Flight hassel with cello

College Majors Music Major
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<p>When my family moved from Europe to America, our travel agent contacted the two airlines we were considering regarding their policies concerning my daughter’s carrying on her violin (which is a few inches longer than normally-permitted overhead baggage). The travel agent summarized Lufthansa’s agreement on our itinerary: she could carry it on and stow it in the overhead compartment, and that could be her sole carry-on. I felt confident that this would work (and it did), in part because we had a third party involved to help if necessary.</p>

<p>The other airline, USAirways, missed out on four expensive one-way business class fares because it either would not commit to allowing us to carry it on, or would have required us to buy it a ticket. </p>

<p>The gate agent in your example clearly misread the policy. Given the context, the last line meant–You can check a cello, but if you choose to carry it on, it has to be ticketed and travel in the seat beside you, not in the overhead compartment. Perhaps using a travel agent could be helpful for making arrangements for transporting the cello in the future, as you would have an experienced third party to back you up.</p>

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<p>D just left on a flight yesterday and took her guitar(for recreation only). D is a vocalist singing a role in a young artist program. American Airlines informed her, that if she brought a letter from the festival she would be classified as a professional musician and she would be able to bring the instrument on board. D did not encounter any problems.</p>

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<p>musicamusica, is she an AFM member? Her membership card alone should prove professional status.</p>

<p>But we are dealing with capricious airlines. ;)</p>

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<p>I’m not sure if classical vocalists can get AFM cards…worth looking into. (to date she has never had an issue with checking-in the old vocal cords)
Though once she reaches the much coveted big voiced “dramatic soprano” fach, this may change. ;)</p>

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<p>Schokolade - In 2003 when we moved to Germany, we were concerned about our children’s instruments (horn and violin). We were flying Lufthansa as well. The issue we ran into was that we had a connection in Frankfurt, and Lufthansa insisted that the instruments MUST fit in the carry on size check baskets in Frankfurt, or we would not be allowed to take them on the connecting flight. </p>

<p>We were novices at flying with instruments, and were afraid of the risks. We ended up FedExing them - it took several weeks, and cost several thousands of dollars (fees, insurance, and import duties). Fortunately we weren’t paying for it. (The company my H works for makes some truly stupid decisions sometimes. We could have had a direct flight for $100 more, and saved them a lot of money, but they insisted that we take the cheapest flight. So it cost them. Ironically, in the time it took them to evaluate our request, the flights all went up about $250. No wonder the company has problems. But I digress.)</p>

<p>In hindsight, I truly doubt that there would have been a problem. We were just afraid to risk it, and no one would offer any guarantees. We’ve actually avoided Lufthansa ever since, though, because they were not able to help us (and most of their flights go through Frankfurt).</p>

<p>After that, we flew Delta non-stop from Munich to Atlanta, and they never blinked about insturments. (Delta partner Air France gave S a hard time once about the horn, but it worked out okay.)</p>

<p>I’m hoping this cello situation causes enough embarrassment to the airlines that they become a bit more intelligent about their decisions. I might be hoping for too much.</p>

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<p>I got a reply letter from US Airways Customer Service. The letter said I misinterpreted their policy. They only highlighted the last line-Cellos and bass violas will only be accepted as seat baggage, so they said the counter persons decision wasn’t wrong. But if you read their policy from the beginning, it does not sound like every traveler with cello should buy an extra seat. First part it says that appropriatly packed musical instruments can be checked in. And in the second part it explains about the policy for carry on for over sized musical instruments and in order to bring them in the cabin an extra seat has to be purchased. Am I wrong? </p>

<p>If they truly meant all cello travelers must buy an extra seat, they should have put their wording differently so everyone could clearly understand the policy. I might need to ask help from someone who understands legal documents.</p>

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<p>I’ll reiterate what I said in an earlier thread. </p>

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<p>northwestern, if the below is a verbatim quote from their letter, the terminology really bothers me.</p>

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<p>I’ve been around stringed instruments a long time, and I consider myself a fairly knowledgeable layman, but can someone with a better background please explain to me a bass viola? I’m well aware of what a bass viola da gamba is.</p>

<p>If that is in fact a policy line from US Airways, it seems an attempt to get three instruments covered by mis-speak. I can imagine a frustrated violist arguing the point and a US Air employee waving the document… </p>

<p>ScrewU Airline employee: “Stop. Can’t board, you gotta check it.”</p>

<p>Starving musician: “I don’t have to check it. It’s a viola.”</p>

<p>ScrewU Airline employee (waving document): You gotta check it." “Look right here! The policy clearly states viola.”</p>

