvard and Princeton teach more basic tools for economic development (but again I am basing this on old information about SAIS). The thing is it seemed to happen perenially that you'd get some Kennedy School transfers who realized they would be much happier with the international foci at SAIS.</p>
<p>I didn't mean you'd have to commute far (you could live on the Metro line). I don't know what's cheaper now and safe. At the time I went I lived way up 16th St. almost in Maryland and we had a cheap group house there. But I also lived in Dupont and Adams M and LOVED the convenience and, yes, coolness. Though others would disagree.</p>
<p>Incredulous,</p>
<p>Thanks so much for all of your advice. It is really helpful hearing from someone who has been through the whole process. I can’t really see myself heading into the business or I-banking world, I am actually leaving that world having done consulting for a couple years. </p>
<p>I am glad to hear about SAIS’s efforts to beef up the econ classes and the possibility of passing out of classes. Of course, your point about a PhD is well taken and something I have thought about quite a lot. It is basically a requirement for a place like the World Bank. Do you know if it has to be a straight econ Phd, because I know both SAIS and Fletcher offer PhD programs if you want to continue after the MA?</p>
<p>I am sure I will end up heading to a PhD someday, but I’m not ready for that kind of commitment yet. I know it is kind of a costly approach, but I really want to know a lot more about IR before deciding whether or not to pursue a life in academia and if so, picking a specialty for a PhD. Feel free to tell me if you think I am crazy.</p>
<p>I think you are right about the MPA programs at Harvard and Princeton. I looked into both schools. Princeton is a great program, but the location doesn’t work for my specific circumstances – I need a place with job and grad school opportunities for my GF. I’m sure Harvard is a great program for some people, but I am not sure it really has the International IR focus that I want. It seems to be a little more domestic / public policy focused and a lot more like an MBA with management / budgeting classes which don’t really interest me. I didn’t know about the Kennedy to SAIS transfers that is very interesting, but I guess I’m not surprised.</p>
<p>Good to know about the commuting, I guess I would have to do a fair amount of research about neighborhoods and costs. I‘ve heard about students work internships during the year, is that sort of an unwritten requirement? Also, how would you describe the other aspects of the social life at SAIS? </p>
<p>Thanks again.</p>
<p>I just got an e-mail from SAIS announcing an information panel they're hosting for applicants next Friday (2/9). Anyone going to this?</p>
<p>I got the same email, but I live in upstate NY it is a long way to go for an information session. I figure I'll wait and if I get accepted then it will be worth the trip down for the open house in April.</p>
<p>If anyone is going, I would definitley be really interested to hear how it goes.</p>
<p>I went to the info session in November and it was excellent. I was drawn to the energy of the participants and the Aussie embassy representative they had there made quite an impression on the prospective students.</p>
<p>Hi. I applied to Fletcher in November (early notification) but they decided to hold my application and review it again. Does anyone have any idea if I still have real chances of being admitted? My impression is that the process gets more competitive in January, because of the huge amount of applications they receive. Have any of you been admitted already? Thanks</p>
<p>Volscio - glad to hear you had a good impression of the info session back in November.</p>
<p>BrzIR,
Yes - I was admitted early. Sorry to about your early application, however my understanding is that Fletcher will review your application again completely as part of the regular decision. You should have at least as good a chance as everyone else applying. I have no information about it, but my guess is that it might even help you since they know you want to go to the school and since they are giving your app a second read. Good luck!</p>
<p>Hey Anton:</p>
<p>Let me try to answer your questions. Ping me if I missed any.</p>
<p>1) The social life at SAIS was a dream for me. For two reasons: 1) I really liked being around the students in the program, amazing people who had been to all parts of the world and done amazing things in policy, business, diplomacy. My class, or the one before it, included the grandson of a former UN Sec-Gen, a guy who left during Christmas to go administer aid in the Kurdish part of Iraq at a very senior level during the first Gulf War, people who had been in the Peace Corps all over the world, a few Green Berets, a guy who wrote the book on emerging financial markets as a Fulbright Scholar and trader in Singapore, etc. All over the map, all interesting. 2) I stumbled into the Italian contingent at SAIS. There was a huge group of people who studied their first year at the SAIS center in Bologna, and I happened to room with one. She invited me to her parties and I became an honorary Bolognese as they are called (perhaps pretentiously). What this meant is the dinner parties, drinking, good "vibes" for lack of a better term of the Europeans and Americans who balanced play with work were all accessible to me. My second year I made an active attempt to get to know the B's, but one of the Washington-based professors had gone over there to teach the year the new crop was in Italy and he spread word that Washington folks thought the B's were lightweight intellectually. Though I was able to overcome the big chill that this noticeably created relative to the Bs from the first year and the rest of the school, it did its damage. Damn him, it was stupid thing to have done. But they were still fun, just a bit more insular compared to those the year before. Target a Bolognese as a friend, American or European, and get invited to their parties.</p>
