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<p>The issue is not that NC residents are any less (or more) friendly, welcoming, or approachable than the average student in a national university. It has to do with whether you think there is an important advantage to having a more geographically diverse student body, whether in your classroom discussions, your dormitory social life, or future alumni network. If so, is it worth paying extra for that?</p>
<p>I do not think geographic diversity within one nation makes much of a difference. There are obviously subtle differences, but by and large, to an international student, those differences go unoticed.</p>
<p>I think an American student can benefit leaving her/his region because they will distance themselves from home, experience a new part of the country and they will appreciate the nuanced differences. But a Chinese student is already taking a huge step just studying in the US. </p>
<p>Bottom line, intellectually, I do not think having much US geographic diversity enhances the experience much. The US is one nation with a prevalent culture and high school system. What Americans bring to the classroom will not vary enormously from state to state.</p>
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<p>Well said, tk21769. Is it worth the extra cost for these advantages? Personally, I think so (assuming the cost differential is reasonable).</p>
<p>I read this thread because my daughter has been accepted to UNC as a math major and thought I’d find some useful information.</p>
<p>I am compelled to respond, however, to this statement from tk because I’m concerned that it might be misleading:
</p>
<p>The reason tk couldn’t find a CDS document for WUSTL is that WUSTL does not publish it. Reading Princeton’s CDS gives one absolutely no valid information about class sizes at WUSTL. </p>
<p>You can get class size information for WUSTL here: <a href=“http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg01_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=1720[/url]”>http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg01_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=1720</a></p>
<p>The class size information for UNC Chapel Hill can be found here: [University</a> of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Overview - CollegeData College Profile](<a href=“http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg01_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=1600]University”>http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg01_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=1600)</p>
<p>^ Thanks for a very helpful post, Schokolade. Absolutely right, looking at Princeton’s data isn’t going to tell you one useful thing about WUSTL.</p>
<p>On the other hand, the class size information for WUSTL at the link you provided isn’t all that helpful, either.</p>
<p>It says:
</p>
<p>Now maybe the math majors can help us out here, but to me that looks like it accounts for only 60% of the classes. So unless we know how the OTHER 40% of classes are distributed, this is just garbage.</p>
<p>I’ve got nothing against WUSTL, but they do have a longstanding reputation for manipulating and/or hiding data. Which to some of us suggests they may be trying to cover something up. It may be a fine institution. I just wish they’d be more honest and forthcoming.</p>
<p>^I noticed the sketchy math as well. However, note that the data for UNC doesnt add up either:</p>
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<p>the balance of classes would be 2-9 students</p>
<p>40% - WashStl
27% - UNC</p>
<p>Thank you for this discussion. </p>
<p>We don’t have access to WUSTL’s CDS to see whether engineerbill’s idea is correct, but the CDS for UNC-CH shows that the percentage of their classes with 2 - 9 students for 2010-2011 was 23.2% (722/3,107), so it is certainly plausible. While this number is several percentage points off, we don’t know to which year the collegedata site refers. I think engineerbill is right.</p>
<p>correction:</p>
<p>the balance of classes would be 2-9 students</p>
<p>40% - WashStl
25% - UNC</p>
<p>What happened at UNC between 2009-10 and 2010-11?</p>
<p>from the common data sets for each year:</p>
<p>Total Classes
2558 - year 2009
3107 - year 2010</p>
<p>2-9 students
229 (9.0%) – year 2009
722 (23.2%) - year 2010</p>
<p>10-19 students
766 (30.0%) - year 2009
945 (30.4%) - year 2010</p>
<p><20 students
995 (38.9%) – year 2009
1667 (53.7%) - year 2010</p>
<p>I have a neighbor from NJ who is attending another well-regarded OOS flagship, Michigan. She found it difficult to make friends at first because most everyone she met who was from Michigan already had friends from high school who were attending the school. That is why I think the % of OOS students matters.</p>
<p>So, while I’m sure that UNC students are friendly and welcoming, there won’t be as many people who are desperate to make new friends from day one since they don’t know ANYBODY at the school, as there would be at WashU.</p>
<p>sacchi, the latest freshman class at Michigan was 40% OOS and 5% international. Besides, there are 750 undergrads from NJ and another 1,250 or so from NY currently enrolled at Michigan. Finally, you would be amazed how many in-state students at schools like UNC and Michigan hate the fact that they know many of their fellow in-state students. Many actually choose to avoid them and make an extra effort to make friends with OOS and international students. </p>
<p>As such, I don’t think geographic diversity was the problem. Your friend either did not adjust well to change or did not get involved in the 1,000 or plus student organizations. </p>
