For average students, lets keep these super amazing students in perspective

Applying to College
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<p>I don't take the statements in the What Are My Chances? Forum at all seriously. The funniest threads in that forum are the threads in which the original poster comes back, after being told he has no chance to get into such-and-such a college, and announces that he was admitted to that college. Many of the people posting replies in the What Are My Chances? Forum have no idea what anyone's chances are, and probably do reply just to psych out other participants. The same is true of replies to chances threads in the individual college forums on CC. </p>

<p>For some actual numbers of students who WILL be able to enroll at various colleges, based on how many students actually did enroll in a recent year, see </p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/413821-sat-score-frequencies-freshman-class-sizes.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/413821-sat-score-frequencies-freshman-class-sizes.html&lt;/a> </p>

<p>There is a lot of room at a lot of good colleges for a lot of students. Prepare well in high school, work on your applications carefully, and apply widely, and you should see some good results.</p>

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<p>Yesterday I stumbled upon last year's master list of acceptances. It was very nice to go to the last page and see so many different schools listed. <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/245767-master-list-acceptances-class-11-a.html?highlight=master+accept*%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/245767-master-list-acceptances-class-11-a.html?highlight=master+accept*&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>I've learned to not even bother looking at the "What are my chances" forums anymore, they are by far the least informative forums. But I'd like to point out to token that CC students seem to be very pessimistic about chances, which can be a good thing. Dreams that aren't attainable can be painful.</p>

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<p>The applicant pool for HYPMS is, as you say, 'stratospheric'. Why shouldn't stratospheric applicants to HYPMS have as much right to worry and 'stress out' or vent a little bit as other, more average kids? Just because someone has 2300+, a bunch of APs, and a host of awards doesn't mean he forfeits the right to post those achievements for fear of 'deflating' others' bubbles. Besides, most chance threads' titles give mention of the schools the poster is looking at. If you want to avoid listening to kids whine about 2350s not being 2400s, just skip the 'CHANCE ME FOR HYPMS' things. </p>

<p>For the son with the 2000 SAT who was dismayed to see so many higher scores being shot down as 'weak' - a 2100 or 2200 is weak for Harvard, yes, but a 2000 is NOT weak for many, many schools. Saying a score is weak only makes sense given a context i.e. list of schools you are aiming for. </p>

<p>I think it's nice that we have this community of competitive high-achievers so we can learn about what kinds of honors and accomplishments are out there. Like I said, basically every achievement needs to be viewed in context. I think we shouldn't depend on the opinions of others to shape our views of our own stats/scores. And I think a healthy dose of things like chances thread at least serve one purpose - they remind the brightest of us that there's a reason to stay humble. Besides, they do offer a reality check for kids who want to go to the top Ivies but have little idea of the kind of intense competition they have, and the kind of resume it takes to be admitted.</p>

<p>Ivies aren't the only schools many kids here aim for. I see a lot of chance threads made by people looking at LACs, public state schools, second tiers, UK schools, rural schools, commuter schools, and so on. Another benefit of chances threads is that if you are interested in X school, you get to see what kinds of other applicants are applying to X school and how you stack up to them.</p>

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<p>I think what angers me most is how many students here seem to tell people they have "No chance" at a certain school when that student falls into the middle 50% of that school's acceptance. That just makes no sense...</p>

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<p>I mostly lurk on the boards but wanted to take a minute to thank you for this thread. I have thought so many of the same thoughts many times while reading here.</p>

<p>My D and I personally see no value in the chance threads except for the possible mention of schools that we have not heard of and can check out. My D says if I want to know my chances somewhere I can look at the schools web site and see where my stats fall. </p>

<p>We just want to find a school that will be a good fit for her academically and personality wise, where she can be happy for 4 years. Her stats give her some pretty good choices and we are happy with who she is and what she has accomplished.</p>

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<p>i agree. i have found that the "actual results" threads are much more useful.</p>