<p>Starving musician (removing folded copy from pocket): “No, it says bass viola.” </p>

<p>ScrewU Airline employee (waving harder): “You still gotta check it.” “Look right here! The policy clearly states viola.”</p>

<p>Starving musician: "There is no such instrument as the bass viola… there’s a bass viol, a bass viola da gamba… "</p>

<p>ScrewU Airline employee: "The comma is missing. The policy says cello bass viola. You want me to call security?</p>

<p>Starving musician: “My mistake… it’s my violin.”</p>

<p>ScrewU Airline employee: “Then move it, you’re holding up the line.”</p>

<p>Starving musician (muttering undertones): “So we can wait two hours on the tarmac…”</p>

<p>And another reprise

</p>

<p>I won’t blame 'em.</p>

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<p>Son on outbound flight to Milan was charged oversize fee for checked cello in BAM flight case; on return flight same airline, Air France/Delta, same luggage, same cello in BAM flight case, did not get charged extra for oversized luggage. We’ve sent an appeal to Air France. As others have said–vaguely written policies give the airlines total liberty to do what they like.</p>

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<p>Hopefully they don’t bill you for the oversized fee on the return flight!</p>

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<p>northwestern wrote, “I might need to ask help from someone who understands legal documents.”</p>

<p>I am an attorney (retired) who understands legal documents, and I still think you’re right. This isn’t intended to be construed as legal advice, and I don’t currently have an active license to practice, etc. However, here’s why I think you’re right.</p>

<p>First, the phrase in question applies only to those cases where the customer chooses to bring an instrument into the cabin. The phrase, “Cellos and bass violas will only be accepted as seat baggage,” is a continuation of the phrase, “To do this,” which clearly refers to the previous sentence, allowing customers to bring their musical instruments in the cabin with them. Therefore, if a customer chooses to bring an instrument in the cabin, he must buy a seat if the instrument is a cello or bass viola. </p>

<p>Second, the phrases “USAirways <em>allows</em> the customer” and “if … the <em>customer</em> believes the instrument is too fragile to be handled as checked baggage” both indicate that it is the customer’s choice, not the airline’s, as to whether the instrument is checked or carried into the cabin.</p>

<p>Third, if the intent of the writer of the policy was to prohibit properly-packed cellos from being checked, the requirement to buy a seat for a cello would have been placed in the sentence, “Fragile items will be accepted as checked baggage if they are appropriately packaged in a container/case designed for shipping such items,” not at the end of a sentence three paragraphs later.</p>

<p>Even though I still believe you are right and the airline representatives read the last phrase out of context, I am doubtful that the airline will change its position. Please let us know what happens!</p>

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<p>Next time, tell them it’s a Sardinian guitar, and not a cello at all.</p>

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<p>Thank you so much schokolade. I have been considering to take a legal action, like a small claims court. Not because of what you said, but since the day it has happened. It will be a good educational opportunity for my daughter how to react when she was treated unfairly no matter what results we get. </p>

<p>Like Violadad said, all we want is clear policy. If they refine their policy with the claim it is worthwhile.</p>

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<p>From a Wickedpudia article somewhere or other:</p>

<p>The bass viola is the long-sought missing link that is the common ancestor of the violone and the bass violin. No existent examples of this instrument have yet been discovered. The only known iconographic evidence occurs in the works of Hieronymus Bosch, where bass violas are employed by two individuals within a cluster of flying pickle-headed fish using various musical instruments as cudgels to drive a group of battered three-legged teapots toward a gaping hell mouth. The allegorical meaning of this element has yet to be decoded.</p>

<p>There is much speculation concerning the technique used to play the eighth (drone) string, fitted between a bridge attached near the top of the flat back of the upper bout and a tuning peg that extended below the rear of the lower bout, that gave the instrument its characteristic sound as described in the works of Odoric of Pordenone. Some musicologists have suggested that this was the origin of a musical prosthesis intended for players on the distaff side that later became the basis for both fingerpicks and an entire line of adult-oriented products. Others consider this theory pure hogwash. It is thought that, as the sound of the eighth string lost its popularity, the tuning peg became vestigial and eventually disappeared entirely on instruments that led to the violone and that the tuning peg elongated and turned into an endpin on instruments that led to the bass violin.</p>

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<p>It would appear that the airlines were merely exercising what they considered due diligence in an attempt to control illegal trafficking in extremely rare musical instruments. Had they done their research properly, they would have realized that the restriction was entirely unnecessary as neither a bass viola nor the plans for the construction of one have ever been found.</p>

