Fork in the road: undergrad business

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of California - Berkeley
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<p>Okay ill keep this short and sweet.
I was accepted to USC Marshall with a presidential scholarship and I am pretty confident that I will be accepted to UC Berkeley as well. </p>

<p>I would like to enter undergraduate business. I need to choose between these two amazing schools.</p>

<p>So cost wise, berkeley would be a bit better. I am most likely not getting any financial aid for either schools so Berkeley would be around 30-35 and USC prob closer to 40 with the scholarship. </p>

<p>Campus and community wise, I prefer USC. I love San Francisco but Berkeleys campus was a bit too liberal and frankly, had too many Asians (I can say this because I'm Asian). I like an atmosphere that more closely represents the real world and having Asians as a majority, especially in business, would probably put me into a bubble that I don't want to enter. Plus, I like that USC has a more diverse regional demographic (as in there are more people from all over the country and around the world). Berkeley is like 99.999999999% Californians. </p>

<p>I also heard Berkeley is super cutt-throat. I love competition but a "Trojan family"-like atmosphere seems more appealing to me. Plus USC has a better night life, Greek system (if I decide to go), and I heard very attractive girls (let's not deny that). And the football program at USC is exciting. </p>

<p>Business school-wise I know Haas outshines Marshall in almost every category. But I don't like the uncertainty of having to apply for Haas my sophomore year. Whereas at USC, I'm already in Marshall. There is no uncertainty of possibly getting rejected to Haas and having to take economics or something along that.</p>

<p>Career wise, I am still unsure. Possibly something in the finance industry, venture capitalism, or maybe even entrepreneurship.</p>

<p>So overall, I feel that USC would be a better fit for me and according to College *******, it offers a better overall college experience. But is this worth the slight drop off in the quality of business education? (Haas>Marshall).</p>

<p>If anyone can make a recommendation for this fork in the road, I will greatly appreciate it!</p>

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<p>lol after reading your post it seems you already would prefer to go to USC and ur just asking validation of ur decision</p>

<p>you seem to care a lot for the social scene</p>

<p>berkeley actually has a decent one too but usc’s probably better in that area(and socal girls)</p>

<p>i’d say go for usc</p>

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<p>You should go to USC. it’s a lowly third-tier university but has less asians. And of course you will enjoy your college life down there.</p>

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<p>If you’re interested in finance, go to Berkeley. There’s no finance industry in Los Angeles. Also from what I hear, USC isn’t even on the map when it comes to undergraduate recruiting.</p>

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<p>"…I am pretty confident that I will be accepted to UC Berkeley as well. "</p>

<p>What is that old saying about chicks hatching? :)</p>

<p>Maybe you should wait until 3/28 before continuing this thread?</p>

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<p>Is that a question?
Nothing wrong with anticipating and preparing for the best. </p>

<p>USC does seem more appealing but is it worth the possible drop off in quality of education? </p>

<p>How difficult would it be to transfer to Haas after my first 2 years at USC?</p>

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<p>It’s weird how similar your situation is to mine several years ago: I was deciding between Marshall and Pre-Haas at Berkeley, felt similarly about both schools, and was interested in those topics. I ended up choosing Berkeley/Pre-Haas, but thought very highly of Marshall for similar reasons as you do. Given the similarities in your position and to the one in which I was once in, I hope my perspective will be helpful:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>If you choose Berkeley, and you make getting into Haas a priority (as in, you build a resume based on a combination of grades, work experience, school clubs, case competitions, volunteering, etc.), you’re very likely to get into Haas and set yourself up for internships as an upperclassmen and jobs after you graduate. If you don’t go out of your way, you’ll likely end up in the Econ major, which is a highly regarded program and will still get you into interviews but you, of course, won’t learn business in class.</p></li>
<li><p>At the same time, if you’re motivated, you’ll do well wherever you go. Marshall is particularly regionally - but you can still open broader doors for yourself if you push yourself. And the college environment is what will define your college experience and shape the quality of your four years. Unless you feel that academics are extremely important to you, go with the school where you “click” the best with. </p></li>
<li><p>I think your comments on Berkeley’s culture are generalized but do have a grain of truth to them. Yes, the campus probably has proportionally more Asians than USC. Yes, the girls probably look better on a high level basis at SC. Yes, Berkeley has proportionately more Californians (though also quite a few international students) whereas USC has more out-of-state Americans as well as the other 2 categories. But, it’s also a matter of where you immerse yourself. Greek life, for example, is less racially monolithic, more geographically diverse, and more attractive than the campus at large. The fact that you can walk off campus and into a pedestrian- and student-friendly city generally safely is really nice. In order to really understand these differences, I would visit both schools (again, if you can), stay with college friends at both schools (if you can), and try your best to fully absorb the lifestyle there (the “feel” of the campus, a class, etc.), and visit both with an open mind.</p></li>
</ul>