<p>2) PhD. SAIS has a very credible track record of putting or keeping people on a good PhD path in certain fields -- and some go to top schools. I have several friends who went on PS, Econ., IR, Antro, Public Policy, and I almost went for history. To be at the World Bank, or like institution, I am nearly positive you need to have a PhD in econ or perhaps stats. I think Public Health and other specialties can find things to do too there. But PS/IR type degrees have very little currency, I believe. Particularly for Americans who have the toughest, or among the toughest competition, for jobs there. There are quotas per donor nation.</p>
<p>3) Internships. Not necessary, but a good way of exploring and focusing the mind. I started one when I was there and didn't stick with it, but should have, and should have done more. I ended up working at SAIS. On the other hand, there was something to be said for having fun with the Bolognese.</p>
<p>Another note to the social life issue. In greater DC, the SAIS crowd can be insular, and they have a rep for being really arrogant. But I have to believe a lot of that was also owing to prejudice. Once we went to a SAIS, American, GW, Georgetown event and a woman introduced herself to me and a SAIS classmate with a great opener: "I've heard you guys think your god's gift to the world." Well, I am a humble person, but that's not a way to build bridges or elicit the most respectful reaction, though I tried to give one. She pretty much ran away. Another time I was at a party talking to a woman, and after 10 minutes she asked me the DC "where'd you go to school?" question. When I said SAIS, she said "wow, you've got to be the first SAIS student I have met who's not an arrogant f***." I think there was a kernel of truth to this, but I also think that people got so happily absorbed meeting a lot of their interesting classmates, that they got wrapped up in the group and the experience and seemed really self-absorbed from the outside. It looks bad, but it's a good place to be.</p>
<p>DC: Good dinner parties are its best form of civilized parties, and good dance parties with the Bolognese. The years at SAIS and the years after were really fun and good years for me when I met a lot of interesting people. It was nice, too, to have this set right in the middle of DC without having to compete with undergrads of other grad students for the campus (to the extent that SAIS has one of those; somebody once derogatorily claimed SAIS was "a couple of classrooms and a soda machine," though this is a huge exagerration.)</p>
<p>Let me know if you have other questions. I can't recommend SAIS over other programs to which I have never been, but SAIS was one of the best decisions I've made in my life and I was really glad I was in DC.</p>
<p>hi incredulous,</p>
<p>Thank you for such a thorough response, I am currently applying to SAIS. Can you tell me about the ages of the students there, and if you don't mind, how old you were when you started?
In regard to the social scene, I guess I find it hard to see fresh out of college students in their early 20's hanging out with students in their 30s. Is the student body divided in this sense?</p>
<p>FM: I was 26 when I went, and I believe that was about average. I hung out with 22 year olds and dated a 32 year old woman. I would say it's not so divvied up in an ageist sense, much more so in terms of what you study. I was China Studies, and we were a cohesive group. I think it's a great and interesting student body, so it may be easier for it to be more cohesive in this way. As I said in one of the posts above, I attached myself to the students who spent a year in Italy -- much more La Dolce Vita.</p>
<p>Incredulous- I am curious about what you said earlier about not getting pigeonholed in China studies. I have been living in China for a year, and it will be 2 by the time I get around applying to SAIS and similar programs. With my experience and my language skills I suppose I almost have to apply as a China studies major, but the problem is, while I have enjoyed my time here, and wouldn't mind another brief rotation here while I am still young I don't want to be just a China guy for the rest of my life. I love Asia, and would be happy to do development work in Southeast Asia especially, but I also enjoy Europe, and would love to work in comparative policy. (I am perhaps a cliche of a liberal arts major, and I know my tendency towards dilettantism will probably hurt me professionally in some way.) It sounds like you have definitely had a varied career, but I was wondering, in your opinion, is it easy to break out of the China mold while still working in development or policy? Also, do people who switch over to consulting tend to get stuck as China/Asia guys? </p>
<p>(my trepidations stem from this: In Beijing I work as a freelance researcher for journalists and businessman here, and while the journalists seem to be able to move around at the higher levels, I meet a lot of youngish (30something's with young kids) professionals who tell me that their location in China has really advanced their careers beyond where they would be in the states right now, but the problem is that many of them feel like they would be completely dispensable outside China, and their companies wouldn't really have much use for them, at a high level anyways, if they requested to be transferred back.)