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<p>Just a footnote to the above, I am the first to be in awe of these "superachievers", believe me I am astounded for lack of a better word by all that they pack into four years of college, to come out with spectacular scores and GPA. BUT, I think my biggest gripe is in fact how negative many of these kids, not just the high achieving ones but many in general of a kid who is coming here, and basically putting himself out on a limb and making himself vulnerable by asking for chances. I mean with all due respect, these are just 17 year old kids, what makes them an expert? When my son wants to know where "he stacks up", he just goes to the collegeboard website, goes to the school under my colleges, and clicks on WHERE DO I STACK UP? THEN you know where you stand in the applicant pool. I fail to see how and why so many chance me threads crop up, I mean its your fellow competition that is sizing you up, and let's face it, in the name of competition.........one is not likely to put another up on a pedestal and give a lot of extra encouragement to implying that another has a strong chance to get in, I mean how much would you want to celebrate and therefore compliment the achievements of your fellow competitor? It is just the nature of the beast. I can see why my son wants no part of it. I do have to say, however that there is a great deal of value and insight on this board, which I greatly enjoy reading and learning about. There IS a great deal of redeeming value here, I personally just don't think the chance threads that typcially take a dream and rip it in half serve much, when you can get the REAL DEAL on the collegeboard, thats all.</p>

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<p>CTmom3, I've never visited that particular site, but it can't post much more than GPA, SAT scores, ranks, and AP scores of applicants. For HYPMS, many applicants have already 'maxed out' or almost maxed out those scores, reaching almost perfect. For those students, ECs, sports, leadership, volunteering, essays, recs... etc, or in other words, what they have done besides get good grades and test scores... determines whether they will make it in. Even for other schools where scores are a bit more of a deciding factor in admissions, you can't disregard the huge part of each applicant's application that is NOT numbers based and cannot be compared to stat information on the CB website. There is no way a website can evaluate these sorts of activities, because they can't be quantified. Now, I'm sure that a lot of us who give chances aren't very good at evaluating resumes either, but like I said, I think collegeboard would only show stats about scores, which are only a very narrow portion of applicants' resumes.</p>

<p>Besides, there are so many other factors to consider besides a schools' 25-75 SAT score or how many valedictorians they accept or whatever. We have to consider what kind of schools applicants come from (regional bias), what opportunities they had, their race, financial status, parents' education (legacy or dishwasher?), athletic recruitment, etc. Simply put, someone at 75% on all stats posted on some website might have a very low chance of getting into MIT, while another at 50% might have a very high chance. These are nuances that only human beings can appropriately assess. A lot of top schools can afford not to be highly score-oriented because they receive so many high scores already.</p>

<p>
[quote]
There IS a great deal of redeeming value here, I personally just don't think the chance threads that typcially take a dream and rip it in half serve much, when you can get the REAL DEAL on the collegeboard, thats all.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That's a bit melodramatic, isn't it? Whoever feels that his heart is "being ripped in two" when someone tells him he has a small chance of getting into a reach school should... toughen up and stop being so sensitive, especially because most chancers are NOT out to hurt strangers, but rather to offer advice. I'm sorry if that sounds rude, but well, I'm the same age as your son (also a high school senior applying to colleges) and I wouldn't be that offended if someone told me I had poor chances at a certain school, as long as that assessment wasn't made with malicious intentions. If a person realistically has very little chance of getting into a school, doesn't he deserve to know earlier rather than later? I don't find the chance threads to even be THAT inaccurate, only perhaps slightly skewed towards pessimistic chancers. Luckily, you typically get 5 or more response to a thread, so you can get multiple opinions. And of course, even if you post up your resume and 10 people tell you you have NO chance at X school, but you still think that you do have a significant chance, nobody is going to stop you from applying, and you can hold on to your convictions. Again, it's not like a mere website with perhaps 10 or 15 numbers for each college can offer the 'real deal' about chances when each applicant can type up many pages of info about himself/herself that collegeboard does not even begin to touch.</p>

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<p>Ctmomof3, what you say is true to a certain extent. But, many people seek out Chance threads because they offer some kind of human interpretation. Remember, an admission reader will be browsing a student's application, not a computer. It is unfortunate that, nowadays, a lot of students can't just go to a school's website, find that they fall within the range of acceptable scores, and be confident that they will be admitted, but that's just a fact. Scores will, in no way, get you into certain universities anymore, and you can't check Collegeboard to find a list of great EC's or essays you need for admission.</p>

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<p>amb, I personally do not agree. I have found and I have looked at many chance threads, and overall the tone I get and apparently many others as well is a pessimistic one. I almost never read someone saying something like " You are great for that school, good fit, wow you have done so much,etc.." In general whether its the schools I just happen to looking at or what but most see it rather from a negative angle. My nephew was very active on this two years ago, when he had his heart set on Boston College, everyone on this board told him there was no way he would get in, he was super discouraged and started coming up with a few extra schools for fear that he had set his sights too high. P.S. He not only got in, but got in early decision. I believe the negativity can affect someone who is already feeling super stressed to begin with, believe me I would not want to be a teenager right now and my heart goes out to all of you for you are under more pressure in today's society than perhaps any generation before you.</p>