<p>If I were in your shoes, I’d probably lean toward USC. For me, academics were paramount and culture was important but secondary. I’m happy here but it took some time adjusting (my hometown is quite different from here). But for you, it seems like culture is paramount and academics is important but secondary. If that’s the case, and given the fact that the costs of each school are comparable (yet USC will offer nicer facilities, resources and class enrollment access on the whole - something to consider), I’d envision where you see yourself most likely to be happiest and decide accordingly.</p>

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<p>I’m not a business major, so in terms of academics I can’t really help you. I do think you have some misconstrued notions about Berkeley that I, too, had. For me it meant I didn’t go to Berkeley and then had to arduously transfer from my 4-year university. </p>

<p>-So to answer your question about transferring from USC: it would likely be impossible for you to transfer after 2 years as CC students get priority. Essentially you will have wasted 80k if your goal is simply to transfer.</p>

<p>-As for liberals: welcome to all (most) well-regarded universities. Unless you’re going to like, Southern Georgia for college, you will very very very likely have a ton of liberals surrounding you. As a staunchly apolitical independent, I don’t really have a problem. Of course, don’t join the College Dems or anything like that and you can probably avoid politics altogether (well, until 2016 I guess but I don’t see SC being any better).</p>

<p>-I really REALLY don’t think that U$C would represent the real world better than Berkeley. I really think you might have gotten caught up in some sort of bubble when you came to visit, but Berkeley is SUPER diverse, WAY more diverse than SC and far more representative of the real world. I come from a big family of Trojans and they all concur with me on this.</p>

<p>-Berkeley has less Californians than you may think it certainly not as high as you seem to think. I know people from CT, NY, MI, China, Hong Kong, the UK, NJ, PA, Canada, even Iowa for god sake. The Berkeley is only for Californians is a serious misnomer. Are there more Californians at Berkeley than east coast schools? Yes, but affordability and close to home-ness are often sells for people. When I went to school back east most of my friends were from a different state than where the school was located, but they were within about 2-3 hours of home. California is HUGE.</p>

<p>-Idk why people try and make Berkeley students sound like they wield knives and try and kill other students. My old school was WAY more cut-throat. Like, people legitimately lived in the library and it was crazy. Berkeley I guess could be cut-throat if you decided to make it so, but if you leave the library and get involved in stuff than I think it’s actually a really enjoyable place. I think a lot of people who maybe struggle try and make it seem more cutthroat when in reality it’s just that there are a lot of smart people who drive up curves. I like challenges so it’s never really bothered me and I honestly think challenging yourself is what you want to do in college as opposed to being heavily under-prepared in the so called “real world”. Obviously I have time to write this on CC so it can’t be <em>too</em> bad. Again, though, I’m not pre-haas or haas so maybe someone else can chime in on this point.</p>

<p>-As someone who left a private school for Berkeley I couldn’t be happier. My old school was more “prestigious” but I really have a lot more opportunity at Berkeley and I feel way way better here. I think that’s really the key. A lot of people disagree with me, but it’s really tough to be successful when you are unhappy. Go with what feels right. You seem like a motivated individual so I think you’ll do fine no matter what you choose. Try to have a little fun :D</p>

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<p>Basketballkid124, thanks for that response! It feels good to know that there were other people that faced this same choice “fork in the road.”</p>

<p>How much more professional opportunities does Haas offer over Marshall. Would it give me a huge upper hand to graduate from Haas? I keep hearing conflicting advice. Some people tell me undergrad business doesn’t matter and the masters degree is the real importance while others tell me attending a good undergrad business is key to future success.</p>

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<p>What’s wrong with being around Asians? Asians are the pinnacle of human evolution. We have highly evolved brains that enhance visual-spatial abilities, to say the least. Our men are also one of the most attractive in the world.</p>

<p>If you’re afraid of competition from our group of graceful Asians, just know out in the real world, it’ll be just as competitive.</p>

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<p>OP, you’re absolutely right that going to a good undergrad is important for a business career. But, Berkeley and USC aren’t so far apart that it really matters. They are both good. Haas vs. Econ @ Berkeley vs. USC Marshall will all offer roughly the same opportunities if you try for it. </p>

