<p>have a question for all of you smart people out there....</p>
<p>Is there an LD that prevents/makes it difficult for a student to learn foreign languages? and is it tied to any math disability?</p>
<p>My daughter is really struggling in Spanish; this is regular, non-honors plain vanilla Spanish...it is not taught as a vocab based program, but rather like "whole language".......</p>
<p>and if there is another place for this thread, moderators, please move.....</p>
<p>Some scholars think that certain variants of dyscalculia or even a non verbal ld (they are not the same thing) would make it hard for someone with either one of those LD’s to learn a different language. </p>
<p>Renee M. Newman and Mahesh Sharma along with a few other scholars are really researching dyscalculia very well and here is a web site they work on and whatnot…</p>
<p>[Dyscalculia.org</a> ~ Math Learning Disability Resource](<a href=“http://www.dyscalculia.org/]Dyscalculia.org”>http://www.dyscalculia.org/)</p>
<p>Here is the international dyscalculia forum. In Europe there is way more work being done on dyscalculia then here in the US and I have no idea why…</p>
<p>[The</a> Dyscalculia Forum - News](<a href=“http://www.dyscalculiaforum.com/news.php]The”>http://www.dyscalculiaforum.com/news.php)</p>
<p>Here is a neat article on NVLD, what is interesting is that most folks with that do alright (this is a downhome example) with languages but not so much with geometry or something. </p>
<p><a href=“Web Page Under Construction”>Web Page Under Construction;
<p>I hope you can read this alright, Rodney. I just moved and I have the worse glare from the back porch on my computer right now :)</p>
<p>thank you for the links…</p>
<p>I don’t know what the disability is called, but when I was a student at W & M (100 of years ago or the late 1980 early 90’s) they required 3 semesters of a foreign language, I had struggled through French in HS and knew I could not do it in college. I went to the Disability Office and they did several hours of testing and said I would never be able to learn a foreign language without living abroad. I was allowed to take three semesters off a list of other options (I took 3 religion classes which were some of my favorite courses).</p>
<p>I have a math disability. Coming into my foreign language classes, I expected the learning process to be fairly simple since I’ve always done decently in English and love reading about different cultures. However, I’ve discovered that the sequential difficulties that make math challenging transfer over to foreign languages. So much of foreign languages are learned by rote. I intuitively picked up English grammar skills through reading and listening to conversations, but with foreign language grammar, it is neccessary to sit down and memorize charts which are hard for people with sequential issues. The order of adjectives, prepositions often change in other languages which complicates matters. While I’ve received my share of bad grades on written assignments, projects and oral assignments have helped my grade significantly. When I am learning a new grammatical skill it helps solidify the concept to read things outloud. Dialogue assignments are great because when a partner acts out a scene, I am more likely to remember the vocabulary. You can do this at home if your teacher doesn’t give such projects. See if your daughter’s Spanish teacher would be willing to give students extra credit for bringing in movies, music, objects, etc. featuring Spanish. A lot of teachers do this if you ask because they like their students to see that the language is relevant. Languages get better as you reach the upper levels because it’s not just about regurgitating grammar, but about writing interestingly and creatively. While my grammar is often clunky, teachers go easier on me because they like it when I add bits of humor.</p>
<p>Can anyone help me find research or literature connecting dyscalculia and foreign language difficulties? I tried to appeal for accommodations in foreign language due to my disabilities but they refused, if I could prove this or at least make a compelling argument I might be able to appeal it. I am up at 5am at the moment, having not slept, working on Spanish homework for a class I’ve already taken three times. I am not going to make it to graduation because of this.</p>
<p>I’ve long believed this connection exists but can’t get anyone to listen to me, particularly because some dyscalculics excel in language acquisition.</p>
<p>Here is the thesis of one of the scholars behind the dyscalculia.org web site. It is available on the very web site itself and is a pdf file. You can cross reference what she refers to at your University library.</p>
<p>Please note, this is a pdf file…</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.dyscalculia.org/thesis.pdf[/url]”>http://www.dyscalculia.org/thesis.pdf</a></p>
<p>Twisted, you do have to keep in mind that there are different variants of dyscalculia and all of that. </p>
<p>I am at home and so I cannot access my University’s scholarly database at all.</p>
<p>Your school is odd to me because you want accommodations for what some folks want a waiver for at University. </p>
<p>Why did your University refuse accommodations?</p>
<p>Those of you who are struggling with language classes where you have to memorize lots of vocabulary and grammar out of context need to look for alternative courses. Ask around for the teacher or class who is using “Communicative Methodology” or “Berlitz-style Method”. For an absolute beginner, try to find someone who uses a lot of “Total Physical Response (TPR)” activities. These methods focus on placing all grammar and vocabulary into a clear context, the way you learned your first language. Memorization is not really necessary because you just plain learn that the thing your teacher is holding is called X or what the teacher is doing at the front of the room is called Y. Hard core grammar drills are minimized. I teach English for Berlitz, and the methods and techniques I’ve mentioned here really do work very well for many students.</p>