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<p>Cellopop, I also had that thought, but I’m not sure how they could get their hands on my $$.
I will be shocked, however, if my appeal is successful.</p>

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<p>Thank you BassDad. That clarifies the situation completely.</p>

<p>I’m so glad that they take such pains in looking after the public good.</p>

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<p>Last year, DS started his undergraduate studies as a cello performance major in Iowa. After three car trips from NY to Des Moines and back and a comfortable but long and eventful trip via Amtrak, we decided this year to take the plunge and chance air travel with him checking his beloved instrument.</p>

<p>At the recommendation of a respected mentor, DS purchased a Blobby cover for his hard case. It’s made by Alan Stevenson in England. Getting it here from over the pond took some doing (remember that Icelandic volcano?), but it seems it was worth the effort. It’s a big, waterproof canvas cover lined with foam. If someone tries to throw it, it will roll rather than slam to the ground, with the foam absorbing most of the impact.</p>

<p>Today, DS flew United to O’Hare with a connection to Des Moines. We checked in early at LaGuardia and were pleasantly surprised at how respectfully his instrument was treated. With very little urging from us, the airline personnel opted not to put it on the belt, but called for a TSA worker to handcarry it to an elevator and then follow it downstairs to be loaded. We tracked this procedure, and perhaps our spying is what prompted the extra care, but it was reassuring to see that the cello wasn’t being abused.</p>

<p>Of course, when he got to Des Moines he found his battered suitcase, but no cello. As panic set in, he learned that there had been no room on the puddlejumper for his behemoth, but United assured him it would arrive on the next flight from Chicago in a few hours, and indeed it did. DS found his instrument in perfect condition, just as he had packed it. </p>

<p>The case is well within the parameters for regular luggage, so he did not have to pay oversize charges. His suitcase weighed a ton, though, so we had to fork out $100 to get that on the plane. I’ll give the Blobby an A for getting the cello to school intact, United a C+ for the delay in transport and that hefty fee.</p>

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<p>I finally resolved the claim with the airline company. Long story short, the company compensated the amount I spent for a seat for cello with their vouchers. I am still not sure it means they admit their fault or not, but I am glad that at least my voice was heard. </p>

<p>Here is the detailed story… When my D returned from the music camp, I wrote a letter to the customer relations explaining what my D had to get through for the trip and asking a refund for the extra ticket I had to purchase. A few weeks later, I got a denial letter. In the letter, a representative person said ‘extra seat for cello’ was their rule, so it was a valid charge. She added I should have read the policy thoroughly because the rule for cello was written at the very last line. (I still don’t think it is the reasonable way to lay out in the website for the rule.)</p>

<p>I could not agree with their decision, so I wrote another letter explaining why I could not agree with the decision and asking them to reconsider my claim. First, the policy on the website was not very clear to understand. Second, ticket sales representatives were not able to give me correct information if it was their rules. Third, because of the first and second reason, my daughter had to deal with great inconvenience. </p>

<p>I got a letter from another person this time from the same department but the person reiterated what the first person said. I realized that I could not resolve it directly with the company. I felt I needed someone who could hear both sides of the stories and make a decision for us. I decided to bring this to a small claims court. It took some time and a small fees(It was reimbursed by the defendant later.) but I did not mind. </p>

<p>On the due date that they needed to respond to the court, a claim specialist contacted me and asked me an out of court settlement. The person offered me a little more amount than I actually spent because at first I was reluctant to take offer, compensating with vouchers. (I did not want to get through hassles again in using their vouchers.) I am not so sure they wanted the settlement because it was the most cost effective way for them since their main office is far from where I live, or because they saw that it was their fault. Anyway, I hope in a mean time they update the website and re-enforce their training system for cello travelers.</p>

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<p>Way to stick to your musical chops, Northwestern! Thanks for the update. Now I have to re-read this forum to understand where keyboards fit into the airline picture.</p>

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<p>Thank you so much for the update! I am glad you pursued this. Every time I think about this, I think again that you were right.</p>

<p>I am curious–how difficult was it to navigate the small claims court system?</p>

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<p>It took some time but was not difficult at all. I just had to get a form from a court in downtown and fill it out. For the defendant’s name, I had to call the state to ask which name should be on for the company. It looks like airline companies have legal agencies in each state. But every step was written on the form and I just followed the steps. You do not have to have(or not allow to have) a lawyer for a small claims court.
If you do not have a financial loss but just want to complain about the airline services, Aviation Customer Protection Division might be a good place to visit. They do not mediate problems but they share info with other airline companies and they said it helps for them to set regulations. Thank you for your support!</p>