<p>I think you should base your decision more on where you want to work regionally after college. There’s a higher chance you will end up somewhere in the Bay Area/SF after graduation if you go to Berkeley, and higher chance of SoCal/LA if you choose USC. I think Berkeley will have an added advantage that a lot of recruiters from SoCal will go to Berkeley to recruit a long with Bay Area recruiters, but Bay Area recruiters will not go out of there way to USC to recruit. I’m not completely sure how true this is but Berkeley will basically give you access to jobs in Bay Area and SoCal while USC is limited to LA. Of course, there are always outliers and if you network hard enough you can end up anywhere.</p>

<p>I also think it’s good for you to get some diversity too. You are right: Berkeley is heavy on Asians and dominated by Californians. But, from my experience, Asians are really prominent in the business world now. I’ve traveled to different cities while interviewing for jobs and the people I’ve seen to appear the most are: Caucasians, East Asians, and Indians. If you look into certain industries, like Big 4 accounting, it will actually be mostly Asians instead of white people.</p>

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<p>Go to USC. The city here sucks hard. </p>

<p>You can probably get some great networking from USC as well.</p>

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<p>Whoever said there is no finance industry in LA is dead wrong. All the BBs recruit at UCLA and USC (or at least most). They recruit for their LA and SF offices. </p>

<p>I can only speak on the biz programs as I was choosing between econ vs. marshall. Haas is better than Marshall program-wise but Marshall has a very strong alumni network. You can break into finance at either place but I have to give Haas the edge. It’s not a huge disparity though. </p>

<p>One good point you make is that you will be pre-Haas. I think the acceptance rate is around 58% for pre-Haas sophmores. But another point I want to make is even Berkeley’s econ isn’t guaranteed. You have to apply for it through L&S after passing 1 upper division econ class + calculus based statistics with I think a 2.7. Don’t quote me on the GPA, I can’t remember. The acceptance rate into Econ from L&S is around 60-65%. There is always the chance that you could not make it into Haas AND the econ program. This just speaks volumes about how good Berkeley is academically and only the best of the best get in. </p>

<p>At the end of the day, it comes down to what you make out of your education. You can go on to do big things in Marshall and drop out of pre-Haas and vice versa. I will openly admit that I am biased towards Berkeley. USC is beautiful though.</p>

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<p>So LA recruiters will recruit from Haas and Marshall whereas SF recruiters only recruit from Haas?</p>

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<p>If you want to save $$$ and experience Bay Area culture/climate, choose Berkeley.</p>

<p>If you like a big family atmosphere and LA, choose USC.</p>

<p>If you really like football, choose USC.</p>

<p>Major campus recruiters frequent both Cal and USC. However, Silicon Valley tech start-ups recruit from Cal, as it’s probably more cost-effective. Also, I’m assuming that faculty at both schools is top-notch, and at either college you can find diversity if you get outside your comfort zone. Asians tend to gravitate toward other Asians.</p>

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<p>In terms of undergrad business vs. grad business (MBA), I’d say that if you pursue business at the undergrad level, then the MBA isn’t as important (since the education at both levels is somewhat similar - and it’s more about the networking at that point - you may find out that you don’t need an MBA later).</p>

<p>In terms of opportunities, you will probably end up getting your first job in the region in which you go to school unless you go out of your way to seek employment elsewhere (through regional firms or by trying to transfer within larger ones). </p>

<p>In terms of the quality of firms recruiting at both places, I’d say for the most part it’ll be a lot of the same firms, but some of the most prestigious firms may only recruit at Berkeley and other top business schools/Ivy league schools. I’d contrast that with the intensely strong network at USC, and how alumni are extremely willing to help each other out. (At Berkeley, there’s still alumni support but you need to be more proactive in acquiring it.)</p>

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<p>Thanks for the info basketballkid.
I’ve heard budget cuts have affected Cal noticeably. I’ve also heard that a recent donation to USC is creating a new business facility?</p>

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<p>Budget cuts have had an impact on getting into classes to some degree, but if you plan your classes well (i.e. have a rough idea of which semesters you’d like to take certain required classes or fulfill certain requirements) and enroll intelligently (signing up for more important classes first), you won’t have a problem getting classes you need and will generally get into certain desired classes that fulfill requirements. If you do get into Haas (and generally, once you declare your major in general - but particularly for Haas), you will have greater priority for classes and this becomes less of an issue that it is as underclassmen (which isn’t really big to begin with).</p>

<p>That being said, I don’t know much about how budget cuts impact classes at USC, but their new building is an example of how they have more resources overall - likely (at least somewhat) better access to classes, counselors, nicer buildings, newer technology, etc. That’s where the private school advantages come into play. Though this is more a comparison between Cal and USC; the differences here between Haas and Marshall are probably less pronounced. </p>