sorry to burden you with my strange anxieties, but anxious to hear yours or any other perspectives</p>
<p>Have you ever read Stilwell and the American Experience in China? I recommend it, if not. For a variety of reasons. </p>
<p>General Stilwell was apparently a great military strategist and would have been heading up the European Theater or perhaps greater Asian in World War II, were it not for the fact that he spoke Chinese. The Army had sent him to learn it at Berkeley. He was relegated to China as a result, and an effort that officially at least wasn't really considered part of the war to a great extent. </p>
<p>Well, obviously China's not a back water now. But the concept of what I call the Stilwell trap still has relevance.</p>
<p>1) Apply to SAIS and similar programs talking about China, 'cause that's your bag. It matters absolutely nothing if you get into the program and switch to something entirely different, if you want. I chose to follow through with China Studies because the prof. was great and because I was interested enough, and because I wanted to validate my time in Asia (which had been 3 years). But I was very undecided about going back. Ultimately I decided
2) There aren't good development jobs available to you that I know of dealing with China out of a program like SAIS. It might be different if you go for a PhD in Economics. Development jobs tend to be offered by: World Bank, USAID, Contractors to the US Gov, Regional Multilateral Development Banks, NGOs. NGOs would be your best bet, but you'd need a specialty more than just China -- Environment, Economics, etc. [China is spending its money being an ersatz World Bank according to an article I just read, spending money on large development projects to curry favor with oil-rich nations in Africa, maybe in LA]. In policy, you might have more: the US Govt., foreign service, etc. Journalism, etc. would be good.
3) Choose very carefully what you want to do. And choose very, very carefully when you leave China for good. I have friends (including a close one who runs the Bureau of a well known business magazine there) who have signed on essentially for life. 'Cause they are in their early 40s. Some of them wanted to come back, some of them still do, but I just don't see what they would do here unless they went back to square one. </p>
<p>Gone are the days of rotations when companies (as they used to do) would put you up in let's say Beijing for 3 years and then bring you back to the States or send you to let's say Brazil for another posting (for which you would be very well compensated). Your usefulness is your knowledge of China; there you will remain, unless you want to come back and change careers.
4) If you know you don't want to be in China forever or stomach a transition after leaving China following a let's say post-SAIS 3-4 more years back to the States, I would use grad school as a re-entry mechanism and not go back. If you need to get it out of your system by staying there yet an extra year, do so.</p>
<p>I would say broadly speaking, China offers you the following:</p>
<p>a) a basic overseas credential. You speak Chinese and know the world. You're smart. It's a good thing to have in your "personal portfolio," looks good on your resume. But doesn't lock you into a path. (this credential you already have; it will help you get into grad school and get a job after -- grad school transitions you.)
b) a more refined and specific credential related to your work function and your market knowledge. More time in China, for instance, working in consulting there, might help you get some experience that is transferable to the US. The problem is you'll be competing with returning Chinese Harvard MBAs for those kinds of jobs. It used to be different 10 years ago; just being smart and knowing Chinese got your opportunities that you couldn't necessarily get Stateside. Now there is a local Stateside-educated elite. And companies have wanted to localize.</p>
<p>Increasingly, though, this more rarified credential is relative to market knowledge and being able to get around in China. As you deepen this credential it works against you, if want to come back. This is the Stilwell trap.</p>
<p>How do I feel about it, the choice I made? When I visit my friends in China, sometimes I get really wi****l about the good times when I was living the expat life there and everyday life was more exciting. </p>
<p>But that cuts both ways. My friends there sometimes really want to be here. And some of them that have opted to leave have often not had an easy transition time.</p>
<p>And I had great times after SAIS in places in Africa, Southeast Asia, etc. And ultimately I didn't like Chinese culture/China enough to want to adopt it as my ersatz homeland.</p>
<p>These are all things that you need to decide for yourself. You mentioned about being dilettantish. You should figure that out. Maybe being a journalist would be the right choice. For me, I think it would have been the right career. Instead I've been a bit all over the map. And now work in higher ed. But I would have had to be an overseas reporter for it to be interesting enough. I just didn't like China enough to think that I would have been happy pursuing it there.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>Incredulous,</p>
<p>Although i have no real interest in IR, that was a very interesting post. I enjoyed reading it.</p>
<p>I second that. Incredulous your post was clearly very well thought out and extremely interesting to read as someone who is soon to be heading to graduate school and embarking on a career in IR.</p>
<p>Thanks for taking the time to write such helpful posts.</p>
<p>Won't SAIS be releasing admit decisions soon? Anyone know when?</p>
<p>Yeah, I think they say mid-march so it will probably be at least another week. I am anxiously awaiting the result.</p>