<p>This said, many students at public universities will remain within their comfort zone and as such, OOS and international students will have to make a slightly greater effort to make friends. This is not the case only at public universities. Some private universities, like Cornell, Stanford and Rice, have large in-state populations and OOS and international students at those schools feel the same effect. WUSTL is definitely very diverse. Only 10% come from the state and only another 30% from from the region. The 30% figure is very important. People often draw the line at in-state vs OOS, but the fact is, most students at most universities, private or public, will come from IS and neighboring states. That is not the case with WUSTL, were over 50% come from distant states. But like I said, I do not think a student need worry about making friends at any university. College students are, by their very nature, curious and friendly.</p>
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<p>Alexandre, just to clarify a bit: Cornell’s incoming class of 2009 was comprised of 29% in-state students, 54% out-of-state, and 17% international. When you consider that the lions-share of in-state students attend the three (out of seven) undergrad contract colleges, then it becomes apparent that Cornell’s in-state demographic is surprisingly small – particularly for a school that is physically located right in the middle of a large state. So, the students at Cornell are in a more diverse demographic setting than even top state schools like Michigan, UNC, and Cal.</p>
<p>I am not sure where you got your information Colm. 17% international is ridiculously high…bordering on “unacceptable” by US standards. Universities try to limit the international student pool to under 10%. </p>
<p>I am part of the CAAAN committee in Dubai and we are given annual enrollment reports. According to the Cornell admissions office, Cornell enrolled a total of 3,179 freshmen in the fall of 2010. Of those, 1,034 (33%) were residents of NY and 258 (8%) were international students. That does not inlcude residents of Pennsylvania and New Jersey, which make up an additional 15% of the student body.</p>
<p>Don’t get me wrong, Cornell is definitely more geographically diverse than Cal and UNC and slightly more so than Michigan, but Cornell (as well as Rice and Stanford) are not as geographically diverse as WUSTL. That is the case with most universities by the way. 40% of Penn students come from PA, NJ and NY. Outside of FL and CA, there is very little diversity at Penn too. Generally speaking, 40%-60% of undergrads at most private universities that claim to have geographic diversity are either residents of the state or come from neighboring states. Outside of that group of three or four states, the majority will come from CA. Very few students will come from less represented states. </p>
<p>I genuinely do not think geographic diversity is worth mentioning since very few universities truly have such a diverse student body.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000415.pdf[/url]”>http://www.dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000415.pdf</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.admissionsug.upenn.edu/profile/[/url]”>http://www.admissionsug.upenn.edu/profile/</a></p>
<p>Alexandre, here is where I got the regional distribution data for Cornell’s incoming class in 2009. The official information is about halfway down this “Cornell Facts” page under the subtitle [Regional</a> Origin, Fall 2009](<a href=“University Factbook - Institutional Research & Planning”>University Factbook - Institutional Research & Planning).</p>
<p>The information you have cited above is at odds with the info from cornell.edu’s official facts page.</p>
<p>I would go with my link Colm. Not only does it come from the office of the registrar, it also happens to mirror Cornel’s historic student makeup. 17% international is unheard of. I think CMU has the highest percentage of international students among major universities, and even their percentage is under 17%. All Ivies have around 7%-11% international students. At Cornell, residents of NY, PA and NJ have always made up rougly 50% of the undergraduate student body. At Penn, residents of those three states make up 40% of the students.</p>
<p>Alexandre, sometimes it can be difficult to choose between reports that seem to be at variance from each other – particularly from the same institution. In this case I’ll probably choose to go with your citation, and your long standing erudition, since it seems to be similar in percentages to a data sheet I have for a profile of students matriculating in 2010. I did notice that the 17% international figure has an asterisk noting that it included “US possessions,” but I don’t think that should increase the distribution differential all that much. So, I’m not sure how they arrived a that 17% international figure.</p>
<p>maybe the extra 9-10% from “US possessons” comes from Texas</p>
<p>Actually, the most likely scenario is that the 17% foreign student figure includes graduate school students and refers to the whole university and not just the undergraduate school, particularly since the whole university enrollment is discussed here:</p>
<p><a href=“University Factbook - Institutional Research & Planning”>University Factbook - Institutional Research & Planning;
<p>this would make all of you correct for Cornell</p>
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LOL. Most Likely:)</p>
<p>Engineerbill, lol from the belly at your initial comment about Texas-as-a-US-possession above!</p>
<p>Also, you beat me to it, I had just been investing this issue further and have come to the same conclusion, that is that those regional distribution figures on the Cornell facts page are inclusive of graduate students.</p>