<p>Put differently, Berkeley and Haas have better academics than USC and Marshall, but USC has better resources than Berkeley while Haas and Marshall are probably pretty close in terms of resources. However, at USC, you’re guaranteed a spot in Marshall, while at Berkeley you’re (1) not guaranteed at a spot at Haas and (2) will only spend 2 out of the 4 years though if you do get accepted.</p>

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<p>Hi rocnation,</p>

<p>Wow – reading your post was freaky (in a good way) because I was in the exact same situation last year. I remember making a pro/cons list between USC and Cal and was especially torn after having attended Explore USC (their marketing tactics are scarily amazing/effective!). In the end, I decided on Cal (with much reluctancy/hesitancy), but let me just tell you some of the factors I considered, including business-specific ones. After having chosen Cal, I’m so, so glad I did. But then again, it’s really all up to you, and the importance of different factors varies for everyone.</p>

<p>LOCATION/ATMOSPHERE: Like someone already mentioned, where you go to school determines a lot about where you will most likely work in the future. Envision yourself working in NorCal/Silicon Valley or SoCal/LA area. The two areas have completely different vibes, so consider that carefully, not only for work but for your 4 years as an undergrad.</p>

<p>JOB PROSPECTS: Now, I really want to not be Cal-biased, but from my experience, I’ve heard that the view most people/recruiters have on the two schools is that UC Berkeley > USC, by a long run – just look at any college ranking list. I know that everyone says that rankings don’t measure how “good” a college is, and of course they don’t. But you can’t deny that these popular notions of school rankings do count for something. Put yourself in the shoes of a hiring manager. If there were 2 candidates who were both very strong, hard-working, and seemingly equally qualified, would you choose the one who graduated from UC Berkeley or USC? Also, if you had gone to a foreign country and told someone you went to UC Berkeley, it’s more likely that they’ve heard of it, versus if you’d said USC. This isn’t a statistical fact, but I just wanted to share from personal experience. Of course, if you’re one of those people who always go above-and-beyond and “wow” everyone, then job prospects would be good for you regardless of where you go. I’m just saying that college prestige could help to boost your chances.</p>

<p>BUSINESS SCHOOLS: Though both have strong business schools, Haas seems to have a better undergrad business program. Personally, I’m applying for Haas this Fall and then going for Marshall’s graduate program after I work a few years, since Marshall’s graduate business school is supposedly much better than its undergrad one. Of course, there IS the risk of not getting into Haas, but what’s life without risks? That’s another reason why Haas is so much more “prestiged” over Marshall in terms of undergrad – the competitive factor. I think I would feel much more accomplished taking the risk and getting into Haas versus having just taken the easy route and gone to Marshall knowing my position was “safe” there. And if I don’t get into Haas, I can always just major in something else I’m interested in (there are tons of majors to choose from) and then apply for Marshall’s graduate business school/MBA program in the future.</p>

<p>Think of it in terms of how much you’d grow. For me, this is what I realized in the end: Yes, USC is a private school with more personal counseling and less rigorous academic standards – I think I could more easily skate by in a “laid back” environment like that. However, UC Berkeley’s academics and the students’ more independent natures would challenge me to GROW more and test my limits. It’s a risk, but it’s definitely a risk worth taking.</p>

<p>After coming here as a scared freshman not knowing what I was going to get myself into, I now have 0 regrets about my decision to come here. I have never been so transformed as I have during my time here at Cal so far – contrary to popular (and wrong) belief, it’s actually a LOT more diverse and laid-back than it seems. I’d previously thought it would be all anti-social, back-stabbing nerds who just want to climb to the top, but those kinds of people are definitely the minority here. I choose to surround myself with people who are supportive and know how to have fun while also working hard. They inspire me to push my limits and really stretch myself, and I really couldn’t be happier than I am now.</p>

<p>You also mentioned the Trojan Family network (that I also had considered before). The networking opportunities here at Cal are actually amazing, too – I’ve already talked to and made connections with so many company reps, even though I’m still a freshman, and I’m already on track for a summer internship working in my dream career field. But you do have to be an active job seeker, though I’m sure you’d also have to be one regardless of which school you go to.</p>

<p>But all in all, college IS really what you make of it, like everyone says. If you go to college with already-set paradigms about how your experience will be, then that mindset will lead you to live out such an experience. But if you approach it with an open mind, seek out all different kinds of opportunities, and reach out to the right people, then you’ll have an INCREDIBLE, life-changing college experience, without a doubt.</p>

<p>Best of luck in your decision! And sorry about the bias – looking back, these factors just seem a lot more clearer/obvious to me now than it once did, and I just wanted to share them in hopes that it can help give a different perspective to others stuck in a similar situation. And I guess school pride gets to you faster than you want it to :)</p>