Not a surprise, since colleges which are overflowing with applications already do not need to offer WUE discounts to attract additional applicants or matriculants. Colleges which may not be able to fill all of their space with in-state students + out-of-state students paying list price are those more likely to offer discounts (WUE or other scholarships) to attract more students to fill their space that would otherwise go unused and wasted.
I think avoiding debt is best if that is possible, but I don’t see the issue with borrowing some $$ to make college possible. I had to borrow a modest amount to afford college and I easily paid it off over 10 years. Kids who are borrowing what they can in their own name ($27k+/-) should be able to manage - that is less than what you are paying for a car these days and most people wouldn’t say don’t borrow money to get a car (which isn’t going to last as long as your education). That being said, I worry about kids who are borrowing significant amounts for undergrad because it is life limiting. It may preclude them from taking an interesting job because it doesn’t pay enough or keep them from being able to move into their own apartment etc.
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I agree, sometimes it is worth it to borrow, if the schooling they’re borrowing for gives them the ability to earn to pay it back, and if the experience at the more expensive school is most definitely worth borrowing. My advice to students is to limit their borrowing to the equivalent of one year’s income from their profession. So, a student getting an MD that will earn them 300K/yr could reasonably come out of all their schooling with that much debt - although they’ll have a heck of a time managing the payments during residency. But private college plus med school can cost 700K, so they still need to make choices about undergrad. A student getting a degree in sociology may not be able to get a job at all, and if so, for maybe 40K/yr. Tough to live on that, tougher to pay off 40K in student loans. Pity the foolish family who’ve cosigned PLUS loans for a private education at maybe 360K for a degree that won’t earn their child a living, not even for 150K in loans to cover 4 yrs at a public college for that.
Of course, this student’s having been able to come out of her in-state flagship debt-free also had to do with the fact that her parents had to have saved up much of the cost of attendance for her. For the student whose parents cannot/will not pay, and who doesn’t qualify for any fin aid, and who cannot win massive merit money, the only real option is the community college to 4 yr in-state college route, living at home if possible.
I disagree that’s the only option. My oldest two took about $60,000 in loans for their in state publics, my oldest has $8200 left in federal loans that she’s trying to decide if she should just pay them off out of savings or just make monthly payments (her car is 15 years old and if she pays off the loan and needs to buy a new to her car, her savings would be almost gone). I think her younger brother is done or almost done. The third will have a six figure loan after her DPT program. The plan is to move back, get a job in the nyc area, and pay back a lot in a couple of years. The fourth will have loans but I think she will have a pretty easy job finding employment in the actuary field here (she wants to come back here after graduation). My fifth won’t have a lot of loans, he commutes. I can definitely see how less challenging his education is at his less selective school (some here call in 13th grade), business major but really has no idea what he wants to do. I’m glad the others got to have different options. Those that chose OOS publics were awarded enough merit to bring costs close to in state.
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But you were willing to cosign those loans for them. Not everyone is.
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And we were released a year after graduation.
My two older kids were absolutely allergic to debt and they ended up choosing nearby flagships / state associated schools (UConn/Pitt) over NJ in-state Rutgers. But both got large OOS merit awards and so it came down closer to the same price (not quite). One took one loan but mostly because we wanted to spread out the cost with two in school at once.
The second one got massive merit scholarships to RPI and Fordham but in the end even $20-30k in loans was too much for him. He was thinking grad school. as it turns out he changed course and ended up in a lower paying field, so, for the best. Another thing to think about.
Rutgers would have fine, and we could have saved money, but its notorious for poor advising. The kids are basically on their own and I don’t think the kids even get routine advisors anymore, so that and other basic services were better in PA/CT. And Pitt is practically a private school (and I expect it will be again soon).
I’m definitely going to steal that phrase next time spouse and I aren’t seeing eye to eye on a big purchase.
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It’s a handy phrase. And Benadryl doesn’t help
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I know I am going against the collective view on this thread, but I feel that’s a gross over generalization.
I get that if more expensive colleges are not affordable, that’s a moot point. Then absolutely make the most of your state flagship education. That’s what I did.
But we shouldn’t ignore that in certain fields there is a different set of opportunities for the top students between a normal state flagship and a top 20 college. This is most common in fields such as Econ, Math, and Statistics. It is also true for the best students in CS (although people mistakenly disagree). For the students that take full advantage of those opportunities, the payback period is very short, even at full pay.
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It is also a overgeneralization to label middle-class families as “low income.” You do not have to be low income to be eligible for substantial need based financial aid at some private colleges or for some private colleges to be less than the COA of one’s state flagship. Obviously it depends on many factors (including the specific private college, the likelihood of admission, and the tuition at the flagship), but some middle-income students will still end up needing to borrow as much or more to attend their state flagship as they would to attend a private college that offers strong merit and/or need based aid.
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While that is true, relatively few students are admitted to top 20 schools, so that isn’t an option for most. The state flagship may not be right for everyone, but it is right for everyone to at least seriously consider their state flagship as an option.
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Completely agree with that.
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Depending on the state, the flagship may not be an option for most either, depending on its admission selectivity and how good it or the state is on financial aid for in-state students.
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“And Pitt is practically a private school (and I expect it will be again soon).”
Im curious. What is that refering to?
Probably, at least in part, referring to Pitt’s large endowment.
Pitt, Penn State, Temple and Lincoln are what’s called “state-related” universities in PA. They get to keep their endowment money, but in return for offering an in-state discount, they get some state funding.
They’re essentially quasi-private, with the in-state discount being pretty awful, along with the merit options. I mean, they look cheap compared with $80+k privates, but not compared with almost every other state’s public institutions.
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@Gatormama is wise.
So, it’s a few things.
- They used to be a private university and have been state-associated for several decades
- They have an endowment that is large even for private schools. Currently $5.5 billion as of June 2023.
- Some factions of the state legislature and not pleased that the college does research involving fetal cells and have threatened to remove the state associated funding
Thanks for the info. For NJ students, Pitt is a pretty attractive alternative to staying in-state if the student gets the high end of merit.