<p>Little mother, what field and do you go to visit?</p>
<p>It will take me 5 years to get my engineering degree. I was in CS for two years and switched to MechE. Since I switched majors late in the game I knew I would be in school longer. And since many MechE courses are offered only one semester of the year my time in undergrad was extended by a year. I also transfered to a different school after that two year period but it would take me an extra year even if I stayed at the original school. Many students at my current school take 5 or more years to graduate because most work jobs in order to pay for their tuition. And if they take the minimum full-time load it is impossible to graduate in less than 5 years.</p>
<p>As I'm seeing it:
Good reasons to take >4 yrs.
Working part time.
Co-op program.
Courses simply not available to you due to reg. problems (tho, if you knew in advance that lots of these occur and could choose otherwise, I'd go for a different school).</p>
<p>Questionable reasons:
Changed my major (depends on situation, many still make it).</p>
<p>Not going to pass my test:
"unwilling ... to get up before 9 or to take a Friday class"</p>
<p>I'm in the "4 years is on us, rest is on you" camp except for the "good reasons" list (which may grow).</p>
<p>Jmmom, Unfortunately my son was in the bad reasons to take >4 yrs crowd. I wasn't sure he had graduated until I saw the actual diploma. </p>
<p>I will tell you though that it is difficult that 4th year to stick to the "rest on you" when they need an extra term to graduate. At a $45K+ school, how the heck are they going to be able to get the money? If they borrow it, you'll have to cosign. And at that stage of the game, it makes no sense to transfer to a less expensive state school since you then have time/money trade offs. It's easy to talk at the beginning of the 4 year stint. At the end you are basically on your knees with some of these kids just wanting the dang degree. And then comes the hardest transition of all--out of your pocketbook. We fully expected S to have to work part time and had kind of expected him to get a teaching certificate. Did not expect him to find a job. And my H who is very pragmatic felt it was unrealistic to expect this. Even our directed kids who did well in college were going to go 4 more years to med school before they could earn a dime. That he found a job was a bonus. </p>
<p>A suggestion. Do an analysis of where the kid is junior year. Many of them do not think about grad requirements and maybe you want to instigate the credit count. That way any shortfalls may be made up in that summer between junior and senior year. And that junior year abroad has hurt several kids' 4 year graduation plans. You really do have to watch those credits for some kids. I did not as I was just grateful S was still in school. But I have seen some really unlikely kids get stuck for the extra semester or year, and a credits inventory would have taken care of that problem. Last term senior year is not the time to start the count.</p>
<p>I learned a little language lesson when we dropped my son off at Chicago. They referred to students as 1st year, 2nd year, 3rd year, and 4th year. I guess I wasn't tuned into the lingo yet that got rid of the "freshman" word. But it seems to me that this terminology helps to keep kids in line! I asked a student there what would you call someone who took a 5th year, and she answered "We'd call him a 5th year." I then asked what would you call someone who took 6 years, and she said "We don't have a word for that." </p>
<p>This told me that while it was not unusual for students to take 5 years, taking 6 years was rare or not sanctioned.</p>
<p>In reality, at Chicago, if a student takes 4 courses per quarter, she can finish in less than 4 years; most students take 3 or 4 per quarter. My son could have finished in less than 4 years but didn't see the point of cutting short his last year and found some courses in which he was interested.</p>
<p>jamimom - So often I find your posts helpful and wise. It's so true that flip remarks, "... the rest is on you" and the like, are easy in the abstract. Then, life happens. My OP qx was, I hope, hypothetical, because I fully expect S to be pretty goal-oriented. Also fully expect that he may need, or at least benefit from, a "consulting eye" on the credit count, distrib. reqs., etc. </p>
<p>Still, I think communicating the "4 and out" philosophy up front is a good idea for most kids.</p>
<p>Well, we'll see how accurate my expectations were 2-4 yrs. from now. Maybe I, like you, will just be glad to see that sheepskin. (Unrelated aside: we are helping our grandS, who is cut from wholly different cloth than our S, thru this process. Graduated HS '04, punted on the whole college issue. He was scheduled to finally take SAT yesterday - last chance for 2005 app to late deadline schools. We held our breath and - yes! - he went. One step at a time. </p>
<p>mack - I like that Chicago "doesn't have a word for that" re 6th year. My kind of place.</p>
<p>backhand- not every state has the same residency requirement. I know several that would not allow a freshman to simply take an apartment, get a drivers license and then be a resident.</p>
<p>Some states require you to live for at least a year without taking college classes. Several require two years of not being on the parents taxes. What state where you thinking of?</p>
<p>California Residency Information
To be considered a California resident for purposes of fees, an out-of-state student must have lived in California for more than one year preceding the residence determination date, relinquish residence in other states, show an intent to establish residency in California and demonstrate financial independence. Unmarried undergraduates from other states qualify as financially independent if they were not claimed by their parents or others as dependents for tax purposes for two preceding tax years and if their annual income is sufficient to meet their needs. All married students and unmarried graduate and professional students from other states qualify as financially independent if their parents or others have not claimed them as dependents for tax purposes for the preceding year.</p>
<p>Other out-of-state students who qualify as financially independent include veterans of the U.S. armed services, students with legal dependents other than a spouse, students with both parents deceased, students who are wards of the court, and students who are at least 24 years of age by December 31 of the year they seek to be classified as residents.</p>
<p>At some schools you can be a 5th year senior for a long, long time. When that thread about the student getting academically expelled from Guilford College hit this forum, I realized that I had no idea what my kids policies were regarding that. Some colleges will let your kid as long as the tuition is paid. I looked at some handbooks and was surprised at the variance. Some schools, the state ones it seems, will throw you out after a number of years because they need the seats.</p>
<p>University of Texas at Austin has established a flat fulltime tuition in some schools, and is hoping to implement it in all, due to problem with students taking 5, 6, 7, 8,..never to graduate. When you pay by the credit hour, and you like hanging around a cool campus, there is absolutely no reason to hurry up and graduate. (One reason for the low 6-year grad rate.) UT needs space for the new freshman, and is hoping this new tuition policy will spur some professional college students (always a student, never a graduee) to graduate.</p>
<p>University of Michigan also has a flat rate for a semester.</p>
<p>Backhandgrip--he's in design|media and I've visited him twice, for parents weekend his freshman year and on our D's college visit tour spring of his junior year. My H went to parents weekend his junior year. Needless to say, we don't see him as much as we'd like but stay in communication through AIM, e-mails, and phone calls.</p>
<p>Mr. B--Exactly what our son did. By a quirk of fate, his grandparents had given him savings bonds starting from his birth and they were all in his name. We lamented that it would work against him in terms of finaid qualification but were happy to see that the bonds, plus his work earnings, proved his financial independence. (He was making about $9-12k/year working part-time during the school year and full-time during the summer.) As I said, we did not support him financially nor did we declare him on our taxes for more than two years (and still don't). He was very surprised when UCLA approved his application for residency, but he definitely intends to stay out there--that's where the work is.</p>