<p>All I am saying is that this website is a wealth of information, but the chance threads do TO ME, put a negative spin normally on the OP and I know that like my son, I would find it discouraging. Of course for others who are much thicker skinned, I am sure they can let it roll off their backs. I know though for some it can be a real downer and I think we just need to keep in perspective that the average person on CC is most certainly reflective of the average senior in America.</p>

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<p>^ I have a sticky keyboard, I met NOT reflective of the average senior in America:{</p>

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<p>^oops again!! I MEANT not reflective of the average senior in America.</p>

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<p>The 'actual results' thread might be biased to the positive. You're less likely to post your results if you're a student who expected to get in somewhere and didn't, then if you were pleasantly surprised by admissions results!</p>

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<p>The average senior here is certainly not reflective of the average senior in America, but the average senior here is probably reflective of the average applicant pool to the top ranked colleges. And when you read chances threads for those colleges, it's with THAT perspective that you will be ranking them...for a lot of those schools it's really impossible to say "You have GREAT chances, I have every belief that you will get in" because so many students with great stats don't get into those schools, for often subjective reasons.</p>

<p>And by the way, it's actually much easier to get into a school ED. That's one of the little tidbits you can pick up on the forums...</p>

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<p>
[quote]
The 'actual results' thread might be biased to the positive. You're less likely to post your results if you're a student who expected to get in somewhere and didn't, then if you were pleasantly surprised by admissions results!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>thats true. but its still helpful to see who got in where.</p>

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<p>Getting in ED is much easier than getting in regular decision for quite a few schools. Perhaps those who chanced him had the notion he was applying RD, and would have given him more optimistic chances had he mentioned his decision to apply ED (I'm not sure if he did mention or didn't). </p>

<p>"You are great for that school, good fit, wow you have done so much,etc."</p>

<p>Well... yeah. I don't think kids are going to say that. I've never seen anyone say that for anybody else, even those who have done an extraordinary amount. I just think that the average poster here does fit that description and does deserve that praise, but sometimes to tell somebody that he has done so much and is a great fit leads that person to think that he is a match for a school that he is actually a reach for. The problem is that... many Top 10 schools receive applications from THOUSANDS of kids who "are great for that school", who are "good fits", and who have "done so much". Unfortunately, the uni cannot take all of them. </p>

<p>Also, if you visit chances threads where the target schools are third tier or state schools, you do see a lot of positive responses. I have seen quite a few posts along the lines of "I bet you can get there", or "This school is a match/safety for you". Perhaps the reason you see so many negative chances is that you more frequently visit chance threads for top tiers? In reality, most of those kids are going to receive rejections from those schools, because their admit rates are so low. So it doesn't surprise me that someone applying to HYPMS is going to get quite a few "____ is Strong but ____ is a bit weak or lacking". </p>

<p>I don't want to get in an argument with anybody, and since I think I'm starting to repeat myself, this will probably be my last post on this thread. I just wanted to represent the idea that most chances threads are more helpful than hurtful. I'm applying to the very schools that have <15% admit rates, and when I read chances threads for other kids applying to the same schools and see so many of the "You're a strong applicant, but you don't stand out from the pack", I'm slightly disheartened, but I've learned so much about what it takes to get into an elite school. Until I read a few of the threads, I thought my 2400 SAT and 4.0 and val. status were enough for almost any school, but now I realize that's not true at all, and I'm glad to know that before decisions come out. I understand that many of those who give negative chances are simply not sugercoating their words, which is fine with me since I tend to take the blunt and honest approach to these kinds of things too. Perhaps others who are a bit more sensitive will take offense to a negative evaluation of their chances...</p>

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<p>I learn some things from CC, but I'm really glad my kids have no interest in this website. They are both smart, talented kids with stats appropriate to the schools they're interested in, but I wouldn't want them to spend time here. For one thing it would warp their sense of what constitutes the worth of a person. Me, I'm old and jaded... so while I do learn a thing or two here from time to time, it also holds the lurid fascination of some bizarre sideshow to real life. Kind of fun in a weird way.</p>

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<p>Its especially gratifying when come decisions time and you get the "I dont know what happened, IM VALEDICTORIAN!"</p>

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<p>'rentof2, you hit the nail on the head</p>