<p>There are many variants of dyslexia and dyscalculia. It is possible to be dyslexic in one writing system and not in another (e.g. dyslexic in English but not in Chinese), or to have your dyslexia revealed when you struggle to master a written form of a second language. A fair amount of research has been published on these issues in journals such as Brain and Language. If you talk to the reference librarians at your college, they should be able to help you use the research databases to find articles on the subject of “foreign language dyslexia” or something like that. Another good place to start would be [LE</a> CERVEAU À TOUS LES NIVEAUX!](<a href=“http://thebrain.mcgill.ca/]LE”>http://thebrain.mcgill.ca/) This website from McGill University is in both English and French. For some reason, the address is English, but the link name shows up in French.</p>
<p>My university refused both, the romance language department as a rule does not accommodate learning disabilities and if you feel you have a significant one you have to petition for a waiver by proving that you are incapable of learning a language-- which isn’t the case, I am capable and have been successful at other schools, but my success depends entirely on the teaching and evaluation style and I am not only not allowed to take my requirement at another school but we are not even allowed to take the courses pass/fail. I petitioned for accommodations or a waiver if they were unwilling or unable to accommodate, the academic standards board approved accommodations but gave NO specific information to the department about what they are required to do, they are indignant about being required to do anything, so what they decided to bend and give me is no help whatsoever and doesn’t even cater to my actual disabilities. They are blowing me off.</p>
<p>I am good with memorizing vocabulary and even grammar concepts. I can read and listen in Spanish very well, but I cannot speak or write because I cannot synthesize everything or retain the information-- exactly like math. We are taught formulas to create sentences in Spanish, just like math, and you need to have good sequential ability and spacial orientation (someone like me who can’t tell the difference between left and right is in trouble). If i am just working with one concept at a time I can manage a C or B range, but when we start having to use multiple language formulas at once in the same sentence then I lose it, I am not able to do it. I’ve been studying college level spanish for three years now and am still in the first year level, even though I have LEARNED all the material, I just can’t EXECUTE it. They will not bend in any way to allow me to be successful. One could argue that I shouldn’t have come to this school if I needed accommodations, which is precisely what they argue, but I had no idea the teaching style here was so wonky, I did fail one class and have to repeat it at my old school but otherwise I did fairly well. The system at my old school was designed perfectly for me, this curriculum is designed in a way that it is almost impossible to be successful.</p>
<p>I’ve also read a few things that suggested that /some/ people with autism may struggle with foreign language, and I have been diagnosed with high functioning autism since my last petition (dyscalculia last year, autism this year-- I am having a hell of a college career) so if I can throw that in too that would be helpful. I don’t know enough about that to know if it is making a difference for me, besides that I’ve now failed two quizzes because I answered the questions accurately but took them too literally and didn’t answer as intended. My Spanish was correct, damn it, I don’t understand why the department is so determined to make this impossible for people like me.</p>
<p>You know, Twisted…</p>
<p>I hate to speak like this, but maybe you reached your own particular academic level with Spanish already. </p>
<p>Such things happen. </p>
<p>So if the argument is that the language department caters to those who need a waiver after having proved that they cannot learn a language, then I would figure that you would have to think of a way to prove that you cannot learn a language past a certain academic level. </p>
<p>There is no shame in such things at all. Everyone in the life has something that they can only do to a certain level. Everyone. </p>
<p>I do not like what your school is doing at all and I remember your having posted things of it before. It is really far out as to why some schools would almost rather see someone flunk than man up and help them out. You are going to have to see how far you can take motivating your school to do the right thing in the here and now before it is too late. </p>
<p>You also might have to seriously consider what could very well wind up being a possibility… taking Spanish by itself and working it hard for a good four hours a day or so if need be. Where I live in the South, some LD University students do that. It ain’t pretty and it does cost. But, I have seen it done before as a worse case scenario. </p>
<p>Fight the good fight and do not give up hope, twisted. I hope Rodney is learning of a thing or two in all of this as well :)</p>
<p>“They are blowing me off.”</p>
<p>Absolutely. Every single college and university that I have ever heard of that had or currently has a language requirement for graduation also has had MULTIPLE options in place for completing that requirement. At the very least, your university should accept college level transfer credits from another accredited college/university in the US, and should allow you to fulfill your language requirement by earning a specific score on either a departmental exemption exam, or a nationally standardized exam. </p>
<p>Go to your personal advisor about this. If he/she can’t help you, go to the dean of your college. If he/she can’t help you, take it higher up. Bring the evidence that you have that you have been successful in other environments, or with specific accommodations.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>